Byzantine Catholic Bishops at charismatic style Mass

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malphono said:
Maybe they didn’t know it was actually going to be a Ringling Brothers production but, in all likelihood, they had at least some idea of what was going to happen. If so, they should have politely declined the invitation.
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Ringling Brothers is much better quality and actually entertaining. 🙂

Their procession of elephants and other creatures better reflects the glory of God than this cacophony of follies.
 
Madaglan said:
The incense bowl bearers remind me of the cover of that TAN book with four nuns around a square Buddhist-style table.
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YES YES YES, that’s exactly what I was thinking about when I first saw it!
 
Madaglan said:
Ringling Brothers is much better quality and actually entertaining. 🙂

Their procession of elephants and other creatures better reflects the glory of God than this cacophony of follies.
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Hello! I’m back! ;)😛
 
TheosisM said:
YES YES YES, that’s exactly what I was thinking about when I first saw it!
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I just visited TAN books online. You can still see the front cover of the book there. The name of the book is Liturgical Time Bombs.

There are actually six, not four, nuns. My apologies.
 
Too bad they didn’t use more incense in the beginning.

Maybe then the fog would have hid everything from view.
 
This Mass looks to be more akin to the ceremonies of Pagan Greece and Rome then to Christian worship (and I imagine the pagan Romans did it a lot more stylishly at that…).
 
Formosus said:
This Mass looks to be more akin to the ceremonies of Pagan Greece and Rome then to Christian worship (and I imagine the pagan Romans did it a lot more stylishly at that…).
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Won’t find any disagreement from me! 👍
 
Formosus said:
This Mass looks to be more akin to the ceremonies of Pagan Greece and Rome then to Christian worship (and I imagine the pagan Romans did it a lot more stylishly at that…).
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Yesss … hence my earlier reference to the Vestal Virgins 😃
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
I want to clear the air by saying that this is NOT a “charismatic” Mass. Most of the charismatics that I know would cringe at seeing such a travisty. 😦
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Would you you prefer “California” mass? I agree, I have been at charismatic masses, and this is not typical of those that I have known. I am not a charismatic. I would say that this is definitely different from the east coast variety.
 
Madaglan said:
This clip from the Mass is too much:

youtube.com/watch?v=jv_SoGcL65A

It’s got that whole Cherubic Hymn thing going on… sort’a

:rolleyes:
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And women caressing a butcher-block. And of course more of those Hindu-temple incense pots a-waiving in the air. And oh … wicker baskets and what look like pitchers of kool-aid. This is so absolutely vile that the Vestal Virgins would be horrified. :eek:

You’re right: Ringling Brothers is better produced and is entertaining. This is nauseating. :mad: I couldn’t make it through the entire clip, but it doesn’t matter: no self-respecting bishop, Eastern or Western, should have been part of it. :mad:
 
The Ottaviani Intervention predicted this.

One could say it was prophetic.

Or one could also say it was foreseeable and logical, and the intended result.
 
Note from Moderator:

We’re heading into the territory of being uncharitable. Let’s use some temperance and charity as we get back to the topic of Eastern Catholic bishops offering a Divine Liturgy to those who attended the LA Religious Education Congress.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
 
Note from Moderator:

It was pointed out to me today that the opening post provided no topic for discussion. I propose the topic of discussion be why the bishops chose to participate in a Mass which did not adhere to the Latin tradition and/or what they did at the conference. Presumptions, especially uncharitable ones, against any of the clergy involved is not an appropriate response.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
 
First off, the Eastern Catholic bishops probably knew what they would witness at the 2010 congress. At least one Eastern Catholic bishop attended the congress in 2009. See 1:56 youtube.com/watch?v=JB2WS8-BYoI.

So why did the Eastern Catholic bishops attend the congress in 2010?
My thoughts are:
  1. they were invited by their brethren Latin bishops and considered that a rejection would not be an appropriate response.
  2. they thought they could publicize the Eastern Catholic churches (around 40,000 Catholics were in attendance). In one of the clips, each Eastern bishop and the eparchy of which he is head is presented to the audience. Many of those who had no clue about the Eastern Catholics gained an awareness by attending this congress.
I do not now of any written or spoken evidence of the bishops to either effect, but I believe these points are reasonable considerations.
 
