Bums or Saints?

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I myself am torn on this. A few years ago, I myself ended up in a homeless shelter. I was out and back on my feet in a few months. However, from living with them I can say you have two types of homeless beggar types: The first just has horrible mental issues or just really bad fortune and they end up in that situation because, well life threw them a curve ball, or the second, the kind that just suck at being responsible. I know two who I lived with were the latter. One was on drugs, Potpourri and weed. He just smoked all the time. Then he got a job and I was like “Hey awesome, good work.” but he used all his job money for more drugs. Another was unemployed and refused to work. He was offered a job as a janitor but claimed the work of a custodian was “below him” and he never took the job.

But there are others as mentioned above that are truly just from bad circumstance, that want to get back on their feet but have no job offers, have to spend what little money they have keeping a phone on in case they get a job offer (a shelter may not allow personal calls to its residence), spend much time washing clothes at laundromats because the shelter kicks them out in the snow at day break until 4 PM and they become covered by salt from the road, who while in said shelter are susceptible to contracting every kind of airborne illness from cramped quarters, or who, and I’m not kidding, lose what part time jobs they have because if they break curfew the shelter may kick them out and they may have to sleep in the cold.

It’s a conundrum. Wish there was an answer.
Thank you for posting this. Obviously you know what you are talking about. It is hard to know what to do, but actually I think churches can be a large part of the answer. Ours has people volunteer to serve at a church-sponsered homeless center, and people also donate food, clothing and money to the homeless.

I’m glad you are back on your feet again. Some people just need a helping hand for a while, so I suppose even if only 1 out of 20 get the stregnth to put their lives back together with assistance, it is worth it.
 
And what is the difference between giving someone on the money and giving them a meal at the church? If one encourages homelessness, doesn’t the other?

I have never understood why one type of handout is okay and another isn’t other than the amount of control the giver has on what the receiver does with the handout.

BTW, anything can be traded for money or cigarettes or booze or whatever is not approved of. (I speak from personal experience of dealing with my brother) . Unless one watches the person eat the food, one can’t be sure it wasn’t traded for something one might not approve of. Plus, the danger in giving food is that the person’s digestive system may not be able to handle what is given them (lactose intolerant, nut allergies, etc) , they may not have good teeth (apples and carrots are hard to eat if your teeth aren’t strong), they may have no place to store it until they eat it, most don’t have the most sanitary of environment to keep unwrapped food.
 
I agree with the OP. I give money to the homeless and don’t feel it’s my place to ask them what they are intending to spend it on. They are in a bad situation and if they need a pack of cigarettes, so be it.

We should treat people with respect. If you gave a friend a gift of money, you wouldn’t also give him a list of what he shouldn’t buy with it.
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I don’t think it’s our place to dictate what they do with the money, honestly. Charity is a two-way street. By selflessly donating money we could use for other things to people, it raises us up, as well, and reorients our minds.

In the same vein, I rarely lend thoughts to whether or not the person “deserves it” or will spend it wisely, honestly. To me, they are engaging in one of the most humble acts of humility out there: to willingly tell your community, “I need help and can’t do it on my own. Please help me.” Regardless of their conditions or habits or addictions, we should hold the very act of “begging” as one of the most perfect acts of humility out there, and that they are indeed incredibly blessed in Heaven for being able to do so.

How many of us would be able to sit on a street corner and look up at a person walking by in fancy clothes and ask them to spare some money? Ultimately, we cannot know what they will spend the money on (unless we give them food, which I most often do-- I carry apples and other long-lasting fruit, cereal bars, etc. around with me when I can).

The question is whether or not we have the right to withhold our charity based on our own assessment of their sinfulness, bad habits, or potentially harmful behavior. If God did the same, would any of us be granted grace at any time in our sinful, rebellious lives?
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I worked for years in a downtown Atlanta office building. At that time, my ‘quick’ criteria for giving alms was that they must stink and truly appear homeless. Even a homeless alcoholic must eat from time to time.

