C. Mahony sells convent to pay settlement "Facing their Convent's Closure"

[sprout]

QUOTE=Tepeyac;2730479I think you are being dismissive because first you expressed skepticism that there are any poor to serve in Santa Barbara at all (“Kinda makes you wonder who these “poor” are that the sisters care for?”). … Then you dismiss the need again by bringing up Oxnard (“and I’ll bet they’ll find alot more “poor” in Oxnard than in Santa Barabara to care for.”).

It’s true that Santa Barbara is a much, much, much wealthier community than Isla Vista, La Conchita and especially Oxnard. (The difference between Santa Barbara and Oxnard is like the difference between Bel Air and Compton. It’s true that if the sisters were to relocate to Oxnard they will, indeed, find many more “poor” than they will find in their current location. I don’t see why you have a problem with this fact and insist that I’m being “dismissive” of the Sisters of Bethany for pointing out a simple, true, fact.

You did not point out that the Superior General was within her rights to ask for obedience. You accused the sister of being outspoken (“it makes perfect sense to me that the superior would take issue with these nuns’ outspokeness”) and implied that they were being disobedient ("…that’s what superiors do…demand obediance.").

You again misinterpret in a most unfavorable way what I have said. Sister Angela Escalera, the order’s local superior, told the Times .

“And what hurts the most is what the money will be used for, to help pay for the pedophile priests. We have to sacrifice our home for that?”

Sounds a little on the “outspoken” side to me and I can only imagine how this statement to the media was received by her superiors. IMO speaking to the media in such a manner is not in keeping with a sister’s station in life. Proper discretion is to be expected from a religious, especially an order’s local superior. Had Sister Angela Escalera followed the proper respect, decorum and channels and spoken with Sister Gomez her provincial superior for the Sisters of Bethany Order in Los Angeles *before talking to the media *she would have discovered that the Superior General had been planning for some time to relocate them in an effort to care for her aging needs.

Mother Luz Elena Ordonez Quezada wrote that she had intended to move the nuns after Escalera, 69, had retired two or three years ago. “Our plan was to expand the property we own in Oxnard so they can live there, especially since Sister Angela needs lots of care and attention due to her limited condition,” Quezada wrote from Guatemala.

QUOTE=Tepeyac;2730479
If the matter of moving the convent was being considered for a long time, why had the issue never come up before? Why did the communication from the Archdiocese to the sisters make no mention of that? Why is the order’s communication coming all the way from Guatemala, rather than from the house in L.A.? Why is this only coming up now, after all the news and criticism?

This is just silly speculation and unecessarily suspicious. That’s not the way the Church works. It’s not run like a business, it’s run more like a family with a Mother Superior looking after her children and the children are expected to show deference, patience, trust and respect to the Mother Superior. Some of the communication is coming from the house in LA (Sister Gomez is the provincial superior for the Sisters of Bethany Order in Los Angeles) and some communication is coming from Guatemala (Mother Luz Elena Ordonez Quezada). The article quoted said that the letter from Mother Quezada arrived on Thursday, from Guatemala, that’s two days after “all the news and criticism”. The letter had to have been mailed well before “all the news and criticism” in order to arrive on Thursday from Guatemala.

You seem much more interested in attributing malicious intents to both myself, the Archdiocese, and even the Sisters of Bethany provincials, than in seeking a favorable interpretation so I will end my discussion with you with this quote from the Catechism:

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.279

 

[rpp]

I fail to see how you could so wrongly misinterpret my posts as being dismissive of the Sisters of Bethany .

Well, you may not be able to see it, but I also believed you were rather dismissive and apathetic to the plight of these elderly sisters.

 

[rpp]

The article quoted said that the letter from Mother Quezada arrived on Thursday, from Guatemala, that’s two days after “all the news and criticism”. The letter had to have been mailed well before “all the news and criticism” in order to arrive on Thursday from Guatemala.

Have you every heard of of Federal Express, DHL or the Internet?

 

[HollyDolly]

I can understand Sister being upset that they are selling the convent.If it was being sold so that a battered women’s shelter,or public health clinic or trade school for the poor was being built fine,the sisters would understand and most likely have no problems with that.But for them to lose their home because the Archdiocese did nothing to stop or prevent this abuse when there was plenty of oppertunity is just plain wrong.

Yes Sister was outspoken,but she is voicing what I’m sure is the feeling of other communities that may have to do the same thing.
Sure, the sisters should be obiedient to their superiors,but they are also human like the rest of us too.
Why doens’t Cardinal Mahoney sell his home,to pay off some of the debt? Ha Ha ain’t happening.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think the sisters operate in a diocese only with permission of the Bishop. Unless they are prepared to leave, I would expect them to low key any differences with him.

 

[sprout]

Have you every heard of of Federal Express, DHL or the Internet?

Yes. As a matter of fact about a year ago one of the Missionaries of Charity sisters wanted me to overnight something for her to Central America. When I took her package to the Post Office they said they could not “overnight” to that country.

as far as sending the letter by internet? the article did not say they received an email, it said they received **a letter **from Guatemala.

