C. Mahony sells convent to pay settlement "Facing their Convent's Closure"

[SuscipeMeDomine]

A $50,000,000 art collection was bequeathed to U of San Diego. The archdiocese of LA was supposed to be the conservatore, the guardian. It was displayed in the library. Workmen came in one day and hauled it all off. Anyone know where it went?

Do you have a source for that? Because the University of San Diego belongs to the diocese of San Diego. Why would the archdiocese of Los Angeles have a connection with it?

And to Cobbfmly, yes, the cathedral has kneelers. Now does it meet your standards?

 

[sprout]

Do the “boxes” by the legs of the pews contain the kneelers, are they hidden someplace else or were they left out?

Probably left out, although I can’t say for sure since I haven’t actually had the opportunity to participate in a Mass at the Cathedral of Our Lady of Angels.

btw: Since we’re SOOOO OFF TOPIC - I have yet to see an MC Chapel that has kneelers or chairs for that matter. They’re very humble. Here’s a pic:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Cobbfmly]

And to Cobbfmly, yes, the cathedral has kneelers. Now does it meet your standards?

It wasn’t a matter of it meeting my standards or not. I was wondering because they are not visible in the picture. I have never before seen pews where no kneelers are visible unless they had never been installed or had been removed. So, how do they hide them to have the clean view under the pews?

 

[grandfather]

Why would the archdiocese of Los Angeles have a connection with it?

The collection was left in a will. It was housed in USD as I recall with the LA archdiocese responsible for its care. It was removed and reported on after at the time, probably more than a decade ago, but the archdiocese refused to answer any questions about why or where it went. I would have no way of locating the news articles, but remember there were a number of people upset.

 

[sprout]

Santa Barbara is a popular vacation spot and therefore has a large population of service employees who are typically working poor (low income relative to cost of living, no insurance, mostly unskilled immigrants, etc). These would be the poor that these sisters care for.

when you consider cost of housing in with cost of living then it does make you wonder how anyone but the richest can afford to live and work in Santa Barbara. I do wonder whether these “working poor” actually live in Santa Barbara and how they can afford rent? I think it’s much more likely they live in Isla Vista, La Conchita, and surrounding communities.

If you haven’t already guessed I’m familiar with the area.

 

[Cobbfmly]

when you consider cost of housing in with cost of living then it does make you wonder how anyone but the richest can afford to live and work in Santa Barbara. I do wonder whether these “working poor” actually live in Santa Barbara and how they can afford rent? I think it’s much more likely they live in Isla Vista, La Conchita, and surrounding communities.

If you haven’t already guessed I’m familiar with the area.

They may. I am not familiar with how good the public transportation in the area is and if it is feasible to live in a surrounding community and work in Santa Barbara without owning a vehicle.

The closest comparisons I have here are the San Francisco Bay area and Lake Tahoe where there are no “inexpensive” surounding communities.

 

[Lepanto]

And to Cobbfmly, yes, the cathedral has kneelers. Now does it meet your standards?

Actually, it’s the bishops’ standard, not Cobbfmly’s.

And where are they? Were they removed for the photographer?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Actually, it’s the bishops’ standard, not Cobbfmly’s.

And where are they? Were they removed for the photographer?

Ya know, it’s weird to have to go Googling for pictures when I know I’ve been there and there were kneelers. But oh well…here are a couple of pictures where you can see them. Don’t know what this has to do with the nuns in the title of this thread, but here you go.

http://www.johnnyjet.com/images/PicfornewsletterFeb272003LACathedral64.JPG
http://www.brooksrosenquist.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/wed05.JPG

 

[mystified]

It would not be unreasonable to suppose that the working poor of Santa Bárbara do as their counterparts in not-very-cheap Orange County. Namely, two or three families to a dwelling. Example: 15 persons, infant to senior citizen, in a two bedroom house or apartment.

 

[Walt_Oliver]

The cathedral has been cussed and discussed in a number of threads. This one is about the eviction of the nuns. Let’s get back on topic, please.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I"m guessing you have not personally seen OLA.

You DON"T compare it with great cathedrals of the past. It is not a Cathedral of the past. But it is a place where the great Liturgy of the Church (if the present Ordinary were so inclined) could be celebrated with dignity. The architect deeply understood the movement of the Mass and created a structure that celebrates the place of the Mass at the center of the created universe.

