Burqa ban passes French lower house overwhelmingly

[Miserys_Fence]

Not everyone in a burqa is a terrorist and/or Muslim

Not every terrorist wears a burqa and/or is Muslim.

Not everyone in the US who wears blue is a Crip, nor everyone who wears red is a Blood (or perhaps primary colors should be banned too, just to be safe?)

Miz

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Burqas are not religious garb, they are cultural garb. As such there should be no protection under the law.

Nor for religious garb either; in this 21st century, those are just medieval costumes.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

I thought conservatives (particularly libertarians) were for freedom of action which does not harm anyone else? Is that restricted to Christians and Jews?

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Burqas are not religious garb, they are cultural garb. As such there should be no protection under the law.

There was a US Supreme Court case where a man’s conviction for wearing women’s garb (contrary to law!) was overturned.

 

[Lycorth]

For security reasons, nobody should be allowed to cover their faces in public. Would you feel safe in a country where people are allowed to walk around with hoods on their heads?

In Florida, a Muslim woman sued to keep her face covered for her driver’s license ID.

I say good for the French to stand up to this threat.

Amen. Vive la France

 

[rlg94086]

I think that every freedom-loving American should consider the French attitude nuts. If you want to wear anything, that’s your business.

The only place such garb is not allowed is areas of security, like banks. Next they’ll be telling nuns to take off their veils.

Agreed.

 

[ChadS]

I guess it’s safe to go back to eating French Fries now that France is passing laws that some Americans approve of. Will Bill O’Reilley rescind his boycott of French wines and such?

This law just strikes me as another attempt by the French to control problems they’ve had an abysmal record of trying to control. The idea was years ago to turn all immigrants into Frenchmen – assimilate them body and whole into the French nation. Teach them all French language, cultures, ideas and morals. That didn’t work, instead the French ended up with an underclass cut off from the French mainstream, more entrenched in their ethnic identities. Very few would graduate from school or go to university, even more are unemployed and have no hope of getting jobs routinely reserved for native-born French. They are segregated into crime-ridden housing projects where they are routinely harassed by French police (native-born with very few coming from the same community being policed) and if something bad happens riots can erupt.

Now the thought is if they won’t become French then we’ll forcibly strip them of the identities by not allowing them to wear burqas. At least then they’ll “look” French.

Let’s not forget that many of their Arab and Muslim immigrants in France come from former colonies. The French have a long and sometimes extremely violent relationship with the African continent that extends up to this day. Some of the French colonies didn’t gain independence until the 1950s and 1960s and it wasn’t always peaceful. The French Foreign legion is still trained and headquarterd in Africa and they have troops stationed in countries us American’s don’t pay attention to.

This isn’t solely about the burqa but there are tons of other things that go with history tied up into this whole thing.

ChadS

 

[Redratfish]

I haven’t read of nuns carrying bombs and blowing people up. Muslim terrorists do just that including Muslim women. You cannot tell if it is a man or a woman in a burqa. You cannot identify the person wearing a full face veil. You take your chances when you move to a different culture. There is absolutely no way a Western woman could wear short-shorts, a halter top etc. in Saudi. She’d be arrested.

So much for Christian charity. In most places, I would be more supportive to a law like the one passed in France. The problem is, once one religion has restrictions on them, and what they can wear from their culture, what is to stop them from doing it with any other religion? What about priests?

“Oh he may be hiding a gun under his robes, that he can use to commit pedophilia!”

Sounds stupid, but I have no doubt in my mind (and it seems enforced here) that someone wants to ban the Priest’s vestments. Heres a little quote I thought was appropriate.

** “In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”**

Once we accept what the world tells us about a group, and are ok with their persecution, simply because we are not that religion, we are no different than the Germans who did not help those getting sent to concentration camps. Sure, the punishment for those sent away was worse than not wearing your cultural clothes, but the fact of the matter is that it can happen to anyone.

 

[Lycorth]

What critics are forgetting is that *Catholics *aren’t the ones planting bombs or threatening to riot when someone draws a picture of Jesus, so there’s no reason to worry that Catholic clergy will be “persecuted” next.

 

[aicirt]

So much for Christian charity. In most places, I would be more supportive to a law like the one passed in France. The problem is, once one religion has restrictions on them, and what they can wear from their culture, what is to stop them from doing it with any other religion? What about priests?

“Oh he may be hiding a gun under his robes, that he can use to commit pedophilia!”

Sounds stupid, but I have no doubt in my mind (and it seems enforced here) that someone wants to ban the Priest’s vestments. Heres a little quote I thought was appropriate.

** “In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”**

Once we accept what the world tells us about a group, and are ok with their persecution, simply because we are not that religion, we are no different than the Germans who did not help those getting sent to concentration camps. Sure, the punishment for those sent away was worse than not wearing your cultural clothes, but the fact of the matter is that it can happen to anyone.

Yes, it does sound stupid.