But the order’s general superior indicated in a letter Thursday that there been a plan to sell the convent for years. Mother Luz Elena Ordonez Quezada wrote that she had intended to move the nuns after Escalera, 69, had retired two or three years ago.

mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6902481

 

[sprout]

Well, you may not be able to see it, but I also believed you were rather dismissive and apathetic to the plight of these elderly sisters.

I actually think I have more trust in God through the sister’s provencials to provide for their needs.

 

[rpp]

I actually think I have more trust in God through the sister’s provencials to provide for their needs.

Mare than what? Or whom?

 

[rpp]

Yes. As a matter of fact about a year ago one of the Missionaries of Charity sisters wanted me to overnight something for her to Central America. When I took her package to the Post Office they said they could not “overnight” to that country.

as far as sending the letter by internet? the article did not say they received an email, it said they received **a letter **from Guatemala.

A quick check at the FedX web site and I learned that overnight service from my home zip code to in the USA to Guatemala City is available.

 

[sprout]

Mare than what? Or whom?

I was responding to:

Originally Posted by rpp
Well, you may not be able to see it, but I also believed you were rather dismissive and apathetic to the plight of these elderly sisters.

I actually think I have more trust in God through the sister’s provencials to provide for their needs.

so to answer your question “more than what or whom?”

I have more trust in God through the sister’s provencials to provide for their needs than I am “apathetic to the plight of these elderly sisters” as you claim. I couldn’t possibly be “apathetic to their plight” when I place my trust in God to provide for them.

A trust that is borne out in the fact that the Provincial General has already been making plans for the sisters’ needs. I’ve found this is usually the case in my own life when I am unduly concerned about my own security only to discover that God had me covered all along. His plans for me are always better than the plans I make for myself. So I’ve learned to place my trust in Him.

 

[redbird444]

I was born and raised in Los Angeles (now reside in OK), but only recently became a catholic. I never belonged to any other religion.

While on vacation, I visited the cathedral in LA on New Years Eve for a high mass which I had never seen before.

I loved the experience. I have to agree the inside of the LA cathedral is amazing and the murals of saints were beautiful. Like a small child, I am always amazed at catholic churches, the quietness and the holiness within always touch me regardless of the whirlwind of chaos from the world.

Bear in mind, as a recent convert, my primary function at any mass is that of a man who had spent his entire life in sin. I also loved seeing all the different races/nations represented at the Mass. A truly universal congregation.

The only thing sadder than the scandals and the feeble attempts to cover the costs is the way people on this forum are lining up with their stones to cast at Cardinal Mahoney. Even if he deserves it, I would bet my soul not one of the members who posted their disgust is without sin. Mahoney’s sins are just more public than ours.

We each have our sins to bear and Cardinal Mahoney, like the rest of us, will answer for his.

Now, I will step aside and allow the public outrage and stoning to continue. I am not defending the actions of Mahoney, just sharing my experience.

 

[Tepeyac]

It’s true that Santa Barbara is a much, much, much wealthier community than Isla Vista, La Conchita and especially Oxnard. (The difference between Santa Barbara and Oxnard is like the difference between Bel Air and Compton. It’s true that if the sisters were to relocate to Oxnard they will, indeed, find many more “poor” than they will find in their current location. I don’t see why you have a problem with this fact and insist that I’m being “dismissive” of the Sisters of Bethany for pointing out a simple, true, fact.

You did not simply point out a fact. You expressed skepticism at the sister’s work in Santa Barbara and then you bring up the poor in Oxnard in response to a story that never mentions them. You were dismissive by, among other things, writing the word poor in quotation marks as though they weren’t really poor.

But that was never given as the reason for the move in the news stories. Neither the letter from the Archdiocese nor, as far as I can tell from news reports, the letter from the Superior General state that. The Archdiocese said it was to pay for the settlement. You’ve shifted the conversation away from that.

I don’t think you know the area very well. If you to walked down Nopal St. where the sisters live, or Haley, Yanonali, Punta Gorda and Rancheria streets would you really say it’s just like Bel Air? Would you stand next to the day laborers on Yanonali and tell them its like Bel Air?

Oprah Winfrey and the movie stars have their mansions in Montecito. That would be like Bel Air. The people who clean their houses, tend their gardens and wash their cars live in the Eastside, where the sisters live. Santa Barbara has all sorts of different neighborhoods. The Westside or De La Vina street aren’t much like Bel Air either.

I’m sorry to go on about the geography of the area but it was Sprout who made an issue of the poor and that he or she is familiar with the area. Well, so am I.

By the way, another poster wrote about service workers squeezing into apartments in Orange County so they could afford the rents. This is a familiar situation throughout Southern California so it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone in the Archdiocese of L.A. that it’s the case in Santa Barbara.