Catherine_Grant said:
Note from Moderator:

…I propose the topic of discussion be why the bishops chose to participate in a Mass which did not adhere to the Latin tradition and/or what they did at the conference.
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As I mentioned in my previous post, I am grateful for the EC clergy who attended the conference. They provided an important evangelization to many who had not previous exposure to the Divine Liturgy and to EC clergy. I’m sure my DRE wasn’t the only one deeply affected by this exposure to the East.

I hope this post quoted here helps. It was posted on another forum and as you can see the poster gives permission to share it. (I specifically named this forum in asking him to post it here.) The bold emphasis is mine not his.
Hi Marylouise,
I’m not a member of that forum, and don’t really have time to join another one. life right now is very busy. If you’re a member, though, and would like to place my post there, I’d be glad for you to do it.
J
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…I wanted to share a little background with you about Bishop Gerald’s presence at that conference. I cannot speak for Bishop, of course, but I can give you some context for what was going on.** Last year, Bishop decided the eparchy would have a vendor booth at the conference, to disseminate information on the Eastern Catholic Churches to the conference attendees**. Bishop Gerald, one of our Basilian sisters, the pastor of my local parish, and myself went. We had a booth with many books on Eastern Christianity, plus icons, prayer ropes, etc. We also had lots of free literature about the history and spirituality of the Eastern Catholic Churches. **Over the course of the 3 days, we had the opportunity to talk to hundreds of people who stopped by our booth. Some of these conversations were of real depth. Also, Fr Pipta from our church in San Diego gave a talk on Eastern Catholicism at one of the sessions on the conference schedule.
**
At the end of the conference, I did (hesitantly) attend the concluding Mass. It was pretty much the same as what they seem to have done this year. I have very little post VII RC experience, and so I was stunned and even horrified by what I saw. I cried for a bit as I sat there. And, yes, in some ways, it seemed very much like a Protestant mega-church service. To some of us, it felt more like a performance than a worship service. However, at the moment of the consecration, I understood that Our Lord was present, just as He is in the Byzantine liturgy I so love. For me, the form of that Mass was tragic and caused me great sorrow, but I believe that it is still a Mass.

For this year’s conference, Bishop decided we would again have a booth, and the eparchy was also able to arrange to have a Byzantine liturgy on the conference schedule. Bishop Gerald concelebrated the liturgy with several priests of the eparchy. We had deacons, servers, choir, etc. We didn’t know how many people would show up, but 1200 conference attendees came to our liturgy in a transformed hotel ballroom! Fr Rankin, the pastor of St Melany’s here in Tucson, gave a talk to the attendees just prior to the start of the liturgy, explaining what they were about to see, and giving them some background and context for it.

I wasn’t able to go this year, but when I inventoried the books that came back (our entire little bookstore had gone on the road to the conference), I discovered that we had sold almost every copy of every title we had that related to the Byzantine liturgy. I’m sure this was a direct result of people having attended our liturgy, as last year, not a single title on Byzantine liturgy sold.

I know that last year many of the people who came by our booth expressed how glad they were that there was an Eastern Catholic presence at the conference. And many catechists who came by took materials to share with their students.

While I don’t always agree with all the decisions and policies of the Byzantine Ruthenian Church in the US, I do think there was a good purpose served both years in our being at this conference. We were like a little oasis, and there were people who came to drink of our water.

Hope you’re all having a blessed and fruitful Great Fast,

J
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It made me so sad to watch this: youtube.com/watch?v=jv_SoGcL65A

😦

if I went to a parish like this I would leave immediately! I’m glad the Masses in my area are done according to the rubrics…

I can’t believe they used those glass pitchers and baskets for the Eucharist. Doesn’t it say in the rubrics it should be gold or silver or another precious metal (NOT glass)? So disrespectful of Our Lord!! 😦 and the ‘dancing’ around the altar… :rolleyes:

btw, I know several charismatic Catholics but they love tradition too and I don’t think they would have liked this Mass either. I dont think it’s charismatic, it’s just modernist and NOT Catholic… even though the Eucharist was still valid.

It was more like a concert in a Protestant church than the Holy Mass.

Also, people weren’t kneeling during the Consecration!

there was just so much wrong there!
 
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