"But it's my body!"

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I continue to be frustrated in convserations with pro-abortionists who seem to think “a woman’s body is her own” is quite a legitimate excuse for abortion.

My house is my own, the law nor any rational person would deny that, yet the law does not stop at my front door. I am still obligated to respect the personhood of all within my home.

Its highly ironic that students on my university campus all over will refrain from eating meat because they disagree with how we treat cows in farms. No one is concerned about the problem of abortion. When the the Catholic students, with our Chaplaincy, try establish a pro-life presence there has been nothing but trouble!

A near by univeristy in Ontario also denied the pro-life group official club status, denying it the ability to set up on campus or put up posters of any kind.

Anyways…just venting.
 
The relative moralism demonstrated by so many people today never ceases to amaze me. Like you I find it difficult to understand how one can be morally opposed to how our meats are obtained and yet remain indifferent to the injustice of abortion.

I like the analogy of your home being your property, but moral law not stopping at the door!

I’m sorry that you’ve been experiencing difficulties with the pro-life movement in your area. For some encouragement–and maybe even some concrete ideas about what you can do–please visit the 40 Days for Life webpage at 40daysforlife.com. This peaceful prayer vigil and pro-life campaign went nationwide across America this past fall, and in its short existence has been shown to have great impact on the communities where it has taken root. I was personally involved in the campaign in my community and was able to witness the great power of prayer on people’s lives.

And do not be discouraged in your pro-life campaign. If you peacefully demonstrate the love of God to all in your community, showing how His love requires us to not only love the unborn children, but also the mothers and fathers and abortionists (and all involved), you can be sure that God is smiling down on you.
 
I continue to be frustrated in convserations with pro-abortionists who seem to think “a woman’s body is her own” is quite a legitimate excuse for abortion.

My house is my own, the law nor any rational person would deny that, yet the law does not stop at my front door. I am still obligated to respect the personhood of all within my home.

Its highly ironic that students on my university campus all over will refrain from eating meat because they disagree with how we treat cows in farms. No one is concerned about the problem of abortion. When the the Catholic students, with our Chaplaincy, try establish a pro-life presence there has been nothing but trouble!

A near by univeristy in Ontario also denied the pro-life group official club status, denying it the ability to set up on campus or put up posters of any kind.

Anyways…just venting.
When we give medicines to children we use sugar-coatings or toys to make it acceptable. Otherwise, the bitter pill will only scare them away.
This is also true for worthy causes. You need more creativity than just introducing yourselves as pro-lifers.
 
I continue to be frustrated in convserations with pro-abortionists who seem to think “a woman’s body is her own” is quite a legitimate excuse for abortion.

My house is my own, the law nor any rational person would deny that, yet the law does not stop at my front door. I am still obligated to respect the personhood of all within my home.

Its highly ironic that students on my university campus all over will refrain from eating meat because they disagree with how we treat cows in farms. No one is concerned about the problem of abortion. When the the Catholic students, with our Chaplaincy, try establish a pro-life presence there has been nothing but trouble!

A near by univeristy in Ontario also denied the pro-life group official club status, denying it the ability to set up on campus or put up posters of any kind.

Anyways…just venting.
It’s their body as long as they gave it to themselves, just as they may take the innocent life if they alone gave it life. I have 2 questions for pro-deathers:
  1. Name any living person who was not, at one time, a “non-viable tissue mass”
  2. If not aborted, what do such tissue masses become?
Christ’s peace.
 
I continue to be frustrated in convserations with pro-abortionists who seem to think “a woman’s body is her own” is quite a legitimate excuse for abortion.
I am wondering why they think a woman’s body is her own? Where does this reasoning coming from? They mean we each are total masters over are own bodies? No limits?
 
I am wondering why they think a woman’s body is her own? Where does this reasoning coming from? They mean we each are total masters over are own bodies? No limits?
Interesting - throughout history, a man’s body has not been “his own” - governments and regimes almost everywhere and at almost all times have had the power to draft him, forcing him and his body to arms…
 
Interesting - throughout history, a man’s body has not been “his own” - governments and regimes almost everywhere and at almost all times have had the power to draft him, forcing him and his body to arms…
Yes, and if I am the sole master of my body than I should be able to sell myself into slavery or or sell off important parts even if it means my death.
 
