"By their fruit, you will recognize them."

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You know this niceness thing is to some extent contrived. Mormons have the same problems in their lives as do catholics, despite their wholesome image. And that is the point, they project an image, people are not likely to join their organisation unless they project a positive image, hence the clean cut smiling wholesome thing that is very attractive.
But you know, it’s not about that. When you go into a catholic church it is about God, not about projecting an image that a casual visitor might find irresistable. It is about coming before the Lord, just yourself with all your baggage and being with him in reverence and love. Whether you choose to be annonymous within your church or very involved is secondary, the primary reason for being there is your relationship with God, nothing else matters, everything else is peripheral, but meeting your Lord on your knees in His love and forgiveness has a value beyond measure. Mormons project an image better that is all, and may I say, that soon changes when a member of that church expresses doubts or wishes to leave, the image shatters and the true nature of the organisation becomes evident. It’s a bit like that film, where all the wives projected an image of a perfect life and marriage, but it was all false, was it Stepford wives? Anyway I am sure you get the point, and many who have left that faith will testify that in order to continue in, they hqad to lose themselves, that is their intellect and power to reason. Believe for the thinking has been done, that is a paraphrase of, a directive from a mormon leader, scary stuff
 
I’m neither Catholic nor Mormon but I will tell you this…I lived in Utah for one and a half years and have made the following observation:
Mormons in general are NOT nice people. They tend to be reserved, artificial, superficial and socially awkward.

Catholics on the other hand, in my experience, those raised Catholic, have always come across as pretty friendly, sociable, approachable, and open-minded.

This is my experience.

I can’t figure the Mormons are soooo NICE stereotype…makes me think they be mormons postin’ here:confused:;):eek:
 
GuerreroDeAmor said:
I’m neither Catholic nor Mormon but I will tell you this…I lived in Utah for one and a half years and have made the following observation:
Mormons in general are NOT nice people. They tend to be reserved, artificial, superficial and socially awkward.

I can’t figure the Mormons are soooo NICE stereotype…makes me think they be mormons postin’ here:confused:;):eek:
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I tend to agree - interesting that we’ve not heard any comments back from the OP. Perhaps in the OP’s religious designation of “Church of Christ” we should insert “Jesus” and end with “of Latter-day Saints”?🙂 :confused:
 
I know a Mormon couple personally and occasionally have dinner with them. They are the first real experience I have had with Mormons outside of missionaries, and I have to say, they are extraordinarily nice.

I find them extraordinarily tolerant of other religions and minorities. When I asked them why they were so tolerant (as my preconceived notions were that Mormons were religious zealots,) they cited that they had a lot experience being outsiders and understand what that feels like.

The wife once wanted to come to church with me and loved it. She said it was so much more interactive than the LDS service - the whole stand up, kneel, genuflect, sign of cross, chanting etc.

We debate religion on occasion over my glass of wine and their club soda. All-in-all, I’m a fan but I only know one couple.

Additionally, they say former LDS cite the same reasons for apostasy as a former Catholics - all the rules, and saying it’s a cult. But, of course we’ve heard all those excuses before.
 
Well, that is how a con is run. Entice people into believing a surface presentation, and hope they don’t lift the covers until the con has been completed.

The LDS Church spends millions of dollars on PR, cultivating the “wholesome” image. They drill the idea of "kindness"into their members heads.

It is an act. Meant to impress not only outsiders, but themselves. It is not a fruit of the Holy Spirt, but one of repeated and socially enforced indoctrination. I for one do not want to see Catholicism become an indoctrination tool where everyone is made into little cookie cutter images of a PR campaign.
 
I just read something on Narcissus this morning…it was not that he loved himself…what he loved was the reflection of himself in the pool.

And isn’t in a reality from an event in our life that in being genuine…we encounter Christ…Christ connecting God with our broken humanity…?..

Rebecca?..
 
Conor7 said:
I know a Mormon couple personally and occasionally have dinner with them. They are the first real experience I have had with Mormons outside of missionaries, and I have to say, they are extraordinarily nice.

The wife once wanted to come to church with me and loved it. She said it was so much more interactive than the LDS service - the whole stand up, kneel, genuflect, sign of cross, chanting etc.

We debate religion on occasion over my glass of wine and their club soda. All-in-all, I’m a fan but I only know one couple.
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You know only one couple. And they seem to be decent people, perhaps on the verge of leaving the LDS. LDS from predominantly Mormon areas of the country are much less tolerant. I would suggest you read the Book of Mormon, and see if it voices those tolerant attitudes. I will pray for that one couple.

And, like Kathleen and Rebecca say, many are very superficially friendly and “nice,” and eager to deculturate others from their religions and cultures. Cultural and religious homogeniety are their goal. Their doctrines do not oppose racism, but instead give people of color the false hope of social acceptability through conversion. Who knows, maybe their skin will turn white. :rolleyes:
 
Jerusha said:
You know only one couple. And they seem to be decent people, perhaps on the verge of leaving the LDS. LDS from predominantly Mormon areas of the country are much less tolerant. I would suggest you read the Book of Mormon, and see if it voices those tolerant attitudes. I will pray for that one couple.