I no longer give cloths to Goodwill, when they became for profit, unless I don’t have the time to do anything else. What I like to do is drop them off in front of a tent city or near a soup kitchen. This way someone gets it free of charge, someone who might not be able to document his or her need to a bureaucracy. I was standing in line at a pharmacy and two homeless people were trying to negotiate with the pharmacist about the cost of a drug vs. what they had in pocket. One homeless man asked if I could help, and I did.

I can only give cloths now, as I live from paycheck to paycheck. I am lucky to keep my lights on, as I am taking care of someone who can’t work right now. I have been praying for my situation to change, and it is, little by little. I look forward to the time I can resume helping even more than I once did. I always find doing so makes me feel very blessed.

Even if we give, and that gift is misused, we have still done our part.
 
This is not the only time Father has shown bias against the homeless. And no, I don’t think that what he said was right. It’s his opinion, but many will take it as Church doctrine that we are not to give money to the poor. Trust me, we have put up with a lot of negativity from this particular priest. We love him and pray for him, but he seems to have a very worldly spirit.

Edit: I certainly don’t mean to “disrespect” the priest, but it’s ,ore that I have seen this from many, many priests in this day and age, as though the spirit of Mammon and the Masonic mindset of greed and anti-Christianity is pervading deep into the Church. I’m more frustrated at the state of the Church as a whole, than at my particular parish Priest.
Disagreeing with a priest is not, in my opinion uncharitable. I could give only just a few examples, but I won’t as it would serve no constructive purpose. I really like and love most of the Priests I have met, and that is enough.

You must do what you feel is right. We are ALL called to minister the poor and the downtrodden. How you run your ministry is between you and God.
 
I worked for years in a downtown Atlanta office building. At that time, my ‘quick’ criteria for giving alms was that they must stink and truly appear homeless. Even a homeless alcoholic must eat from time to time.

I no longer give cloths to Goodwill, when they became for profit, unless I don’t have the time to do anything else. What I like to do is drop them off in front of a tent city or near a soup kitchen. This way someone gets it free of charge, someone who might not be able to document his or her need to a bureaucracy. I was standing in line at a pharmacy and two homeless people were trying to negotiate with the pharmacist about the cost of a drug vs. what they had in pocket. One homeless man asked if I could help, and I did.

I can only give cloths now, as I live from paycheck to paycheck. I am lucky to keep my lights on, as I am taking care of someone who can’t work right now. I have been praying for my situation to change, and it is, little by little. I look forward to the time I can resume helping even more than I once did. I always find doing so makes me feel very blessed.

Even if we give, and that gift is misused, we have still done our part.
God bless you for your works of charity
 
Disagreeing with a priest is not, in my opinion uncharitable. I could give only just a few examples, but I won’t as it would serve no constructive purpose. I really like and love most of the Priests I have met, and that is enough.

You must do what you feel is right. We are ALL called to minister the poor and the downtrodden. How you run your ministry is between you and God.
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Saints looking to the inspiring Saint Benedict Joseph Labre as patron saint of homeless. Saints I do say!
 
I was at Mass recently, and during the homily Father was talking about the homeless. He said that we should help them, but never give them money. He said giving the homeless money was not helping them, but enabling them to stay homeless. My wife and I were discussing it later, quite offended, as we often give money to the homeless.

The first thing that came to my mind was a homeless friend of ours who works very hard at the labor hall. For various reasons involving the pay rate, cost of fast food (being homeless he has no refrigerator or stove or pantry), cost of laundry at the laundromat, etc, he sometimes doesn’t gave bus fare to get to work or keep his appointments. So we help him with bus fare. I thought, “what gives Father the nerve to say we’re not helping?” Does he know everyone’s situation? Who made him judge of a person’s motives or needs? He never even speaks to homeless people that I know of. It’s easy for him to live in the nice house his parishioners pay for, drive the nice car his flock bought him, wear the nice clothes someone else paid for, and then presume to speak so callously of people he doesn’t know from Adam.