Same argument is used for “assisted suicide”.
“It’s my body”. 😦
 
the only effective response to a lie is the truth
No, it is not your body. It is the body of an independent, separate human being whom you invited into your body when you had sex. It is a human being with its own DNA, organs, blood supply separate from yours, and at least after 16 weeks and possibly before, capable of feeling pain, recognizing your voice and responding to stimulus from outside the womb. YOu are talking about two bodies, both of which will suffer from the effects of the violent assault labelled abortion.
 
Last year, I read that’s amazing explanation … that during the recitation of the Eucharistic prayer, particularly the consecration…the priest elevates the host and says the words…Take and eat, this is my body, given up for you!

The very words…a pro-abortionist will say…This is my body, and mine alone, don’t tell me what to do.

The difference is love! Jesus pours Himself out for each of us.
More reasons to pray.
 
I continue to be frustrated in convserations with pro-abortionists who seem to think “a woman’s body is her own” is quite a legitimate excuse for abortion…, …
Anyways…just venting.
Within each body is the ability to kill, however the right to kill is a different thing all together. These woman exercise the ability to kill, they never had the right to kill.

It is not surprising they are quick to point out their righteousness above others ( meat eaters, smokers, etc) yet fail to see their own sin. I think Jesus spoke of that with regard to splinters and beams?
 
I usually answer this argument by saying something like,

“Oh, really? So your body has two heartbeats, two sets of brainwaves, two unique DNA patterns, and possibly two genders? I didn’t know all that was possible.”

Simple fact of the matter is it is NOT their body. The child may be inside their body for the time being, but that does not give the woman ownership over it. It is its own body and its own life. I hate the whole “my body, my choice” slogan of the pro-death crowd.

And speaking of pro-death, I will have the privilage of working as a police officer at a university on Tuesday, January 23rd. Yep, that means that as a state employee I cannot express any political views or opinions when all the pro-abort student groups and the women’s resource center are out celebrating.:mad: Although, if they do use their “5,000 deaths a year before 1973” sign again, I will point out to them that they are lying to our student body.

In Christ,
Rand
 
the only effective response to a lie is the truth
No, it is not your body. It is the body of an independent, separate human being whom you invited into your body when you had sex.
Oh, that’s really good! I hope you don’t mind if I borrow that in the future… Sadly, though, when I’ve been in debates with staunch pro-abortion people in the past, nothing seems to work with them.
 
I usually answer this argument by saying something like,

"Oh, really? So your body has two heartbeats, two sets of brainwaves, two unique DNA patterns, and possibly two genders? I didn’t know all that was possible.

In Christ,
Rand
OOPS, lots of good comments here. I should have read all the replies before posting. I particularly liked this one, too. May the Holy Spirit be with you on the 22nd, Rand.
 
“Oh, really? So your body has two heartbeats, two sets of brainwaves, two unique DNA patterns, and possibly two genders? I didn’t know all that was possible.”
But that is only fully true after about 26 weeks (synapses form pretty suddenly then, before that there are neurons, but they are not connected).

Our teaching is absolute, from fertilized zygote to natural death. This is a hard teaching. A fertilzied zygote only has about a 50/50 chance of becoming a birthed baby. It also can become a uterine cyst - still complete with its own unique DNA.

It should be of no surprise that secular society disagrees at which point in human development we go from being tissue to a human person, we struggle with that ourselves. We object to human cloning, but should it occur, the result would still be a fellow child of God. Just like IVF, we object to the procedure morally, but we do not declare children who result non human.

So let’s consider what that means. If you clone a human being from a mole (say a skin growth on someone’s ear), and we accept the result as a human person, does that mean we have to object to the removal of moles? I’m using this example because certain kinds of moles have their own DNA and there are a small group of poeple that object to their destruction on theological grounds.

But we don’t have to be that far fetched. Look at the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Abortion. Find the point where it discusses an answer from the Church in 1902 on the question of ectopic pregnancies. Then go to the USCCB web site and find the current Directives for Health Care Providers (I think it is now the fourth edition). Look at #45 and #48. It seems very clear that we cannot terminate an ectopic pregnancy. Yet, plenty of staunchly ‘pro-life’ Catholics here will howl that is a lie. Such an abortion, they will say, is covered by “double effect”. But that argument, though widely taught, was never universally accepted by theologians and is often not used in Catholic Bioethics discussions today.

The point isn’t who is right or wrong, the point is that even people who think they fully embrace our pro-life teachings have trouble fully accepting them. Look at CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI, #38. Per the Pope and the Second Vatican Council, the inalienable “right to life” is much, much, more than abortion. But, again, many people who describe themselves as “pro life” will howl if you suggest that there is, in fact, a connection between things like abortion, slavery, torture, and the death penalty - even when such a view is spelled out in Church documents.

