millennialjournal.com/2017/06/21/building-a-bridge-between-the-church-and-the-lgbt-community-an-interview-with-fr-james-martin/Cardinal Kevin Farrell, Prefect of the Vatican’s Dicastery for Laity, Family and Life, called it “a welcome and much-needed book that will help bishops, priests, pastoral associates, and all church leaders, more compassionately minister to the LGBT community.” Bishop Robert McElroy of San Diego said it “provides us the language, perspective, and sense of urgency to undertake the arduous but monumentally Christlike task of replacing a culture of alienation with a culture of merciful inclusion.”
He alienated the dogmatic and legalistic religious and secular power structures at the time. Not the average joes just trying to live their lives.Merciful inclusion? Jesus alienates someone on every page of the gospels. If everyone (or more accurately, everyTHING) was so “mercifully included”, He never would have been crucified. Where do these insane ideas come from? Seminaries? Who decided that “alienation” was the greatest evil?
The point is though, that some of these people might not be living in sin after having gotten surgery, if they have gone that far. Your post seems absolute when applied to those who dress up but have not had surgery. Building bridges without inviting sin. I understand the need for compassion but the need to apply without renouncing our own faith at the same time.People who persist in committing mortal sins make it difficult to “build a bridge”.
They need to repent and to change their behavior.
We can pray for them to repent and change their behavior.
And that’s about it.
For a sin to be “mortal” requires grave matter, full knowledge, and full consent of the will. A member of the LGBGQT community that is not and has never been Catholic can not even remotely have “full knowledge”. Full knowledge does not only require knowing that this is what the Church teaches, he or she has to understand why. In other words, that person needs catechesis. How one is to catechize a non-Catholic from one’s high mountain remains a mystery to me.People who persist in committing mortal sins make it difficult to “build a bridge”.
They need to repent and to change their behavior.
We can pray for them to repent and change their behavior.
And that’s about it.
One cannot participate in Sacramental life unless one is in a state of grace or open to the idea of being.For a sin to be “mortal” requires grave matter, full knowledge, and full consent of the will. A member of the LGBGQT community that is not and has never been Catholic can not even remotely have “full knowledge”. Full knowledge does not only require knowing that this is what the Church teaches, he or she has to understand why. In other words, that person needs catechesis. How one is to catechize a non-Catholic from one’s high mountain remains a mystery to me.
The Church is not a resort for the righteous but a hospital for sick souls. All of our souls are sick since the Original Sin. If we are to close the door to the hospital, how can we ever hope to put the LGBQT on the path of God and righteousness?
Monastics know that embarking on the monastic life does not mean they have found sanctity. They embark on it to find sanctity and the Church is no different. As one monk put it to an oblate “I didn’t enter the monastery because I am perfect; I entered because I am such a terrible sinner that without the structure of monastic life, I would never be able to reach God”.
Of course they should repent. But they need to know why they should do so, and to know that, they need to be evangelized and catechized. It’s a long journey started by throwing open the doors to the Church and making them just as welcome in the pew as the next sinner, be it a tax cheat, a thief, a philanderer, an alcoholic, a porn addict, a masturbator or whatever, in other words, as welcome as all of us who are sinners. Open the doors to the beauty of sacramental grace and then, perhaps, they will have a real chance at healing and repentance. Telling them to “straighten up” before allowing them in ensures that they will always be left on the outside and never have a chance at tasting God.
And if we do that, then the stain of turning away a soul from God rests as much, if not more, on our own soul than on the soul of the rejected sinner.
Which is why the doors have to be open.One cannot participate in Sacramental life unless one is in a state of grace or open to the idea of being.