To be continued in a following post…

 

[Tepeyac]

Had Sister Angela Escalera followed the proper respect, decorum and channels and spoken with Sister Gomez her provincial superior for the Sisters of Bethany Order in Los Angeles *before talking to the media *she would have discovered that the Superior General had been planning for some time to relocate them in an effort to care for her aging needs.

Had Sister Gomez spoken with Sister Angela and warned her of the order’s and the archdiocese’s plans beforehand, Sister Angela would have been better prepared to deal with news reporters at the door. She would not have been caught off guard by the eviction or the reporters.

Sister Angela has been sick for some time and retired for 3 years. Any proposed arrangements regarding her health would have been discussed with her already, no? If moving to another house to take better care of her health was a possibility she would have already been aware of it, no?

The original letter from the diocese, as far as I can tell from news reports, did not mention any plans already being considered by the order, or that it had been expected.

This is just silly speculation and unecessarily suspicious. That’s not the way the Church works. It’s not run like a business,

It’s not silly or unnecessarily suspicious. The History of the past 5 years has shown abundantly that the Church does not always run the way it should. It should come as no surprise that this would bring up questions on a public forum, and perhaps leave some unsatisfied.

…it’s run more like a family with a Mother Superior looking after her children and the children are expected to show deference, patience, trust and respect to the Mother Superior…

This is why people are upset. Parents are also expected to show love, concern, and consideration for their children. And a bishop is supposed to be good shepherd and look after his sheep. People are having a difficult time reconciling that with eviction notices and delayed messages.

Some of the communication is coming from the house in LA (Sister Gomez is the provincial superior for the Sisters of Bethany Order in Los Angeles) and some communication is coming from Guatemala (Mother Luz Elena Ordonez Quezada). The article quoted said that the letter from Mother Quezada arrived on Thursday, from Guatemala, that’s two days after “all the news and criticism”. The letter had to have been mailed well before “all the news and criticism” in order to arrive on Thursday from Guatemala.

That Thursday would have been the 13th. The “news and criticism” broke out almost a week before when the L.A. Times published a story on September 7th. Word must have already spread before that in order for the L.A. Times to know. The letter from the archdiocese was received in late August. The Archdiocese’s letter itself was dated in June.

You seem much more interested in attributing malicious intents to both myself, the Archdiocese, and even the Sisters of Bethany provincials, than in seeking a favorable interpretation so I will end my discussion with you with this quote from the Catechism:

What I have written is based on published reports, or they are first hand descriptions of the area. I have asked questions, I have sought to not state motives.

You don’t know that I haven’t sought a positive interpretation of the Archdiocese or the provinicials. You don’t know how long I’ve thought this over. I did not post on this thread until the 12th on page 7. I think the fact that days went by before I posted here, the care with which I’ve written my posts, and the familiarity I’ve demonstrated with Santa Barbara, the sisters, and the people they serve demonstrate the thought that I’ve put into this. I would appreciate it if you would not make rash judgments of my motives on your part.

 

[rpp]

I was responding to:

so to answer your question “more than what or whom?”

I have more trust in God through the sister’s provencials to provide for their needs than I am “apathetic to the plight of these elderly sisters” as you claim. I couldn’t possibly be “apathetic to their plight” when I place my trust in God to provide for them.

A trust that is borne out in the fact that the Provincial General has already been making plans for the sisters’ needs. I’ve found this is usually the case in my own life when I am unduly concerned about my own security only to discover that God had me covered all along. His plans for me are always better than the plans I make for myself. So I’ve learned to place my trust in Him.

Thank you and I appreciate this. This is a reasonable attitude. It was simply not clear from your posts.

 

[anamchara]

I fail to see how you could so wrongly misinterpret my posts as being dismissive of the Sisters of Bethany .

I read through this whole post sprout and I don’t know how they misinterpreted you either. You were being honest and bringing up some good points. Your post did not seem dismissive at all.

:twocents:

 

[johnstown_johnn]

My goodness! Definitely not my taste. What is that building?

Looks like something form “The Planet of the Apes.” It is so abstract that it appears primitive.

 

[sprout]

I read through this whole post sprout and I don’t know how they misinterpreted you either. You were being honest and bringing up some good points. Your post did not seem dismissive at all.

 

[FrCorey]

**I looked in the paper today, I see the church is putting a lot of nuns out of thier homes in LA, CA to pay for the 660 million in settlements for the 120+ priests cases. hmm, maybe they can make a deal with a near by motel 6. I guess thier old homes are worth some bucks, poor sisters.
**

 

[wardrandolph]

Have you ever heard of the oughts and the any’s?Respectfully, Rocky.

 

[Dale_M]

Have you ever heard of the oughts and the any’s?

Rocky, I haven’t heard of the phrase you mentioned. Could you explain it?

Fr Corey, the Washington Post recently mentioned the closing of two convents consisting of five nuns total. The beginning of the article makes the situation sound as if the archdiocese is closing convents right and left. While the closings are regrettable (I wish the archdiocese had used a different approach) I am not aware that the Church is putting “a lot of nuns” out of their homes.

Is it possible for you to link to the newspaper article which you read?