burnt out

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Well I guess since today is Saturday and he is out racing, and I am home by myself with kids and I don’t feel like loading everyone up to go to a graduation we were invited too, the issue is the racing! Maybe we will go to a park instead! However, tomorrow my son and I are going to a Tigers game, and he will be home with the rest so I will get a break.

If it factors in any, I also don’t care for the people he races with. I don’t really know them all personally (except his brother) but they all drink too much. His brother was almost killed in an accident while drinking. So sometimes I wonder if I have issues with the racing itself as much as the people he does it with??🤷

I do try to get out to. We are members at the local Y, and I do use that a lot, but my 4 year old boy is a HANDFUL to say the least so I feel guilty leaving them for very long. My husband says I can do whatever I want whenever, but it is simply not that easy. He can do that, but I can’t assume he will be available to watch kids so I have to find and pay a babysitter (who always manages to let my house get completely trashed while I am away). And again I know they can be hard to manage so I feel guilty for leaving them with anyone other than my husband.
 
Well I guess since today is Saturday and he is out racing, and I am home by myself with kids and I don’t feel like loading everyone up to go to a graduation we were invited too, the issue is the racing! Maybe we will go to a park instead! However, tomorrow my son and I are going to a Tigers game, and he will be home with the rest so I will get a break.

If it factors in any, I also don’t care for the people he races with. I don’t really know them all personally (except his brother) but they all drink too much. His brother was almost killed in an accident while drinking. So sometimes I wonder if I have issues with the racing itself as much as the people he does it with??🤷

I do try to get out to. We are members at the local Y, and I do use that a lot, but my 4 year old boy is a HANDFUL to say the least so I feel guilty leaving them for very long. My husband says I can do whatever I want whenever, but it is simply not that easy. He can do that, but I can’t assume he will be available to watch kids so I have to find and pay a babysitter (who always manages to let my house get completely trashed while I am away). And again I know they can be hard to manage so I feel guilty for leaving them with anyone other than my husband.
I was going to ask you about drinking, actually. 😦 Does your husband drink at all? Does he drink more when he is with his brother? Was this near-fatal accident of his brother’s on the track, or just in regular driving? This is not good.
 
I think he drinks too much, but it seems to be normal around here. He never drinks at home - only socially with his brother, dad, or friends(that’s pretty regular though). He doesn’t drink while racing. His brother was in a snowmobile accident at night after he had been drinking at a bar. He survived but messed up his leg pretty good. We actually both walk the same now that my hip is bugging me too:shrug:
 
@CathMom: What is your primary concern here: the racing or the burn out you’re feeling?

Re: the racing, what do you think your husband gains out of it? Is it just play time for play time’s sake? Is it his desire to spend time with his brother? Etc.

I still recommend compromise here and mutual sacrifice… you have a very valid concern about a behavior and he would be well-advised to pay heed. But likewise, he is more likely to do so if you fully understand where he’s coming from and you try to account for that with your suggestions. If he doesn’t respond that way, then he never will.
Veritas, I don’t believe you. If you were engaged in a sport or leisure activity that might result in you ending up permanently disabled, even if that risk were something you were willing to take, and your wife was concerned and wanted you to find some other hobby, you would ignore her? I don’t believe it.

Unless her husband is an overgrown teen, he’s got to recognize that his status in life has changed. As a father of 6, he’s not able to just think of what he wants to do, but what will bring the most benefit and the least risk to his family. Time to grow up some more and put the road rally helmet away.
My wife could totally convince me to quit a dangerous hobby if it truly troubled her heart!

What she could not do is convince me to quit the hobby, and convince me that 4.5 days a year of recreation time is too much. She could not convince me to give up my hobby and not do anything else instead. Hopefully she wouldn’t even try to do that, because that would not be good for my mental health! 🙂
 
You sound like you just need a break.

Could you arrange to go on a 2-3 day retreat, or even to a hotel/shopping with a friend or family member, or whatever would let you have some “time off” for a bit? There are some other things going on as well, but what strikes me most is probably just needing to be able to sit down and do what you want to do for a bit.

Life insurance should be enough to pay off your house, and maintain your lifestyle once invested, let’s say at an avg 8% return- you’d have to figure out the amount. The general rule of thumb I know is 15-20x annual salary. If you were to pass, he’d probably need to hire a live-in nanny/housekeeper to take care of the kids, vs. if he passes, you’d need to be able to maintain your lifestyle after mortgage, but including home repairs/etc. It’s an interesting thing to look into!
 
My wife could totally convince me to quit a dangerous hobby if it truly troubled her heart!