He alienated those who couldn’t accept His command to eat His Flesh, and they abandoned Him. He alienated the young man who wanted to follow without renouncing his many possessions. He alienated the one who wanted to bury his father before following. He wasn’t interested in letting average joes live their lives. Joseph was quite literally an average joe trying to live his life, and look at what Jesus did to HIS life. He also ripped the apostles from their average joe lives. He alienated everyone, really. Even the Samaritan woman at the well. The ones who followed Him were the ones who ALLOWED themselves to be alienated, and didn’t set conditions like, “if You mercifully include me and let me do what I want and keep what I want, I’ll follow You.”He alienated the dogmatic and legalistic religious and secular power structures at the time. Not the average joes just trying to live their lives.
Wrong. Go back and read the gospels completely, rather than selectively.Compassion and inclusion are always good things. The only people Jesus went around “alienating” on a regular basis were the uncharitable persons and the hypocrites who liked to point out how everybody else was more sinful than themselves.
I see no indication that Joseph was forced or “alienated” to take up the life he willingly chose with Mary and Jesus. Furthermore, his actions to the extent they are documented appear to be those of a loving husband and father. Yes, Joseph and Mary’s lives had some upheaval because of Jesus, but you’re speaking about it like their lives were totally wrecked when in fact both of them chose to accept the will of God and were enriched by their role in Jesus’ life and Jesus’ presence in their life.He wasn’t interested in letting average joes live their lives. Joseph was quite literally an average joe trying to live his life, and look at what Jesus did to HIS life.
Exactly. There are those who choose to be there, and those who don’t. Pretending that everyone is on equal footing is just that…pretending. Joseph and Mary’s lives were wrecked because they CHOSE to allow them to be wrecked. That is the awesome gift of freedom that we all have. We are all free to choose to follow Jesus’ way or our own way. And Jesus’ way is quite narrow. It is not all-inclusive, as this wayward traitor priest would have you believe in his interview. Members of the “LGBT community” CHOOSE to be where they are, and there are also those with same sex attraction who CHOOSE to follow Jesus rather than their own attractions. Not all choices are equal and worthy of affirmation.I see no indication that Joseph was forced or “alienated” to take up the life he willingly chose with Mary and Jesus. Furthermore, his actions to the extent they are documented appear to be those of a loving husband and father. Yes, Joseph and Mary’s lives had some upheaval because of Jesus, but you’re speaking about it like their lives were totally wrecked when in fact both of them chose to accept the will of God and were enriched by their role in Jesus’ life and Jesus’ presence in their life.
Edited to add, same for the Apostles…they CHOSE to be there.
So how do we get them to want to choose Jesus?Exactly. There are those who choose to be there, and those who don’t. Pretending that everyone is on equal footing is just that…pretending. Joseph and Mary’s lives were wrecked because they CHOSE to allow them to be wrecked. That is the awesome gift of freedom that we all have. We are all free to choose to follow Jesus’ way or our own way. And Jesus’ way is quite narrow. It is not all-inclusive, as this wayward traitor priest would have you believe in his interview. Members of the “LGBT community” CHOOSE to be where they are, and there are also those with same sex attraction who CHOOSE to follow Jesus rather than their own attractions. Not all choices are equal and worthy of affirmation.
Edited to add, I find it absolutely hysterical that you have a Chesterton quote in your sig, and you’re here trying to sell the “compassion and inclusion are always good things” fallacy. Maybe it’s time to go back and read “Orthodoxy” and “Heretics”.
Step 1: Present an authentic image of Him. Tell the truth. Be clear that the only way to follow Him is to conform ourselves to Him, and cease spreading the gibberish that we can conform HIM to fit ourselves. Stop using the word “compassion” in vain and learn the true meaning of the word.So how do we get them to want to choose Jesus?
Apparently quite a few in the church. The bishop who commented in the OP is the Bishop in charge of CA if I’m not mistaken.Merciful inclusion? Jesus alienates someone on every page of the gospels. If everyone (or more accurately, everyTHING) was so “mercifully included”, He never would have been crucified. Where do these insane ideas come from? Seminaries? Who decided that “alienation” was the greatest evil?
To be kind to those one meets and to pray for them.So how do we get them to want to choose Jesus?