Bruce Jenner's Début as "Caitlyn"

  • Thread starter Thread starter DakiniArtist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Bruised_Reed said:
So people with mental disabilities and disorders have a choice?

There are a lot of invisible disorders as well. I live with depression and anxiety; the former appears to be something that runs in the family. These are not my choice, either but affect my life in significant ways. I can choose how I deal with them and for me it’s easy because there are effective therapies, including drugs, that help. Transgenderism isn’t really understood and not as easily treated. Transitioning is an option that may save a transgender person’s life. Just knowing it’s a option tomorrow probably keeps some from offing themselves today.
Click to expand...
You have a choice as to how you deal with it. Depression runs rampant in my family as well. The simplest solution to my depression would be to blow my brains out, but I hardly think that God would support that decision. Jenner’s choice would be to seek medicinal or psychological help to let him live with his disorder, or mutilate himself and turn himself into a “woman”. Which choice do you think God is most likely to approve?
 
If a man identifies as Napoleon, we put him in an asylum, but if the same man identifies as a women, we are all supposed to talk about how brave he is. I don’t get it. He’s no more a woman than he is Napoleon, but I’m supposed to accommodate one delusion, but not the other. I don’t get it.
 
pete_29 said:
You have a choice as to how you deal with it. Depression runs rampant in my family as well. The simplest solution to my depression would be to blow my brains out, but I hardly think that God would support that decision. Jenner’s choice would be to seek medicinal or psychological help to let him live with his disorder, or mutilate himself and turn himself into a “woman”. Which choice do you think God is most likely to approve?
Click to expand...
He has sought psychological help. Lots of transgender people have. What other therapies worked for them?
 
**
pete_29 said:
So if I were born a homicidal maniac, I should just start killing people because my brain says it’s alright. God creates us. God creates us male and female. To decide to physically make ourselves into something other than what God created, no matter what our brains tell us, has to be an affront to God’s will. More than that, it makes ourselves God.
Click to expand...
Yes,you just hit on the crux of this and other cultural issues we are facing.We are a culture of Demi gods,we know best,so and so on…
 
ucfengr said:
If a man identifies as Napoleon, we put him in an asylum, but if the same man identifies as a women, we are all supposed to talk about how brave he is. I don’t get it. He’s no more a woman than he is Napoleon, but I’m supposed to accommodate one delusion, but not the other. I don’t get it.
Click to expand...
Actually, someone who thinks he’s Napoleon would not be put in an asylum but he might spend a short time in a mental health unit, unless he can be put on the right kind of meds right away. The treatment for that is pretty straight forward but the effectiveness is variable. There seems to be a lot of co-morbidity when it comes to mental health.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
He has sought psychological help. Lots of transgender people have. What other therapies worked for them?
Click to expand...
There is no proven therapy for gender dysphoria.

And further, Catholics do not believe in consequentialism. Unless we are sure that God doesn’t want transgender people to have their genitals, breasts, etc., and that has in no way been established, SRS is justified by consequentialism.
 
Havard said:
There is no proven therapy for gender dysphoria.

And further, Catholics do not believe in consequentialism. Unless we are sure that God doesn’t want transgender people to have their genitals, breasts, etc., and that has in no way been established, SRS is justified by consequentialism.
Click to expand...
That’s what I thought.
 
I just saw this posted on FB:
And people with a genetic mosaic possess XX chromosomes in some cells and XY in others. So how do we determine if they’re male or female? Hint: Don’t say that it depends on the chromosomal makeup of the majority of their cells, since women with more than 90 per cent XY genetic material have given birth.
Click to expand...
theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/think-gender-comes-down-to-x-and-y-chromosomes-think-again/article24811543/

So how do we determine if someone with a genetic mosaic is male or female?
 
jaxster99 said:
“Transgenderism” is most definitely against Catholic teachings and, of course, Catholics are called to treat all, including those from the LGBT community, with compassion. Below, I have included some responses from Catholic institutions (along with references to the Catechism & previous statements by the Pope) –

Catholic hospital’s Response to being asked to perform transgender surgery –
“Catholic hospitals are not required to perform abortions, and neither should they be forced to perform transgender operations. There are some medical procedures that run counter to Catholic moral teaching, and they include direct euthanasia, embryonic stem cell experimentation and cloning. If Catholic hospitals are denied the right to proscribe such operations, it effectively nullifies their right to remain Catholic.”