What she could not do is convince me to quit the hobby, and convince me that 4.5 days a year of recreation time is too much. She could not convince me to give up my hobby and not do anything else instead. Hopefully she wouldn’t even try to do that, because that would not be good for my mental health! 🙂
The OP told us it’s 1-2 days a month, or every other weekend. That’s a lot more than 4.5 days a year. There is race day, Saturday, all day until 1 a.m., so she’s totally alone all of that time. Then the next day, he spends fixing what got broken, etc. so Sunday is also sacrificed. I suspect that when the races are over, everyone goes out drinking, that’s where the 1 a.m. end time comes in.
 
**On Alcohol: **I know a doc who said he learned to be specific when he asked patients about their drinking. This is because once he asked a patient to describe his drinking, and when the patient said “moderate”, the doc asked him what that meant. “A case” answered the patient. “A case of beer?” asked the doctor. “Yes, a case” said the patient. “A day?!?” asked the doctor. “Well, yes,” replied the patient. “Sir, I hate to tell you this, but most people do not consider a case of beer a day to be moderate drinking.” The patient, clearly taken aback, replied: “Really? My friends all drink two or three.” That is how the company you keep can skew your sense of moderation. So don’t judge his drinking by the local norm.

**On time away from home: **Driving all day is one thing, but when “something has to give”, maybe it could be the staying out until 1 am. Men with six kids at home ought to expect to adjust their social life, and need to realize they cannot act as if they’re single or divorced. The reason is that guys who don’t usually wind up staying single or getting divorced. Those who don’t miss out on what could have been a lot better marriage. Also, if the racing is all day, he stays out until 1 am, and then the next day they have to get the car back in order, that is two days. His hobby may be hard, but it is not “work”.

On counseling I know some very happy men who were literally dragged to a Marriage Encounter weekend. They tried to bribe their wives, they tried to get out of it, they tried the “you go, and tell me what we learned” ploy. They–not their wives, but these actual men, with their wives not even in earshot–say it is one of the best things they ever did. This is especially true when you have guys like your husband, who are basically good men who want to do the right thing by their wives and families, but maybe don’t communicate so well as they think. You might try the ploy of saying you want to go to counseling, and then when he refuses that, say, “OK, then let’s go on a Marriage Encounter weekend”. (If you bring up counseling first, then going on the weekend becomes a compromise, you see. Has he never tried this technique on you? I’m guessing he may have. :rolleyes:) There is zero stigma with going on a Marriage Encounter weekend; very healthy couples do it all the time, and they come back all glowing and happy and pleased with themselves.

**On going out by yourself with six kids: **I came from an area where our family of eight seemed medium-large. Yeah, there were lots of families of “only” three or four, but there were also lots with ten or twelve or even more. Anyone who thinks there is something wrong with you for not finding a single-handed outing with six siblings under the age of twelve to be a relaxing exercise has obviously never tried it. There is a lot to be said for getting out of the house, but it is NOT the medicine for a day on which you are feeling overwhelmed. The thing for a day on which you are overwhelmed is for somebody to come and see you, and bring dinner while they’re at it. (My mother and one of our aunts brought their combined medium-large famiies to a Dairy Queen at the same time once. One of the staff asked my oldest sister if it was a church group. Well, you might say that, I guess:D)

On getting cleaning help: Nothing against your husband, but you need some. I would offer three choices: a) he can start picking up a sizeable fraction of the time-stamped work (getting food on the table, doing baths, changing diapers, all of that stuff that cannot wait until it fits your schedule) or b) he can force the kids to do it while you’re at the store or c) he can decide that you need someone to come in and help you, because you need help. If he does not agree, then arrange for him to take a week’s time off from, you go visit somewhere without the family he gets to take care of the home place with no help, and when you come back and the house is in no worse order than you left it, get his opinion again.

**On clutter ** It’s more work, but it is worth making the kids pitch in. I know a woman from a very large family who had 4 or so of her own and another five or so nieces and nephews that she took in because their parents couldn’t take care of them, ten or twelve in all, and her rule was this: Serve someone else first. In a big family, things have to get done without Mom nagging, and you don’t just take care of yourself. You have to look around and see what needs doing, and you have to get into the routine yourself. That way, “it is time to get ready for dinner” means everyone has a job to do–setting the table, emptying the dishwasher so it is ready for the dinner dishes, getting the salad ready, whatever. If you already do this, you are only a few years away from a very big payoff. Our kids are 14, and it is amazing how much they get done, even just the two of them. And you know what? When the house is clean and we did it together and I can say, “good job, boys, thank you” and they say “good job, Mom, thank you”, it feels a lot different than having done it all myself. It feels really good.