And MAN! Them alabaster walls! No windows – just pure, perfect light infusing the space as if coming from everywhere at once . . . .

Could not tell. Are there kneelers?

Is there a place for Adoration or kneelers near the Tabrinacle for people to pray?

Any small private chapels for those that want to have private time with Christ?

 

[mercygate]

Could not tell. Are there kneelers?

Is there a place for Adoration or kneelers near the Tabrinacle for people to pray?

Any small private chapels for those that want to have private time with Christ?

We should get back to the thread topic BUT: There are kneelers. The Blessed Sacrament chapel is hidden safely along one of the outside aisles (don’t forget: this is a public space with lots of tourist traffic; people who want to pray are “protected” by this arrangement.

The Blessed Sacrament chapel is small and beautiful. In a place like this, I consider the fact that you have to look for it a plus: only those who know where they are going, go there. When we visited, it was never without people in prayer. The Sacrament is not exposed, however.

 

[Tepeyac]

when you consider cost of housing in with cost of living then it does make you wonder how anyone but the richest can afford to live and work in Santa Barbara. I do wonder whether these “working poor” actually live in Santa Barbara and how they can afford rent? I think it’s much more likely they live in Isla Vista, La Conchita, and surrounding communities.

If you haven’t already guessed I’m familiar with the area.

I am also familiar with the area.

I can assure you that plenty of working poor live in Santa Barbara, especially in the Eastside where the convent is located. The convent is only a few blocks from Haley St., one of the seediest areas in town (one corner was notorious for drug dealing in the past) and where the Catholic Charities offices are located. A few blocks in the other direction is the Rescue Mission (homeless shelter) and the place where day laborers gather to look for work.

Like someone mentioned a lot of people squeeze into studios or apartments, or converted garages. The neighborhood called the Lower Westside is also like that, as is Isla Vista where plenty of students live as well (it’s next to the University of California Santa Barbara).

The weekly newspaper “The Santa Barbara Independant” has done stories on SB’s immigrants and working poor in the past. Perhaps you might find be able to find some of those stories archived online somewhere.

As for transportation, the bus system is okay but not great. It can be hard at night because fewer lines run and they run less frequently. If you work late at night in Isla Vista (say, as a janitor at the university) it takes 40 to 50 minutes to reach downtown (because of all the stops). Since the line to the Eastside stops around 9:30 -10 pm., if you miss that bus it takes about 20 to 30 minutes to reach Milpas St (the main shopping street in the Eastiside) on foot and another 10 to 20 minutes to reach the convent. You could get there faster if you walked diagonally across town but there are a couple of areas I would avoid at that time of night.

The city buses don’t go to La Conchita (which is in Ventura County). Unless Greyhound or the commuter service to Ventura makes a stop there you would need a car.

Santa Barbara has also been known for its homeless population. Homeless activist Mitch Snyder made news in the 80s for his visit to the city. You can read about it in the book “Homeless in Paradise”, which you can find on Amazon.com.

Santa Barbara is beautiful. It’s not Skid Row but it’s not Palm Beach or Beverly Hills either and there are plenty of people for the sisters to serve even if they’re not visible to visitors or the well-to-do who have moved up from L.A… I’d like to write more but i’m tired, so I’ll just leave a link from a story in the Independent:

independent.com/news/2007/sep/11/save-eastsides-sisters-bethany/

 

[sprout]

Could not tell. Are there kneelers?

Is there a place for Adoration or kneelers near the Tabrinacle for people to pray?

Any small private chapels for those that want to have private time with Christ?

Yes. Yes. and Yes.

You must’ve missed post #88

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Weird article in the paper today.

“The head nun of the Sisters of Bethany said she had considered selling the convent even before the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles announced that the structure would be sold to help pay for the multimillion-dollar priest sex abuse settlement.”

mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6902481

How can you sell property you don’t own?

Yesterday there was another article:

Three Nuns who have been told to move out of their Santa Barbara convent so it can be sold to help the Archdiocese of Los Angeles pay a multi-million-dollar sex abuse settlement will not be allowed to remain in Santa Barbara city limits under any circumstances, according to Ernie Salomon, a spokesman for Save Our Sisters, a group formed to ensure the sisters continue to reside in their East Side neighborhood.