My first impulse was to ask him if he would tell Holy Father Francis the same thing. The Pope is known for sneaking out at night and giving money to Rome’s homeless. Or what does he think of the Holy Father’s namesake? Saint Francis left his wealth and moved to the streets and started begging. He took no vows and joined no order. He chose to be homeless. What if the person I’m giving money to chooses to live in poverty? Is it different because they don’t take vows and get the church’s approval to be beggars? I cannot believe the lack of charity in this servant of God, to say I’m wrong to give my money to the homeless in the evil days, especially in capitalist America, where the rich are saints, the poor are devils, banks are churches and money is god. Has the evil of capitalism seeped so far into our Church that one is considered unworthy of respect because they are poor, and obviously not making a profit for anyone (or maybe it’s that they aren’t giving large sums to the Church?)
I am not sure how to do this politely, but I think you need an attitude check. You speak about one instance of giving money to someone who is working and to whom you give bus fare, and from that you seem to find criticism of the priest concerning a topic which, from the post, indicates you have little or no real factual knowledge.

In the past I served on the board of directors of the Matt Talbot Center here in Portland. The center was there for housing the homeless and was focused particularly on alcoholics. Since that time, homelessness has increased, and is a serious problem.

Studies have been done showing that people standing out by traffic signs, etc (that is, along highways and intersections) average about $30 per hour - not gross, but net, since they are not paying any taxes.

There is no doubt that there are among them some who are simply down on their luck.

There are also a very high degree of individuals, including but not limited to those, who suffer from mental illness/disease, alcoholism, drug addiction or a combination of those issues. Giving them a dollar, or a five or ten, makes people feel good, but it all too often does not help the individual, but rather goes to their habit.

Taking umbrage with the priest because of an isolated circumstance indicates, IMHO, an underlying issue and I am not exactly sure what it is; but I can guarantee from my background and experience that the priest is correct; handing out money to most of those down on their luck does way more harm than good, your individual experience with one person not to the contrary.

Don’t get me wrong - I support what you do with that individual. What I absolutely do not support is your going from that one instance to some sort of universal, with an apparent lack of knowledge as to what is actually and really going on.

Soup kitchens, drop-in centers, job training, drug and alcohol counseling, clothing and emergency food centers, and host of other projects and programs are trying to treat the needs instead of simply taking the route of a feel-good act which is so often misguided. And all of those programs take money, time, donations, and bodies to make the projects work.

Take, for example, meth. It is a scourge of astounding damage; one should take a look at pictures of people who have become meth addicts - the aging process and the speed with which it occurs is beyond astounding. So a person sees someone on the sidewalk begging; that potential donor doesn’t know if they are a meth addict but they look physically in serious shape, and in sympathy the donor gives them a buck, or two, or five. And 20 or thirty people behind you, someone does the same, and both of you are supporting that habit, which as sure as I am writing, is going to kill them soon. The same could be said for crack, or heroin, or alcohol, with perhaps just less speed towards death.

No, not every begging person is an addict or suffering from mental issues. And neither are most donors equipped to sort out who needs help and who doesn’t.

And instead of taking umbrage with our priests who in a short homily are trying to impart valid and true knowledge, we need to ask for more information. A knee-jerk response, founded on an isolated example is a poor way of determining if Father may actually know what he is taking about. We tend to think we “know” a lot, when actually, we know, in truth, very little.
 
I must respectfully disagree with several of your observations and experiences but I will stick to a few observations of yours mentioned above. $ to the poor and homeless is very much needed in order to buy things they may not be able to purchase otherwise. What they do with it shouldn’t be our concern let that be the Lords. We are called to do Charity. Why do we put such a burden on those who have very little?? Give and let God do the rest. Your attitude towards the poor I find unhealthy and unrealistic. You have looked at this issue from the top and make your judgments but at the bottom your clueless. Once again with all do respect, you come across what I have called homeless haters. Those that bring this issue up front only to destroy a Christ centered work of charity. Christ in the New Testament acknowledges and affirms the poor and their needs time and time again. If you read scripture ask yourself why you cannot see that! As to the problem with the priest. Many priest can be innocently unaware on homelessness and the extreme poverty.
 