Once my SIL showed up somewhere, for a baby shower or something like that, and someone asked if her husband (my brother) was babysitting. Do you know what she said? “No. He’s their dad. It is called PARENTING.” She was right. There is not a reason in the world a dad cannot herd his own children. It isn’t the same as Mom, but that is the point. Children were given both a mom and a dad, and it is good for everyone, Mom, Dad, and kids, when Mom does NOT do 99.9% of the caretaking. Maybe a lot more than Dad, but it should be very clear that childrearing is THEIR job, not HER job that he helps with. That “paradigm shift”, as they call it now, is a very important one.
 
Most of what you say sounds reasonable to me, with the exception of objecting to your husband having 4.5 days of recreation time a year. That 4.5 days sounds very, very reasonable to me. I don’t think the problem is that he has 4.5 days, I think the problem is you maybe don’t have 4.5 days!

Marriage is about give and take and mutual self-sacrifice.

When you talk to him about this:

-Express how you feel.

-Ask him how he feels and genuinely listen.

-You want things. We get that. We all do. Chances are, he wants some things too. That’s where I think you’re really lacking here. Develop compromises and solutions. If you force him to quit this hobby and replace it with nothing, that’s a tad better from your perspective, but much worse from his perspective… and then he’s burnt out just like you are. The goal should be: neither of you are as burnt out as you were before!

E.g., he’ll quit the hobby because he understands the dangers involved, but in exchange he wants a day of “rec time” per month where he gets to go out and do something less dangerous… you watch the kids.

He’ll hire a maid to come in and clean once a week or once every week, making your life easier.

Then maybe 1 day a month you have a “date night.” Hire a sitter and go get a meal and watch a movie together or something.

Etc. These are just thoughts, it’s obviously up to you.

I’m telling you straight what none of these other posters are telling you: if you go to him with a demand that he simply ceases his recreation and replaces it with nothing, you are not going to get anywhere! You wouldn’t get anywhere with me, I know that for sure!!!

So be creative: tell him what you want, find out what he wants and figure out how you can work together to make that possible. If you ask him to make a sacrifice then you should be willing to do so as well, and vice versa. But I think there are ways where you can each make “less” of a sacrifice to get what you want - e.g. babysitter, maid, etc.
This.
 
Most of what you say sounds reasonable to me, with the exception of objecting to your husband having 4.5 days of recreation time a year. That 4.5 days sounds very, very reasonable to me. I don’t think the problem is that he has 4.5 days, I think the problem is you maybe don’t have 4.5 days!

Marriage is about give and take and mutual self-sacrifice.

When you talk to him about this:

-Express how you feel.

-Ask him how he feels and genuinely listen.

-You want things. We get that. We all do. Chances are, he wants some things too. That’s where I think you’re really lacking here. Develop compromises and solutions. If you force him to quit this hobby and replace it with nothing, that’s a tad better from your perspective, but much worse from his perspective… and then he’s burnt out just like you are. The goal should be: neither of you are as burnt out as you were before!

E.g., he’ll quit the hobby because he understands the dangers involved, but in exchange he wants a day of “rec time” per month where he gets to go out and do something less dangerous… you watch the kids.

He’ll hire a maid to come in and clean once a week or once every week, making your life easier.

Then maybe 1 day a month you have a “date night.” Hire a sitter and go get a meal and watch a movie together or something.

Etc. These are just thoughts, it’s obviously up to you.

I’m telling you straight what none of these other posters are telling you: if you go to him with a demand that he simply ceases his recreation and replaces it with nothing, you are not going to get anywhere! You wouldn’t get anywhere with me, I know that for sure!!!

So be creative: tell him what you want, find out what he wants and figure out how you can work together to make that possible. If you ask him to make a sacrifice then you should be willing to do so as well, and vice versa. But I think there are ways where you can each make “less” of a sacrifice to get what you want - e.g. babysitter, maid, etc.
“I’m telling you straight what none of these other posters are telling you: if you go to him with a demand that he simply ceases his recreation and replaces it with nothing, you are not going to get anywhere! You wouldn’t get anywhere with me, I know that for sure!!!”

I’m one of those other posters so I would like to comment on the above statement. If she is married to a man rather than a boy she should not have to demand anything. This man would know that scripture demands something from him “Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:” The man’s responsibility is to his family. He needs to man up. His hobby is putting his entire family at risk. I wonder if you have ever had to care for six children at one time for very long. This man is very selfish. He actually doesn’t have time for 4.5 days away from family responsibilities. Two couples in my family are having problem that may end in divorce due to selfishness of a spouse. One of those selfish people already drove off one spouse and is apparently working on number two.

Annie
 
“I’m telling you straight what none of these other posters are telling you: if you go to him with a demand that he simply ceases his recreation and replaces it with nothing, you are not going to get anywhere! You wouldn’t get anywhere with me, I know that for sure!!!”