Article by Jason Adkins –
The truth is that God has created us male and female and has made us with a soul and body that are inextricably linked to one another — their union forms a single nature. The body is not merely a shell encompassing my spirit or “real self,” which many who support the new gender theory believe. The body is, indeed, the physical manifestation of my personhood. It is truly me, along with my soul, and my identity as male or female is integral to who I am as a human person (Catechism of the Catholic Church 362-68).

As Pope-emeritus Benedict XVI noted in an important address to the Roman Curia in 2012, a rejection of the reality that we are created male and female is, even if unwittingly, a rejection of the Creator and his creation.

From Article by Anne Hendershott –
Catholics are called to treat all—including all within the LGBT community—with compassion. Yet the Church maintains that people may not change what Pope Benedict XVI has called “their very essence.” In a speech at the Vatican last December, Pope Benedict directly addressed transgender issues by cautioning Catholics about “destroying the very essence of the human creature through manipulating their God-given gender to suit their sexual choices.” Pope Benedict warned that “when freedom to be creative becomes the freedom to create oneself, then necessarily the Maker himself is denied and ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God.”
Click to expand...
You have conflated homosexuality and transgenderism, which is beyond problematic. The issue of whether sex reassignment surgery is a sin has already been addressed in this thread and again, the Church has not stated that it is definitively a sin. The curious question is why so many are starved for the Church to do so…
 
Murmurs said:
For reasons none of us - none of us - can understand - some people are born blind. This is something human beings have for thousands of years had the vocabulary to articulate. More recently, we now have a vocabulary allowing people to articulate that they don’t feel attraction towards members of the opposite sex (homosexual feeling is a very different thing from homosexual acts) - and more recently still, allowing people to articulate that the gender they feel - they know - themselves to be - doesn’t match their physical sex. … It has nothing to do with God …
Click to expand...
Being blind is not the same as being transgender – just as being African-American is not the same thing as same-sex attraction. Being Blind or being African-American are not sinful states, nor are they by choice. Also, not having an attraction to the opposite sex is not a problem, nor is it sinful – it may mean God has given one the grace to live a single & chaste life. You say: “It has nothing to do with God”? Our lives and the way we choose to live have EVERYTHING to do with God.

Modification of one’s body is a SERIOUS SIN. “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?” (1 Corinthians 6:19). “Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reason, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.” (Catholic Catechism, item 2297). One’s body is not one’s own to be changed at will.
 
gracepoole said:
You have conflated homosexuality and transgenderism, which is beyond problematic. The issue of whether sex reassignment surgery is a sin has already been addressed in this thread and again, the Church has not stated that it is definitively a sin. The curious question is why so many are starved for the Church to do so…
Click to expand...
Umm … Yes the Church has spoken on it. Several Popes have spoken about it. It is covered in the Catechism. I could tell you again and again why I’m convinced that it’s a sin against God, but I suspect anyone who is unclear would benefit from asking the Lord themselves. I recommend spending 1 hour in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and ask the Lord yourself. Trust He loves you. Trust He will make it very clear.
 
jaxster99 said:
Umm … Yes the Church has spoken on it. Several Popes have spoken about it. It is covered in the Catechism. I could tell you again and again why I’m convinced that it’s a sin against God, but I suspect anyone who is unclear would benefit from asking the Lord themselves. I recommend spending 1 hour in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and ask the Lord yourself. Trust He loves you. Trust He will make it very clear.
Click to expand...
Really? The CCC definitively calls sex reassignment surgery a sin? Do tell – I’m all ears. Please provide the specific portion to which you’re referring.