Salomon said the three sisters have been told by their superiors in Los Angeles and Guatemala that they can no longer speak publicly about the Archdiocese’s’ decision to evict them and that even if enough money is raised to purchase the home, the will have to leave.

sbdailysound.blogspot.com/2007/09/church-says-get-out-of-town.html

Anyone have a clue about any of this?

 

[sprout]

Weird article in the paper today.

How can you sell property you don’t own?

Yesterday there was another article:

Salomon said the three sisters have been told by their superiors in Los Angeles and Guatemala that they can no longer speak publicly about the Archdiocese’s’ decision to evict them and that even if enough money is raised to purchase the home, the will have to leave.

no, but it makes perfect sense to me that the superior would take issue with these nuns’ outspokeness…that’s what superiors do…demand obediance.

 

[sprout]

Our plan was to expand the property we own in Oxnard so they can live there, especially since Sister Angela needs lots of care and attention due to her limited condition

and I’ll bet they’ll find alot more “poor” in Oxnard than in Santa Barabara to care for.

 

[Tepeyac]

Sprout,

I must take issue with your last couple of posts. They have not sought out publicity. The news media have come to them and now that their superior has asked them not to speak publicly they will obey. Nor have they been outspoken either, simply described what their feeling which is, understandably, shocked.

I also thought that my previous post made clear that there is indeed a need for their help, that poverty does exist in Santa Barbara. If that wasn’t clear here are a few links:

The rise of home prices and poverty in SB County, 20% of households make less than $25,000.00 a year:
independent.com/news/2007/apr/20/home-prices-and-poverty-levels-rise-says-ucsb-econ/

A story on SB county’s “homeless czar” (there are 6,000 homeless men, women and children in SB County):
independent.com/news/2007/apr/20/home-prices-and-poverty-levels-rise-says-ucsb-econ/

A few months ago a boy was murdered during a gang fight in downtown Santa Barbara, ironically he died in the parking lot behind a Saks Fifth Avenue store. Story here:
independent.com/news/2007/mar/22/teen-slain-downtown-rumble/

A few months ago there was another stabbing. Here’s another story on local gangs:
independent.com/news/2005/jul/07/santa-barbara-gangsters/

Here’s a link to community activist organization:
sbpueblo.org/

This last type of organization isn’t everybody’s cup of tea but it does demonstrate a need. As the website states:

"Santa Barbara County is home to one of the wealthiest communities in the United States, yet there is tremendous poverty throughout our County. Santa Barbara County has the highest rate of uninsured children in the State, and the economy is dominated by low-wage jobs in the service, tourist, and agricultural industries. "

Transition House, a shelter for homeless families:
transitionhouse.com/

The Santa Barbara Rescue Mission:
sbrm.org/

The Santa Barbara Food Bank:
foodbanksbc.org/about.html

Another worthy organization, the Unity Shoppe. 69% of the people they serve make less than $1,300.00 a month:
unityshoppe.org/unityvision.htm

The Unity Shoppe also points out that the homeless shelters in Santa Barbara have a capacity of less than 400 beds. This in a county with 6,000 homeless.

One of the sisters continues to volunteer at Catholic Charities, just a couple of blocks away. Here is their Annual Report for 2004:
catholiccharitiesla.org/annual_2004/annual2004_15.html

Not only am I as familiar with the area as you are (if not more so), I am also very acquainted with the parish where the sisters live.

The convent is smack dab next to the parish church, and only a low brick wall (not 4 feet high) seperates the buildings. They have continued to serve the parish with many ways, such as in religious education or during the parish fiesta which is the single biggest fund raiser the parish has. One of the sisters is a reader and often chants the psalm at Mass. The sisters are always visible in their full habits. What a valuable witness that is.

You really have no reason to be dismissive of the sisters, their behaviour, their service to the community, or to the community they serve. I’m sorry that this is such a long post but for someone to write that way about them is wrong.

I ask that readers please pray to Our Lady of Guadalupe, St. Juan Diego, and the saints Lazarus, Mary, & Martha that a few hearts may be softened.

Thank you.

 

[sprout]

You really have no reason to be dismissive of the sisters, their behaviour, their service to the community, or to the community they serve. I’m sorry that this is such a long post but for someone to write *that way *about them is wrong.

I fail to see how you could so wrongly misinterpret my posts as being dismissive of the Sisters of Bethany .

I’m sorry you felt I was being “dismissive” of the sisters by pointing out that *there are other less wealthy communities *the sisters could find to serve the poor.