I’m one of those other posters so I would like to comment on the above statement. If she is married to a man rather than a boy she should not have to demand anything. This man would know that scripture demands something from him “Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:” The man’s responsibility is to his family. He needs to man up. His hobby is putting his entire family at risk. I wonder if you have ever had to care for six children at one time for very long. This man is very selfish.** He actually doesn’t have time for 4.5 days away from family responsibilities**. Two couples in my family are having problem that may end in divorce due to selfishness of a spouse. One of those selfish people already drove off one spouse and is apparently working on number two.

Annie
So right - in fact, his dear wife and the mother of his children has already expressed her concerns and needs to him, and he is ignoring her and continuing to drive in sprint races, drink, and stay out until the wee hours because he wants to, and because she will not be able to stop him. She feels she can’t even ask him to go to counseling because he will have none of it. So yes, I think your evaluation is spot on. Whatever else he is doing for his family, this type of hobby, eating up 2 weekends a month, needs to stop.
 
I think he drinks too much, but it seems to be normal around here. He never drinks at home - only socially with his brother, dad, or friends(that’s pretty regular though). He doesn’t drink while racing. His brother was in a snowmobile accident at night after he had been drinking at a bar. He survived but messed up his leg pretty good. We actually both walk the same now that my hip is bugging me too:shrug:
How often does he go out drinking socially? Every weekend? Any weeknights too? And what do you do when he does this? You said it’s “pretty regular” that he goes out drinking.
 
He drinks socially. Usually at our home when his dad/brother/friends come over or their house, whichever is the case. He might go to a bar once on the weekend if we aren’t doing anything. He hates to be bored at home. And sometimes he goes with coworkers after work. I agree with what another poster said about being specific. He would probably say he doesn’t drink much compared to other guys he is with. This seems to be a big stress reliever for him, and he has told me he hates how we don’t like to do the same things because I don’t like to drink at bars. A lot of couples around here get babysitters and drink together on weekends.

I don’t need to be told that he is not being a good husband or father. I know he has weaknesses but so do I. Tonight I took the kids to the park and there just so happened to be a catholic homeschooling group there. I just watched longingly as the husbands and wives interacted with each other and their kids. I wish so bad that I had that, but I don’t, so I have to make the best of it. I have often wanted to make friends with one of those ladies, but I know I would just feel inadequate. Their husbands are so involved in their daily stuff. I know that my husband should “man up” and be there more for us, but since he hasn’t made big changes in 15 years, I would say I need to figure out how to get the bitterness out of my heart and enjoy life.
 
OP, there is a lot of real estate between getting long-term counseling with the goal of making massive changes and just putting up with things the way they are. Honestly, you don’t sound like you want him made over. You sound like you’d like some changes, not a new husband. You sound like you feel he is a decent guy who does a lot right but who has a family that needs some changes in order to be sustainable for the mother of his six children. I think this is do-able.

My dad used to have a beer and a shot every day, and all the relatives he worked with would come by, and they’d all have a beer and a shot together. It was relaxing, but it wasn’t the beer that made it relaxing. It was the ritual. My dad would drink somewhat more than that on weekends or at weddings, but I have never seen him drunk, and according to his relatives, none of them ever had, either. Some of our relatives had a drinking problem, including siblings, but Dad didn’t. It is possible to be surrounded by people who have no grasp on what moderate drinking means and yet to know your own limits. With the drinking, ask yourself about that: Does he know his own limits? Are the occasions on which he drinks too much rare? Is the main problem with his drinking that he keeps a time line that would be just fine if he were a bachelor, but not for a married man with a young and large family.

You don’t sound like you hate the car racing or letting your husband have some amount of social time without you. You sound like you have a situation where he’s getting that in a way that just isn’t working for you–I mean your situation is unsustainable, not just that your discontented. You’re burned out, you’re lonely, and you’re not entirely comfortable with the amount of help and social time you’re getting from your husband. This cannot go on indefinitely, or you are going to have a collapse. That does not mean that your husband is a bad husband, a bad father, or a bad guy. That only means that something needs to change. It needs to change so that both of you can feel recharged once in awhile, both of you can feel connected to each other, and so on. He has his needs, he has his likes and dislikes, and so do you. Compromise means that you take care of each other’s needs first, and then, as a couple, you accommodate each other’s likes and dislikes as much as you can, too. You are both going to have to put up with some things you don’t like, however, in order to get the needs of the other one met.