otjm;12525333:
I must respectfully disagree with several of your observations and experiences but I will stick to a few observations of yours mentioned above. $ to the poor and homeless is very much needed in order to buy things they may not be able to purchase otherwise. What they do with it shouldn’t be our concern let that be the Lords. We are called to do Charity. Why do we put such a burden on those who have very little?? Give and let God do the rest. Your attitude towards the poor I find unhealthy and unrealistic. You have looked at this issue from the top and make your judgments but at the bottom your clueless. Once again with all do respect, you come across what I have called homeless haters. Those that bring this issue up front only to destroy a Christ centered work of charity. Christ in the New Testament acknowledges and affirms the poor and their needs time and time again. If you read scripture ask yourself why you cannot see that! As to the problem with the priest. Many priest can be innocently unaware on homelessness and the extreme poverty.
And you have what experience working with the poor? And you have spent how many years doing so? And because I support organizations who take in the addicted and work with them for treatment I am a “homeless hater”?

How many boards of directors have you served on? How many hours have you logged in a soup kitchen? You have a law degree and you have actually represented these folks? And worked with the associations who help them? You have served how long in a food pantry, you have spent how many hours working in a homeless shelter? You have visited how any squatters camps helping to bring absolutely baseline health care to them?

When professionals who work with the addicted/homeless say the same thing I say - folks who have worked with them for month upon month upon year after year, and say what I am telling you, and you have the temerity to say "Give and let God do the rest’, you are the enabler for those you have donated to, to sink further and further into their addiction; you don’t care when they later die of an overdose they bought with the money you so gladly and blithely gave them. You are nowhere to be found; you left the scene with warm emotions and not a clue. When they crash from the excess of drugs or alcohol in a squatter’s camp, having used the money you gave, you are not there to help; you are in your nice warm residence patting yourself on the back for giving the money that is driving them closer to the brink.

Frankly, I don’t care what you think of me or how you judge me, because I have been on the line. And it is crystal clear you have not.

There is a term for it - it is called cheap grace.

I will challenge you. Spend part of your free time for 12 months - a year, working in a soup kitchen, or in a homeless shelter, or at a food bank, or at a recovery center for alcoholics or drug addicts, or any of the other service agencies which work with the homeless. Put in your time every other week, or every week - most of them are begging for more volunteer work.

Then, after you have done that, come back, and you can then criticize me.

And I will issue another challenge - go read the story of the Good Samaritan. He didn’t hand the person a dollar and then walk on - at least, he didn’t in the New Testament I read. He bound up the victims wounds; he took him to shelter and paid for the shelter, and committed himself to further payments to those entrusted with the victim’s care.

You don’t have to tell me what you did - you just have to do it.
 
WilT;12526562:
And you have what experience working with the poor?

"Give and let God do the rest’, you are the enabler for those you have donated to, to sink further and further into their addiction; you don’t care when they later die of an overdose they bought with the money you so gladly and blithely gave them.

I will challenge you. Spend part of your free time for 12 months - a year, working in a soup kitchen, or in a homeless shelter, or at a food bank, or at a recovery center for alcoholics or drug addicts, or any of the other service agencies which work with the homeless. Put in your time every other week, or every week - most of them are begging for more volunteer work.

You don’t have to tell me what you did - you just have to do it.
I’ve been in your challenge close to 15 yrs. now not only as a person in the medical field but in the frontlines of the homeless and the poor. You quote scripture but allow me one: The Wedding of Canaan. When Christ turned water into wine during the festivity, he didn’t call out THOSE WITH ALCOHOL ADDICTION CANNOT COME TO DRINK FOR IT’S ONLY FOR THE SOBER AND THE SINNLESS. I don’t recall Him stating anything like that so why would you? Give them what they need. If its money so be it. Give it. It’s not for us to chose how they will spend it. If you have so doubts recite some scriptures along with your gift if your uncomfortable. If Alcohol makes his life just a bit better and tolerable so be it. Better yet if you can only offer them charitableness follow them throughout the whole charitable process. Perhaps you have already done it but I see very little to no assistance nor follow through for them. Don’t get me wrong they are grateful for any assistance you may be providing for but in the long run it’s only a small band aid to a much greater problem. Are we satisfied with this? I’m not.
 