The best way to deal with the sort of ‘frustration’ described in the OP is to remember that the foundation of our belief is that we treasure each life as a unique creation of God which He can, and doe love infinitely. That is, start by trying to have all the depth of love and feeling for the person frustrating you as the unborn children your heart already bleeds for.

I’ve found that when you explain our belief in this way, you won’t always get agreement, but you will get more understanding. When you ask, would you beat a newborn baby to death? Most people answer no. Would you give it a lethel injection just before it was born simply because you felt like it? Again, the answer is no. When you explain that we treasure every life a great deal (we are supposed to love each other as Christ loves each of us - as the Lord, Christ’s love is infinite), so even though we don’t know when ensoulement occurs (see the Church’s declaration on Procurred Abortion, footnote 19), we are compelled to error on the side of life. We are also called by Christ not to try to judge the worthiness (or unworthiness) of others, so we accept, or at least try to accept, the difficult teaching of two deaths being better than one murder with regards to abortions of medical necessity.

But we also believe we are all sinners and that none of us lives up to the Lord’s gift to us, so we should not feel angry and self rightous, but love and compassion.
 
I continue to be frustrated in convserations with pro-abortionists who seem to think “a woman’s body is her own” is quite a legitimate excuse for abortion.

My house is my own, the law nor any rational person would deny that, yet the law does not stop at my front door. I am still obligated to respect the personhood of all within my home.

Its highly ironic that students on my university campus all over will refrain from eating meat because they disagree with how we treat cows in farms. No one is concerned about the problem of abortion. When the the Catholic students, with our Chaplaincy, try establish a pro-life presence there has been nothing but trouble!

A near by univeristy in Ontario also denied the pro-life group official club status, denying it the ability to set up on campus or put up posters of any kind.

Anyways…just venting.
The short version:

Pro-Choicer’s Assertion: “But it’s **my **body!
Pro-Lifer’s Retort: “But it’s not your body alone!

You can go into more detail along those lines (different DNA coding, its own heartbeat, brainwave patterns, etc., etc., etc.), but the above is the short version.

Pro-Abortion version: “The government has no right to interfere in my private business!
Pro-Life version: “The government has the obligation to protect the civil liberties of the life that you carry in you

I, for one, always tell pro-aborts the following:

"*I, for one, am totally pro-choice. I believe absolutely in the woman’s right to control her own body and I would never, ever dream of having big brother interfere in the medical procedures she does that affects only her body.

“But you need to explain what the baby did to deserve a death sentence. You further need to show me how that baby’s due process rights under the fifth amendment were protected prior to the execution of that death sentence.”

*The pro-aborts can scream civil rights all they want. But they can’t argue with science. From the moment of fertilization, the baby has its own DNA.

One other thing to ask the pro-aborts…Technological advances have pushed the viability of that new baby back from 40 weeks to 20 weeks. In vitro technology (although morally abhorrent in of itself) has shown that a considerable amount of development can happen outside the womb at the early stages. At some point in time, there will be a convergence between neo-natal technology and in vitro technology where complete development can happen outside of a woman’s womb. Again, I am not morally validating that inevitable development, but am simply stating what is likely to be…and, when that happens, when does the product of that technology get conferred its civil rights? Right now, civil rights are conferred (in error) when it’s born (either through the birth canal or through cesarean section). What happens if a baby develops totally in vitro? When is the “birth day?”

The only logical answer that is not utterly arbitrary is to consider a new life when the DNA is formed creating that life. May that God open their eyes to see.
 
The only logical answer that is not utterly arbitrary is to consider a new life when the DNA is formed creating that life. May that God open their eyes to see.
Including moles and uterine cysts? That is the response you will get from secular society.
 
The pro-aborts can scream civil rights all they want. But they can’t argue with science.
Oh, they certainly try to. I’ve had many tell me, when I’ve cited numerous scientific books, “Well, I don’t believe that.” Amazing how they just ignore science completely on this issue but won’t shut up about it when they think it disproves the existance of God.

In Christ,
Rand
 
Oh, they certainly try to. I’ve had many tell me, when I’ve cited numerous scientific books, “Well, I don’t believe that.” Amazing how they just ignore science completely on this issue but won’t shut up about it when they think it disproves the existance of God.

In Christ,
Rand
In other words, they just have to take it on faith.:banghead: :banghead:
 
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