I agree with you that if you go to him and complain in a way that is blaming or accusatory, it could backfire on you. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t lodge complaints and expect to have some adjustments made. It may mean, however, that you could use some help in deciding how to lodge your complaints in a way that will lead to some positive compromises and maybe even some clever solutions–you know, new ways of doing things that don’t feel like a “compromise” to anyone! To do that, though, you each need to know not only what your spouse needs and wants, but also what you need and want. For instance–what is it about the scene in the park that you want? Not the park, specifically. Well, think about what it was that you want and what isn’t a vital thing for you. So just as you’d think about how many passengers you need to be able to accomodate and what you need to haul and whether or not you need an open or a lockable place to haul it and how much money you have and all those things when you’re buying a vehicle, it would help to learn what it is that each of you want and need. You can’t find solutions when you’re only guessing at what the problem is!

This is a little chancy for a busy mom, but I’m also going to suggest a book for you. I know it is hard to find a minute to read a book, but this one was written by someone who has done a lot of research on how couples interact, and specifically what communication skills that couples have who stay married a long time and what communication habits are signals of an oncoming divorce. Try this one: The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, by Nan Silver and John Gottman. If you are short on money, though, his other titles on marriage that your library might have, instead, might also help you. HOWEVER–I am realistic. First off, I’m not concerned with whether or not you’re as impressed with the author as he is. I’m also not suggesting that you actually get your husband to do the exercises. I’m suggesting the book as something that can demonstrate some landmines in the world of communication. You don’t have to go through the exercises; you will find help if you learn to recognize “ways of saying/doing that that work” and “ways of saying/doing that which will cause this other effect, instead”. You also don’t have to have the bias that there is something wrong with “the way men are”. I’m suggesting the book to help you understand the difference between what is said and what is heard. Having an idea about that can be really helpful. That’s what I got out of these books.

Then once you get an idea about how a couple can discuss hard issues in a constructive way and how things can go off the rails, try to get yourself on a Marriage Encounter weekend. I could be wrong, but I think your marriage sounds a lot like some marriages I know that got much better with one of those. Ordinary people, going on a weekend simply to make their marriage better, not because it was falling apart, and they did find that it helped them. That might help you.
 
The OP told us it’s 1-2 days a month, or every other weekend. That’s a lot more than 4.5 days a year. There is race day, Saturday, all day until 1 a.m., so she’s totally alone all of that time. Then the next day, he spends fixing what got broken, etc. so Sunday is also sacrificed. I suspect that when the races are over, everyone goes out drinking, that’s where the 1 a.m. end time comes in.
Not exactly. What the OP said in the original post was that it was 1-2 Saturdays per month during the summer. So I did the calculation this way: assume 1-2 becomes 1.5. Assume summer is 3 months. That means 1.5 * 3 = 4.5. I interpreted it as precisely as possible.

She later came back and added Sundays to the equation, and made it sound like it was more than 1-2 Saturdays a month, so now I’m not sure what to believe. I’m sure she hasn’t sat down with a marker and tracked it so precisely, so she doesn’t really know for sure. In defense of myself, I was just interpreting it as precisely as I could based on the original post.

Continued in next post
 
Continued from the post before this.
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Annie39:
I’m one of those other posters so I would like to comment on the above statement. If she is married to a man rather than a boy she should not have to demand anything. This man would know that scripture demands something from him “Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:”
I don’t disagree with this at all, I’m just stressing the importance mutual self-sacrifice. If this hobby is as dangerous as you’re all saying, then he should quit - but at the same time, his wife has her part in this as well.

To give you an example from my own life: my wife has an over-eating problem. The vast majority of the time she is OK and she eats somewhat normally, but every so often she will have trouble handling stress or sadness or whatever. When that happens, she begins gorging herself in a very unhealthy way: downing boxes of cookies and bags of chips, etc. like there’s no tomorrow. As my wife, does she have a tremendous responsibility to me (and our yet to be conceived children, God willing) to take care of herself? Of course.

So I have to step in and tell her to stop. The way I’m hearing you (and I could be mistaken), it sounds like you would say she’s being selfish and irresponsible and she needs to “woman up” and just stop the activity. I don’t disagree with you, for the most part.

But in my role as her husband, isn’t there something else for me to do? I think there is. What I tend to do in these situations is politely (and sweetly) ask her to take a break from snacking temporarily to talk to me. More often than not, she is amenable to this. So we talk. Turns out she’s stressed. “Oh, why are you stressed?” I listen. If there’s a reasonable action I can do to help her with that feeling, I do it. Otherwise, I’ll say, "Hey, I think you could use a massage or a warm bubble bath, etc. (I’ll name a few things.)

“What do you think about that?” “Oh boy, a massage sounds great!” So I give her a massage. Maybe during the massage she talks about what’s going on, and I listen and comfort her. You know what? 9 times out of 10, she doesn’t dive right back into the cookie jar.