When I feel comfortable enough to approach a homeless person, I simply ask them if they need anything. I have gotten all sorts of answers. I have yet for someone to ask me to buy them liquor or cigarettes. They ask for food, something change for the laundromat, or just a cup of coffee. Many stores resent their presence so they are not allowed in to buy food for themselves. I ask people if they will be okay on cold nights. I ask if they have dry clothes on cold mornings. Just ask.
 
When I feel comfortable enough to approach a homeless person, I simply ask them if they need anything. I have gotten all sorts of answers. I have yet for someone to ask me to buy them liquor or cigarettes. They ask for food, something change for the laundromat, or just a cup of coffee. Many stores resent their presence so they are not allowed in to buy food for themselves. I ask people if they will be okay on cold nights. I ask if they have dry clothes on cold mornings. Just ask.
👍👍
 
otjm;12526980:
I’ve been in your challenge close to 15 yrs. now not only as a person in the medical field but in the frontlines of the homeless and the poor. You quote scripture but allow me one: The Wedding of Canaan. When Christ turned water into wine during the festivity, he didn’t call out THOSE WITH ALCOHOL ADDICTION CANNOT COME TO DRINK FOR IT’S ONLY FOR THE SOBER AND THE SINNLESS. I don’t recall Him stating anything like that so why would you? Give them what they need.
If you are truly in the medical field, then you would know why you do not give an alcoholic a drink, or why you do not give a meth addict more meth.

This question I think brings everything into focus and needs no further clarification; but if you feel that unless something as common sense and as standard as a long-accepted medical practice has to be in the Bible, then there is no helping you.

Conversation over.
 
WilT;12527687:
If you are truly in the medical field, then you would know why you do not give an alcoholic a drink, or why you do not give a meth addict more meth.

This question I think brings everything into focus and needs no further clarification; but if you feel that unless something as common sense and as standard as a long-accepted medical practice has to be in the Bible, then there is no helping you.

Conversation over.
your a little confused my friend. I’m not saying to hand out booze and drugs. I’m saying give them what they ask for and not to worry what they may use it for.
 
I agree with the OP in that there is nothing wrong with giving money to the homeless.

I disagree with the OP in his expectation of some sort of perfection on every issue from his priest.

Priests and ministers are human. They are not going to be right on every issue, 100% of the time.

Many nonbelievers make this mistake in that they see one imperfection in a religious person, so they storm off and use this as an excuse not to show up at all. That is a big mistake.

Once my wife who is Methodist, was going to a non-denominational Protestant church. In this church, they did several things that would send many Catholics screaming to the Bishop such as hosting some MMA fights on weekends to raise money. I did not agree with that and did not attend such functions in a church. (Although I do watch some MMA at home.) That did not keep me from learning from the guy, and he taught me some things about giving and attendance / participation in local church that I went right back and tried to follow in my Catholic Church.

I don’t expect people to be St. Francis or St. Augustine, before I can learn something from them.

Otherwise, we might as well close down the entire CAF forum, since no one here is a canonized saint.
 
I was at Mass recently, and during the homily Father was talking about the homeless. He said that we should help them, but never give them money. He said giving the homeless money was not helping them, but enabling them to stay homeless. My wife and I were discussing it later, quite offended, as we often give money to the homeless.
The good priest is justified in cautioning his flock against imprudent almsgiving. As the Catholic Encyclopedia mentions in its article on Almsgiving:

“…many undeserving persons assume the role of professional mendicants to extort aid from those whose sympathy is easily moved, and whose purse strings are loosened to answer every call.”

I “almost never” give money to the homeless. However, occasionally I do feel inspired by God to show charity in that way to some people. When I do, I recognize that I have empowered them to spend it as they wish, but I also feel that I have benefited spiritually from the donation. If I knew their situation, for example, if I knew that someone needed a bus pass, then I feel that it would be more prudent to purchase the bus pass for them.

Years ago, I did once purchase wine for some homeless men at their request, but I was young and it was a summer night and there was no chance that they would freeze to death. It was a group of poor old men who seemed to be friends and they were very merry and each had exact change. I hope they forgot about their cares for awhile.
 
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