And, like Kathleen and Rebecca say, many are very superficially friendly and “nice,” and eager to deculturate others from their religions and cultures. Cultural and religious homogeniety are their goal. Their doctrines do not oppose racism, but instead give people of color the false hope of social acceptability through conversion. Who knows, maybe their skin will turn white. :rolleyes:
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Haha, don’t say it like that. I hear your voice behind those words: You know ONE couple… Yes I know one couple, and this one couple is extremely devout and would never leave the LDS faith. They happen to be nice people despite what the Book of Mormon may are may not say.

You cite that perhaps if they were around other LDS they would be less tolerant. So I can assume because you are Catholic and are around other Catholics on this board that that is the reason you’re being narrow-minded?

You pray for them and I’ll pray for you.
 
I think we should look at people as children of God. Christ not only preached to the Jews but Samaritans as well. All people can be saved if they choose to. Thats the key there choose. We as catholics need to take some cues from other christian denominations and be as loud as they are about their faith. We cant be hidden under a pot because our light wont be seen we must illuminate others both when we are at home or outside it!
 
RebeccaJ said:
Well, that is how a con is run. Entice people into believing a surface presentation, and hope they don’t lift the covers until the con has been completed.

The LDS Church spends millions of dollars on PR, cultivating the “wholesome” image. They drill the idea of "kindness"into their members heads.

It is an act. Meant to impress not only outsiders, but themselves. It is not a fruit of the Holy Spirt, but one of repeated and socially enforced indoctrination…
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Yes yes yes Ms Rebecca!!! I couldn’t have said it better myself, but you have hit the nail directly on the head, so to speak.👍 Before living in Utah, I accepted the wholesome oh so nice PR (aka propaganda) of the mormons, but after living there in the heart of it all…:eek:…it’s a straight up pyramid scheming cult that has a lot of financial resources to present themselves however they want, but it’s all surface!!!:mad:
 
I think I kind of bought in the their “PR” campaign as well. In the back of my mind I alway thought that Mormons were always nice and super Christian. Then I worked with a bunch and I found out they were just like anyone else. One would do anything to get promoted,including harming co-workers. One went home on a Sunday and ended his life and a group of them sat in a public setting and I overheard them saying some very bad things about others.

I am sure there are Mormons that are Christians and perform good works according to their faith, but I also see that others are doing it as a campaign. Not unlike how one of the local motorcycle “clubs” does a “Toys for Tots” drive to cement a positive image of themselves in the community.
 
Mort_Alz said:
A wonderful instruction from Our Lord, Jesus!

I have been raised Protestant, but I am gratefully exploring Catholicism. (I may find that it is my home). But, one thing I notice on these forums is that the Catholic answer to just about everything satisfies my soul except for its response to Mormonism. It seems Catholics just don’t know what to DO with Mormons. I’ve also heard statistics (I believe from articles on this website) that many Catholics are converting to Mormonism.

Before we get started, please note that I am not looking for “intellectual” or “historical” reasons why Mormonism is “wrong.” Two can play at that game and I do not have the mental patience at this time to sift through those “reasons.”

Right now, I would like to focus on the intriguing phenomenon of just how NICE Mormons are! Don’t pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about. If you have any doubts, just google “Why are Christians so…” and see what the assumptions are. Do the same with Mormonism. Under “Why are Christians so…” the assumptions are “hypocritical,” “miserable,” “mean,” “arrogant,” and many other nasty words. Under “Why are Mormons so…” the assumptions are “nice,” “friendly,” “happy,” “peaceful.” I’ve also noticed that Mormons are much better than Catholics in practice of having kids!

In my home congregation, most conversion stories I hear are of people “noticing something” in the lives of Christians that is very mystical. They reckon they want a piece of it, and then joyously discover Christ. However, you begin to see my point that Mormons seem to have this “something” much more consistently then classical Christianity.

I consider myself an orthodox Christian, let’s just get that out of the way first. But, I am also trying to be honest here. Someone please give me a good explanation for the lack of practical application among Christians and the incredible “performance” (for lack of a better word) of Mormons.

thanks in advance (I generally like this forum and appreciate it, thanks)
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I can tell you first hand that there is absolutely no difference between Mormons and anyone else in humanity. I live in a small community and know one who is responsible for one of the biggest real estate scams in the region. If you mention his name, eyes roll imediately. He is one of the more prominent Mormons in this community.

This can and does happen in all segments of society, but Mormons have their share as well and certainly are no better or worse than anyone else. Their apples are shiney, but many of them still have worms in the middle.
 
The greatest number of ponzi schemes come out of Utah…and those that do all the work on the lower lines are the doggies…
 
Mort_Alz said:
A wonderful instruction from Our Lord, Jesus!