Yes, what she was doing was wrong… but no, I am not snatching the cookies from her and telling her to “woman up and do your wifely duties!”, I am instead re-directing her in a positive way through the love of a husband.

And though I do not struggle with overeating, she does something similar for me to help me through my weaknesses.

So should he quit? Yeah, if the hobby is as dangerous as it’s been made out to be then of course! It would be reckless not to stop. What’s the best earthly way to help him? Telling him? I don’t think so. How about the love and compassion of his wonderful wife? Sounds like a great start!

There’s obviously something for him in this—whether it’s the down-time, whether it’s the family connection, whatever it is–there’s something that he’s gaining out of this. Something that will feel like a loss if it is stripped from him. Perhaps instead of stripping it from him, we can re-direct him in a more positive way? Maybe that means inviting the brother over for dinner an extra time per month instead of engaging in this hobby. Maybe it means more date nights. Maybe he can play pool or shoot hoops with the boys instead of the racing.

I’m not saying it will be easy, but I do think it’s a better approach.

Honestly, too, and this is not to take a jab at you but I don’t think the OP is nearly as negative about her husband as you’re making her out to be. Let’s see if she can work a wifely miracle. 👍
He actually doesn’t have time for 4.5 days away from family responsibilities.
Eh. Here’s where I disagree with you the most. With the caveat that the OP seems to be saying the number is higher than 4.5 days now, but we’ll wait for her to throw out a specific number if she can (hard for her to calculate, I’m sure.)

But working with the 4.5 days number for a moment, I think that’s beyond reasonable. Look, my oldest brother has 9 kids, all under the age of 17. God bless him and his wife. 9 wonderful kids. He busts it to support all of them. (Likewise, she’s a housewife, and thus she busts it to keep the house from falling down!) Yet, my brother still manages to make his weekly Wednesday night indoor soccer game 35 weeks a year, or so, and still spends most of the other weeknights and the weekends with the family. Even at only 4 hours a pop, that still adds up to more than 4.5 waking days, I’d guess. His wife sings 3 masses with the Church choir on most Sundays and goes to practice for that for an hour most weeks, so she’s probably way above his number even.

Now, I’m not saying everyone should be like my brother. Lord have mercy if that were the case. All I’m saying is that it CAN work quite well, since I’ve seen it work quite well!

Every couple has to work this out for themselves based on the context of their lives, but yes, I think it’s reasonable and even more than that: I’d say it’s advisable!

Where I will agree with you, in a sense, is that in the context of the relationship the OP describes, it might be a problem currently, because the wife is, by her own reckoning, “burned out.” So they have to come together to figure out how she can avoid the burn out, and I think the remedy should also allow him to keep that time that has to himself.***

***Well, at least the amount of time hinted at in the original post, with OP’s elaboration on this matter, that amount of time may or may not need to be reduced.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand my fingers are tired!
 
…But working with the 4.5 days number for a moment, I think that’s beyond reasonable. Look, my oldest brother has 9 kids, all under the age of 17. God bless him and his wife. 9 wonderful kids. He busts it to support all of them. (Likewise, she’s a housewife, and thus she busts it to keep the house from falling down!) Yet, my brother still manages to make his weekly Wednesday night indoor soccer game 35 weeks a year, or so, and still spends most of the other weeknights and the weekends with the family. Even at only 4 hours a pop, that still adds up to more than 4.5 waking days, I’d guess. His wife sings 3 masses with the Church choir on most Sundays and goes to practice for that for an hour most weeks, so she’s probably way above his number even.

Now, I’m not saying everyone should be like my brother. Lord have mercy if that were the case. All I’m saying is that it CAN work quite well, since I’ve seen it work quite well!

Every couple has to work this out for themselves based on the context of their lives, but yes, I think it’s reasonable and even more than that: I’d say it’s advisable!

Where I will agree with you, in a sense, is that in the context of the relationship the OP describes, it might be a problem currently, because the wife is, by her own reckoning, “burned out.” So they have to come together to figure out how she can avoid the burn out, and I think the remedy should also allow him to keep that time that has to himself.***

***Well, at least the amount of time hinted at in the original post, with OP’s elaboration on this matter, that amount of time may or may not need to be reduced.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand my fingers are tired!
Volunteering to sing at church is her time off? You think that is the same as a night of indoor soccer? Wow, that must be some swinging choir. :rolleyes:

Actually, if I had six kids to care for, I’d much rather have my husband out of the house for four hours one Wednesday night a week for 2/3 of the year than having him gone for an entire Saturday (as in, out early and then back way after the kids and I are in bed) for even a third of the summer, let alone adding on part of Sunday, too. At least with the soccer, you’d see him grab a bite between work and the game, and he’d be home when you went to bed. Besides, when does the whole world have their family time? On summer weekends!!