 

[Kadaveri]

Face veils are not a real issue in France, their own intelligence services estimate about 360 women in the country ever wear them (out of 5 million Muslims) and the French police have said any ban would be unenforceable anyway. The French public is suffering from severe job and benefits cuts supposedly to deal with the economic crisis it and the EU has been in since 2008, so (as usual) to distract the public’s attention this total non-issue has dominated the news over the last year. Sarkozy even called an emergency Parliament meeting to continue discussing imaginary burka hordes just as an extremely unpopular bill to spend $150 billion on bailing out Greece was passed; which conveniently was pushed off the headlines by yet another burka crisis development.

 

[Redratfish]

What critics are forgetting is that *Catholics *aren’t the ones planting bombs or threatening to riot when someone draws a picture of Jesus, so there’s no reason to worry that Catholic clergy will be “persecuted” next.

I’m sure the non communists thought the same thing in Nazi Germany.

Just because we don’t think we aren’t doing anything wrong, doesn’t make us immune. Newsflash, right now, Catholicism (at least where I live) is the second most hated religion. The first being Islam. Who will the people attack next, if not the Catholic Church.

You say, Catholics aren’t planting bombs. Your right. Just like most Islamics don’t plant bombs. Its called generalization. Catholics have the abuse scandal right now. People want to get at the Church, just go to CNN and find an article on the Catholic Church, and you’ll see that.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

What critics are forgetting is that *Catholics *aren’t the ones planting bombs or threatening to riot when someone draws a picture of Jesus, so there’s no reason to worry that Catholic clergy will be “persecuted” next.

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

– Rev.Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963

 

[momor]

Sovereign nations have the right to protect their culture if they so choose. And people have the right to live where their cultural identity is supported. Not every country has to be the melting pot that America is.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Sovereign nations have the right to protect their culture if they so choose. And people have the right to live where their cultural identity is supported. Not every country has to be the melting pot that America is.

However, France has always been a country that welcomed others, a refuge for the opporessed during the 19th century when empires ruled most of central and eastern Europe.

I’d not call America a melting pot; it has always appeared to me to be a grand mosaic making a whole that is grander than the sum of its many small pieces.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

However, France has always been a country that welcomed others, a refuge for the opporessed during the 19th century when empires ruled most of central and eastern Europe.

Muslims aren’t in France because of that Muslims are in France because in France’s colonial past it controlled Morocco and Algeria, it is no coincidence that most Muslims in France originally came from those former French colonies.

And your idea of France as a refuge for the oppressed is a pure fantasy, Revolutionary France was one of the most oppressive regimes in existence at that time they even carried out genocide against their own people in the Vendee region and executed Catholics in their thousands.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

And your idea of France as a refuge for the oppressed is a pure fantasy, Revolutionary France was one of the most oppressive regimes in existence at that time they even carried out genocide against their own people in the Vendee region and executed Catholics in their thousands.

Fantasy? Ask the Poles and others abut the 1848 uprisings, and about what country welcomed them and allowed them to publicize the plights of their oppressed nations.

You have an idée fixe about France, thinking it to be revolutionary France, but French history doesn’t stop at the end of the 18th century.

 

[Lycorth]

I’m sure the non communists thought the same thing in Nazi Germany.

Just because we don’t think we aren’t doing anything wrong, doesn’t make us immune. Newsflash, right now, Catholicism (at least where I live) is the second most hated religion. The first being Islam. Who will the people attack next, if not the Catholic Church.

You say, Catholics aren’t planting bombs. Your right. Just like most Islamics don’t plant bombs. Its called generalization. Catholics have the abuse scandal right now. People want to get at the Church, just go to CNN and find an article on the Catholic Church, and you’ll see that.

So, France cannot protect its culture and identity?

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

– Rev.Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963

If they want to wear burqas, they can go home.

No one expects other countries to submit to European or Christian demands, yet Europeans and Christians have to submit to everyone. I’m glad France is finally getting the message.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Face veils are not a real issue in France, their own intelligence services estimate about 360 women in the country ever wear them (out of 5 million Muslims) and the French police have said any ban would be unenforceable anyway. The French public is suffering from severe job and benefits cuts supposedly to deal with the economic crisis it and the EU has been in since 2008, so (as usual) to distract the public’s attention this total non-issue has dominated the news over the last year. Sarkozy even called an emergency Parliament meeting to continue discussing imaginary burka hordes just as an extremely unpopular bill to spend $150 billion on bailing out Greece was passed; which conveniently was pushed off the headlines by yet another burka crisis development.

This has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with with walking around in public with a veil over your face, so you can’t identify the person. If there are only 360 women hiding their faces, obviously it’s not a religious mandate. The rest of the millions of Muslim women in France do not cover their faces.

It has nothing to do with who sets off bombs.

It’s plain irrational to think it should be okay to get your driver’s license or passport picture taken or be permitted to run around in public with a hood over your face.

Freedom of expression does not include the right to call “fire” in a crowded movie theatre.

Maybe the French should look at the safety issues of walking in public or driving while half blinded.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Fantasy? Ask the Poles and others abut the 1848 uprisings, and about what country welcomed them and allowed them to publicize the plights of their oppressed nations.

You have an idée fixe about France, thinking it to be revolutionary France, but French history doesn’t stop at the end of the 18th century.

The Poles were used by the French to help protect France from the Holy Alliance it was a purely selfish action on the part of the French.