Nor is it being “dismissive” to point out that the superior general has every right to demand silence and obediance as that is what Superior Generals generally do. Especially when the media prints:

“We’re just so hurt by this,” Sister Angela Escalera, the order’s local superior, told the Times . “And what hurts the most is what the money will be used for, to help pay for the pedophile priests. We have to sacrifice our home for that?”

The communication of the decision to sell the convent lies between the Archdiocese and the Superior General of the Sisters of Bethany, and not between the archdiocese and the the individual sisters living in the convent. It is the responsibility, then, of the the Superior General to communicate any changes in living arrangements with the sisters.

Some have insinuated that Cardinal Mahony has been derelict by not informing the sisters himself because they fail to understand properly the chain of command. This failure of the media and some posters here to understand both the chain of command, the level of deference to authority and obediance required within religious communities, and trust in God has led to quite a bit of namecalling and unfair criticism of Archbishop Mahony.

Yes, indeed, please pray to Our Lady of Guadalupe, St. Juan Diego, and the saints Lazarus, Mary, & Martha that a few hearts may be softened.

 

[Tepeyac]

I fail to see how you could so wrongly misinterpret my posts as being dismissive of the Sisters of Bethany .

I’m sorry you felt I was being “dismissive” of the sisters by pointing out that there are other less wealthy communities the sisters could find to serve the poor.

I think you are being dismissive because first you expressed skepticism that there are any poor to serve in Santa Barbara at all (“Kinda makes you wonder who these “poor” are that the sisters care for?”). The links I posted demonstrate otherwise (homeless, gang killings, etc). Then you dismiss the need again by bringing up Oxnard (“and I’ll bet they’ll find alot more “poor” in Oxnard than in Santa Barabara to care for.”).

By that logic they should be moving to L.A.'s Skid Row, since they’ll find even more poor there. A need in one area should not cause us to neglect a need in another. Otherwise all of our social services would be in Skid Row and nowhere else. It’s interesting that you wrote the word poor in quotation marks.

That you used Isla Vista and La Conchita as examples makes me think you’re not that familiar with the area. The rents in Isla Vista are as expensive as anywhere else in Santa Barbara and not only is La Conchita unreachable by the SB’s public transport, it’s a tiny community squished between the freeway and the mountains on a shelf of land above the sea. It was nearly buried in a landslide a few of years ago.

Nor is it being “dismissive” to point out that the superior general has every right to demand silence and obediance as that is what Superior Generals generally do.

You did not point out that the Superior General was within her rights to ask for obedience. You accused the sister of being outspoken (“it makes perfect sense to me that the superior would take issue with these nuns’ outspokeness”) and implied that they were being disobedient ("…that’s what superiors do…demand obediance."). The sister’s superior didn’t ask them to remain quiet until a few days ago.They didn’t seek out the media, the media came to them.

The communication of the decision to sell the convent lies between the Archdiocese and the Superior General of the Sisters of Bethany, and not between the archdiocese and the the individual sisters living in the convent. It is the responsibility, then, of the the Superior General to communicate any changes in living arrangements with the sisters.

Surely, the order communicates with the sisters regularly on lots of other issues, if only normal day to day matters of running the order. Why not this issue? It’s a convent that has been established for decades. It’s thoroughly involved in parish life. The sisters believed they’d live there the rest of their lives. If the matter of moving the convent was being considered for a long time, why had the issue never come up before? Why did the communication from the Archdiocese to the sisters make no mention of that? Why is the order’s communication coming all the way from Guatemala, rather than from the house in L.A.? Why is this only coming up now, after all the news and criticism?

Some have insinuated that Cardinal Mahony has been derelict by not informing the sisters himself because they fail to understand properly the chain of command. This failure of the media and some posters here to understand both the chain of command, the level of deference to authority and obediance required within religious communities, and trust in God has led to quite a bit of namecalling and unfair criticism of Archbishop Mahony.

I think there are a lot of well-informed Catholics on this forum and many of them do understand matters of authority and obedience. In light of much of what has happened in the Archdiocese it is reasonable for people to be upset. The handling of this matter leaves a lot to be desired and it is reasonable to question the motivations and handling of it.

Pray to Our Lady of Guadalupe, St. Juan Diego, and the saints Lazarus, Mary, & Martha that a few hearts may be softened.