When it is a Saturday and you’re at the park with six kids and you’re surrounded by a whole bunch of families with both the moms and the dads there, and the father of your children is off somewhere on his own, you feel like a widow, not a wife. It isn’t just about being alone with the kids. When your husband is at work and you are home working, it feels different than when he is out having a good time and you are (again) at home working. Of course you feel lucky to be with the kids that much, but you do wonder a) “Hey, when do I get my day off?” and b) “If I’m so lucky to be taking care of the kids all by myself, how come he isn’t in a bigger hurry to get some of this great luck for himself?” Besides, when a wife finds out what makes her husband feel relaxed, of course it hurts when part of the “ideal day” is squeezing as much time as possible away from her and the kids. Of course she’d want to say, “Sure you like to be with your brother and your friends for some of the day, but what are we, chopped liver? Aren’t you anxious to get home and be with us, too?” Isn’t that why he got married, instead of just staying single?

It’s a fair question. 🤷
 
Six Children… You wouldn’t have time to Scratch yourself… Busy lady…
You need some ME Time… Most men become Slobs to some degree…
Except myself of course… My mom said so,so it must be true… Having Bi-pola would have no influence on her opinion Either… you need a little fun to ease the work&stress …
Drop the Kids off at my place for a week And go have some fun…
 
Volunteering to sing at church is her time off? You think that is the same as a night of indoor soccer? Wow, that must be some swinging choir. :rolleyes:
Shrug She does it because she has fun with it! AFAIK, that’s the definition of recreation.

She does other things for free time, too… like spending some time in the recording studio. She just released a kid’s music album on iTunes! I’d love to drop a link here but then I’d be identifying myself, so… dang it.
Actually, if I had six kids to care for, I’d much rather have my husband out of the house for four hours one Wednesday night a week for 2/3 of the year than having him gone for an entire Saturday (as in, out early and then back way after the kids and I are in bed)
Shrugs again

Yeah again, it’s a context thing for couples to decide amongst themselves. That might be true for you, others might feel differently, who knows…
for even a third of the summer, let alone adding on part of Sunday, too.
For the record: my first response (the 4.5 days thing) was in response to the original post, which did not include mention of Sundays. That obviously adds a dimension to this discussion.
At least with the soccer, you’d see him grab a bite between work and the game, and he’d be home when you went to bed. Besides, when does the whole world have their family time? On summer weekends!!
Well, he works from 8-6 and the commute home is 45 minutes so no-go on the dinner on Wednesday nights. She and the kids order in pizza or Chinese, etc. But yeah he’s home for bed around 10 or 11. 🙂
When it is a Saturday and you’re at the park with six kids and you’re surrounded by a whole bunch of families with both the moms and the dads there, and the father of your children is off somewhere on his own, you feel like a widow, not a wife. It isn’t just about being alone with the kids. When your husband is at work and you are home working, it feels different than when he is out having a good time and you are (again) at home working. Of course you feel lucky to be with the kids that much, but you do wonder a) “Hey, when do I get my day off?” and b) “If I’m so lucky to be taking care of the kids all by myself, how come he isn’t in a bigger hurry to get some of this great luck for himself?”
I don’t doubt it, which is why they both need to take some time off here… it needs to be addressed. Well, he needs to keep his time away and she needs to, apparently, add some. I don’t reckon that I’m saying anything that you would disagree with here.

And, moreover, they might need a heck of a lot more “we” time, too.
Besides, when a wife finds out what makes her husband feel relaxed, of course it hurts when part of the “ideal day” is squeezing as much time as possible away from her and the kids. Of course she’d want to say, “Sure you like to be with your brother and your friends for some of the day, but what are we, chopped liver? Aren’t you anxious to get home and be with us, too?” Isn’t that why he got married, instead of just staying single?
It’s a fair question. 🤷
Sure, it’s fair, I just don’t… “ideal”, I wouldn’t word it that way.

Like, if I say that my “ideal” day involves just me and my wife relaxing, re-connecting, being intimate, etc. that would be true.

But it is not “ideal” for that to be every day, because then I would be completely excluding my father, mother, siblings, etc. from my life. So another “ideal” day might involve both my wife AND my family. It would be a day that we couldn’t be as intimate, but of course I need to see my family.

And then there would have to be another “ideal” day which includes her family, because if her family were excluded from our lives, she would be unhappy and that would, in turn, make me unhappy.

And then there would be another “ideal” day involving friends.

And another involving the sacraments, and so on.

And, since I’m an introvert and need time to re-charge my batteries mentally and spiritually, another “ideal” day might involve some completely alone time.

See what I mean?