I consider myself an orthodox Christian, let’s just get that out of the way first. But, I am also trying to be honest here. Someone please give me a good explanation for the lack of practical application among Christians and the incredible “performance” (for lack of a better word) of Mormons.
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I’m a convert to LDS, previously a lapsed Catholic

I think there are several actions at play that answer your question.
  • LDS are relatively small in numbers. It’s much easier to look good comparing one Church of 14 million against the average performance of several billion Christians, from the thousands of other Christian denominations
  • LDS have a strong culture that yields the benefits you highlighted (It’s easy to criticize these aspects, but here I’m just trying to answer your question and am not claiming this is ideal for every person or church)
    • LDS have high expectations for their members; people are either active members, or they leave. The LDS put alot of effort into getting their lapsed members to engage fully again. Other churches seem to be very tolerant or enable low activity membership by a majority of their members.
    • LDS have a strong focus on knowing their scripture/teachings. After the regular service, there are 2 hrs of additional lessons. LDS Children also attend regular religous studies classes during the week. Studying the Gospel opens each of us up to increased guidance from the Holy Spirit (regardless of denomination)
    • LDS support their focus on the family with extensive activites for children of all ages, Thus, LDS kids have plenty of good role models and are likely to make friends with other LDS children
There are many more cultural aspects that I feel help contribute to good Christian living.
 
Tony,

You said some thing here that resonated with me…that Mormon parents have high expectations on their children.

I would say that there are Catholic parents in the past who saw the Catholic schools as reform schools, being there to straighten out their kids they couldn’t undo.

I put alot of effort into raising mine…but what was so hard was how lax and indulging many parents have become today…and how their laxity affects those children who were brought up in more disciplined homes.

The other thing, is that we live in a culture that has low expectations on its citizens…people can think alot about this…and see its ramifications in many situations.

I am one of those who would like meatless Friday’s to return, to have our children confirmed at a younger age like before, to have more Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, to kneeling for communion, and more Holy Days of obligation.

In a very fast changing world, we need to redefine our beliefs that the Kingdom of Christ is the Pearl of Great Price, and the road to hell is wide and easy…

My older son would comment on junk food, and ask me why is it that the stuff that is not good for you tastes so good, and the food that is healthy isn’t appealing…or ‘there’…being Christian was ‘just being nice’.
 
KathleenGee said:
The greatest number of ponzi schemes come out of Utah…
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Kathleen,

Those will interesting to find out about, since that has been rumored by others but I have never seen a list, nor seen a list of who was the originator of the scheme, nor seen what religion other than one case in recent memory and the perpetrator has gone to prison as he should. So, with the background you evidently have for your assertion, please present the list and the comparison with all the other states so that “greatest number” can be ascertained as accurate and well-documented rather than being a rumor.

Otherwise, it is just a rumor and the people actually living in Utah don’t even think about such a rumor because it is not part of their personal everyday experience except one news story out of St. George ( a retirement community near Nevada) that I noted, other than that people are warned not to do things that lead to identity theft or bank information theft, and more of that happens from out-of-state, often international influences such as an incoming phone call from an unknown party with a slick story.

Fortunately, Utahns are warned about such slick stories, but an elderly person is sometimes “taken for a ride” and they are especially warned because they are more trusting by nature than younger people. I think I’ve had the understanding that elderly people are warned about these kinds of possibilities in other states also.
 
I tend to see that Mormonism is dealt with fine by all Christian perspectives, including the Catholic one.

Mormonism rises and falls on the theory of the Great Apostasy. Once you disprove that, it’s over. For Catholics (and Orthodox, don’t want to forget them), if there as no apostasy, then Apostolic Succession has been maintained, and therefore, the entire claim by Joseph Smith as false. You can’t have two competing claims for Apostolic Succession and have both be true.
 
KathleenGee said:
Tony,

You said some thing here that resonated with me…that Mormon parents have high expectations on their children.

I would say that there are Catholic parents in the past who saw the Catholic schools as reform schools, being there to straighten out their kids they couldn’t undo.

I put alot of effort into raising mine…but what was so hard was how lax and indulging many parents have become today…and how their laxity affects those children who were brought up in more disciplined homes.

The other thing, is that we live in a culture that has low expectations on its citizens…people can think alot about this…and see its ramifications in many situations.

I am one of those who would like meatless Friday’s to return, to have our children confirmed at a younger age like before, to have more Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, to kneeling for communion, and more Holy Days of obligation.

In a very fast changing world, we need to redefine our beliefs that the Kingdom of Christ is the Pearl of Great Price, and the road to hell is wide and easy…

My older son would comment on junk food, and ask me why is it that the stuff that is not good for you tastes so good, and the food that is healthy isn’t appealing…or ‘there’…being Christian was ‘just being nice’.
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I think part of the reason of all these things is that the Christian Church in general in the past several decades has lost its sense of mission to the world. It has succumbed to the political correctness dogma, tried to act ‘just nice’, and hasn’t taken active stances on anything anymore. It is afraid. Mormonism, on the other hand, still clings aggressively to the notion that it is the restored Gospel, and therefore it is the mission of all Mormons to spread the faith. Very commendable. We no longer have that zeal.

We need a revival. Desparetely.
 
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