(And I appreciate your “suggestions” regarding my spiritual life but this really isn’t the place for this sort of thing. It’s a thread in World News. If I post in the Prayer Intentions section of the forum, feel free to suggest all you like.)
 
gracepoole said:
Really? The CCC definitively calls sex reassignment surgery a sin? Do tell – I’m all ears. Please provide the specific portion to which you’re referring.

(And I appreciate your “suggestions” regarding my spiritual life but this really isn’t the place for this sort of thing. It’s a thread in World News. If I post in the Prayer Intentions section of the forum, feel free to suggest all you like.)
Click to expand...
Grace - Truly, I don’t mean to offend. My prior posts already have cited the CCC references. True, they don’t list every specific type of surgery that qualifies as “amputation, mutilation and sterilization”. Anyway, I don’t think anything I say will convince you anyway. The Lord will guide you on this issue if you wish Him to do so - you need only ask Him. I am hetero-sexual and many years ago became very confused about the sinfulness of pre-marital sex between unmarried persons. I collected lots of convincing evidence on both sides of the issue but, honestly, until I asked the Lord myself, I wasn’t convinced. I was believing what I wanted to believe. The Lord made it very clear to me when I asked Him myself.
 
gracepoole said:
Really? The CCC definitively calls sex reassignment surgery a sin? Do tell – I’m all ears. Please provide the specific portion to which you’re referring.

(And I appreciate your “suggestions” regarding my spiritual life but this really isn’t the place for this sort of thing. It’s a thread in World News. If I post in the Prayer Intentions section of the forum, feel free to suggest all you like.)
Click to expand...
SRS is altering or destroying something that God created.Tell me how God would be alright with that. The only way to try and justify it is to say that God made a mistake, and like I said before, if you do that, God is no longer God
 
jaxster99 said:
Grace - Truly, I don’t mean to offend. My prior posts already have cited the CCC references. True, they don’t list every specific type of surgery that qualifies as “amputation, mutilation and sterilization”. Anyway, I don’t think anything I say will convince you anyway. The Lord will guide you on this issue if you wish Him to do so - you need only ask Him. I am hetero-sexual and many years ago became very confused about the sinfulness of pre-marital sex between unmarried persons. I collected lots of convincing evidence on both sides of the issue but, honestly, until I asked the Lord myself, I wasn’t convinced. I was believing what I wanted to believe. The Lord made it very clear to me when I asked Him myself.
Click to expand...
We’ve been through this. See this post, this post, this post, this post, this post, and this post.
 
Acts of Faith
I went to church with Bruce Jenner. Here’s what Caitlyn Jenner taught me about Jesus.

By Josh Cobia June 4 at 6:32 PM

Kris Jenner, Bruce Jenner, Kourtney Kardashian, Khloe Kardashian and Kim Kardashian. (Charley Gallay/Getty Images)

This opinion piece was written by Josh Cobia, a musician and the pastor of music and community at Resonate Church in Santa Monica, Calif.

When I was a budding 21-year-old, I took a job at a church in Calabasas. It was a brand-new church meeting in a movie theater, and as I relocated to Los Angeles for my first service, I learned the Kardashian family were major supporters of the church from its infancy. At the time I had to Google their names to figure out who this celebrity family was. They had previously attended a much larger church in the area and met a very charismatic and prolific pastor there. He ended up leaving the church, thinking he would never go back to ministry.

It was Bruce Jenner who found this pastor three years later as he was working at Starbucks.

Jenner searched this pastor out and told him that wife Kris had been trying to find him and would love to talk with him. The pastor kindly received the request, and upon meeting, Kris Jenner told the pastor that they wanted to start a new church in their home town of Calabasas with him as the pastor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top