You say his “ideal day” involves “squeezing as much time as possible away from her and the kid,” I’m suggesting maybe that is one of his many ideal days. It’s a possibility. Look, the OP clearly loves her husband and says many good things about him, I don’t think it’s fair for us to suggest he might be a deadbeat on her behalf. (Choose a less harsh word than deadbeat if you would like, I know you didn’t use that word, just talking about the general concept here.)
 
Shrug She does it because she has fun with it! AFAIK, that’s the definition of recreation.

She does other things for free time, too… like spending some time in the recording studio. She just released a kid’s music album on iTunes! I’d love to drop a link here but then I’d be identifying myself, so… dang it.

Shrugs again

Yeah again, it’s a context thing for couples to decide amongst themselves. That might be true for you, others might feel differently, who knows…

For the record: my first response (the 4.5 days thing) was in response to the original post, which did not include mention of Sundays. That obviously adds a dimension to this discussion.

Well, he works from 8-6 and the commute home is 45 minutes so no-go on the dinner on Wednesday nights. She and the kids order in pizza or Chinese, etc. But yeah he’s home for bed around 10 or 11. 🙂

I don’t doubt it, which is why they both need to take some time off here… it needs to be addressed. Well, he needs to keep his time away and she needs to, apparently, add some. I don’t reckon that I’m saying anything that you would disagree with here.

And, moreover, they might need a heck of a lot more “we” time, too.

Sure, it’s fair, I just don’t… “ideal”, I wouldn’t word it that way.

Like, if I say that my “ideal” day involves just me and my wife relaxing, re-connecting, being intimate, etc. that would be true.

But it is not “ideal” for that to be every day, because then I would be completely excluding my father, mother, siblings, etc. from my life. So another “ideal” day might involve both my wife AND my family. It would be a day that we couldn’t be as intimate, but of course I need to see my family.

And then there would have to be another “ideal” day which includes her family, because if her family were excluded from our lives, she would be unhappy and that would, in turn, make me unhappy.

And then there would be another “ideal” day involving friends.

And another involving the sacraments, and so on.

And, since I’m an introvert and need time to re-charge my batteries mentally and spiritually, another “ideal” day might involve some completely alone time.

See what I mean?

You say his “ideal day” involves “squeezing as much time as possible away from her and the kid,” I’m suggesting maybe that is one of his many ideal days. It’s a possibility. Look, the OP clearly loves her husband and says many good things about him, I don’t think it’s fair for us to suggest he might be a deadbeat on her behalf. (Choose a less harsh word than deadbeat if you would like, I know you didn’t use that word, just talking about the general concept here.)
Well, if she posted that this is what they do and she’s great with it, well, more power to them. She’s not posting that, and I’m not surprised. I can easily imagine why she feels the way she says she does.

I think we agree on this much: this doesn’t sound like a husband who has to be made over in order to make his wife happy. It sounds like a question of finding a balance. I suspect, however, that is going to involve having him scale back most of this über-Saturday habit, such that the days he is gone all day and the nights he is out late into the night are not all on the same day, at least not very often. Perhaps they need to schedule someone she enjoys to spend some time with her on his “über” days, too, because part of the problem with those is that she gets lonely for adult company, not to mention simply worn out by attending to the kids all by herself all day long. Maybe she needs a sitter just long enough to go down to the track, watch his last hour or so of racing and catch up on how he did, and then have some time with the group before she goes home and they go off to socializing she doesn’t enjoy so much.

And yes, she needs to have her own time out. If that is volunteering at church, well, that is OK. (I’m not in favor of keeping track of hours such that it takes a calculator. That kind of concern about “fairness” is better left alone.)
 
He drinks socially. Usually at our home when his dad/brother/friends come over or their house, whichever is the case. He might go to a bar once on the weekend if we aren’t doing anything. He hates to be bored at home. And sometimes he goes with coworkers after work. I agree with what another poster said about being specific. He would probably say he doesn’t drink much compared to other guys he is with. This seems to be a big stress reliever for him, and he has told me he hates how we don’t like to do the same things because I don’t like to drink at bars. A lot of couples around here get babysitters and drink together on weekends.

I don’t need to be told that he is not being a good husband or father. I know he has weaknesses but so do I. Tonight I took the kids to the park and there just so happened to be a catholic homeschooling group there. I just watched longingly as the husbands and wives interacted with each other and their kids. I wish so bad that I had that, but I don’t, so I have to make the best of it. I have often wanted to make friends with one of those ladies, but I know I would just feel inadequate. Their husbands are so involved in their daily stuff. I know that my husband should “man up” and be there more for us, but since he hasn’t made big changes in 15 years, I would say I need to figure out how to get the bitterness out of my heart and enjoy life.
This caught my attention. He has 6 kids and he gets bored at home??? What’s that about??
 
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