Cadaver Synod - Is this for real?

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malachi_a_serva said:
I thought I knew everything I could that bothered me with the RCC - I guess not.

If everyone is fine with it - OK.
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Have you even read the responses? Nobody is “fine with it.” Those who have expressed an opinion on the topic have reiterated the scandal of the events. Saying, “it happend, get on with it” isn’t the same as “I’m fine with it.” What were you expecting people to say?

Do not misrepresent what has been said in this thread for the sake of your agenda.
He was your Vicar of Christ -
The same guy we must submit too -
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I am at peace submitting to The Lord Jesus Christ.
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Again, I must wonder if you have even read the responses on this thread. Context and language are important.

To Whom, by the way, do you suppose the Vicar of Christ is subject? The term is “Vicar of Christ,” not “Vicar’s Christ.” Jesus Christ is the head, source, and summit of the entire Church. By His authority, His Vicar is authoritative and infallible on issues of faith and morals. But, by His Wisdom, He allows His servant to also be a sinner.

When a Church leader, such as a pope, is sinful, disgusting, hypocritical, and altogether treacherous, the words of our Lord come to mind:
**
So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Matthew 23:3- 4**

And even in the face of outrageous historical accounts, we are encouraged by St. Paul:
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Romans 13:1

And we are comforted by the author of Hebrews as he assures us:
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Hebrews 13:17
I do see how when one thinks the RCC is Jesus’ church that anything and everything that comes from it must be valid -
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What are you talking about?

How about this. . .Here’s the definition for the word “valid”
val·id /ˈvælɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[val-id] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. sound; just; well-founded: a valid reason.
2. producing the desired result; effective: a valid antidote for gloom.
3. having force, weight, or cogency; authoritative.
4. legally sound, effective, or binding; having legal force: a valid contract.
5. Logic. (of an argument) so constructed that if the premises are jointly asserted, the conclusion cannot be denied without contradiction.
6. Archaic. robust; well; healthy.
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How do you think this definition applies to the Cadaver Synod?

The Church is made of wheat and chaff. As a Church of sinners on the journey, we readily recognize that there are events and behaviors of individuals and groups of individuals which are wrong, evil, and sinful. The sinful and/or scandalous actions of individuals, even the pope, do not invalidate the Church or her authority.
but it is that which blinds the truth.
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Right. Something about logs and splinters . . .:rolleyes:
 
malachi_a_serva said:
I figured being inaccurate it would need refuting.
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It’s good to know that you are now interested in refuting inaccuracies regarding the Catholic Church! That’s a step in the right direction.
Apparently it is a fact and accurate and there is nothing to refute.
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Apparently.
Truly, what would Jesus say? If he walked in and this “trial” was going on. What would he say?
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I imagine the Omnipresent Judge was indeed there and I have faith that everyone involved has made an account before their Lord and Savior.
 
malachi_a_serva said:
Yes but this piece of history wasn’t perputrated by the supposed “Holy Father”, the Vicar of Christ. That makes the world of difference.
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Perhaps you could ellaborate on what you are thinking the magisterial authority of the Holy Father is.

It seems you subscribe to some sort of understanding of papal impecability. Are you of the thinking or expectation that if Catholic claims are true, the popes would all lead umblemished sin free lifes upon ascencion to the papacy?
 
ASimpleSinner said:
It seems you subscribe to some sort of understanding of papal impecability. Are you of the thinking or expectation that if Catholic claims are true, the popes would all lead umblemished sin free lifes upon ascencion to the papacy?
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I could be wrong but I have always understood that no matter how much of an immoral life the Pope may fall into he is still infallible and the head of the Church and may not be judged by any man nor removed from his position.“If the Pope should become neglectful of his own salvation, and of that of other men, and so lost to all good that he draw down with himself innumerable people by multitudes into hell, and plunge them with himself into eternal torments, yet no mortal may presume to reprehend him, forasmuch as he is judge of all, and is judged of no one.”

Canon Law, Decreti, pars i. distinct. xl.can.xi.
 
athair_ambrois said:
I could be wrong but I have always understood that no matter how much of an immoral life the Pope may fall into he is still infallible and the head of the Church and may not be judged by any man nor removed from his position.“If the Pope should become neglectful of his own salvation, and of that of other men, and so lost to all good that he draw down with himself innumerable people by multitudes into hell, and plunge them with himself into eternal torments, yet no mortal may presume to reprehend him, forasmuch as he is judge of all, and is judged of no one.” Canon Law, Decreti, pars i. distinct. xl.can.xi.
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It’s true the Pope can not be removed from office. Think about it. If there was a group that had the power to remove the Pope from office, then the Pope would have to please them with every decree he makes (or risk banishment).

If you think that the ridiculous actions of Pope Stephen are scandalous enough, just think how much more scandalous it would be if a Pope had to look over his shoulder every time he taught something.
 
Personally, I think that the fact that the Church could be run by reprobates (like Stephen) and still function in the world today is solid proof that the words of Jesus (the gates of hell will not prevail…) and the words of Gamaliel (if this is of man, then it would surely fall, but if it’s of God…) ring truer than ever.

I’m sorry, Malachi, but this thread only proves to me that the Catholic Church is the True Church, though it is sad that we have had to suffer through Popes like this.
 
malachi_a_serva said:
The Cadaver Synod (also called the Cadaver Trial or, in Latin, the Synodus Horrenda) is the name commonly given to the posthumous ecclesiastical trial of Pope Formosus, held in the Basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome during January of 897.[1]

Before the proceedings the body of Formosus was exhumed and, according to some sources, seated on a throne while his successor, Pope Stephen VI, read the charges against him (to which Formosus was found guilty) and conducted the trial. The Cadaver Synod is remembered as one of the most bizarre episodes in the history of the medieval papacy.

January of 897, Stephen VI ordered that the body of his predecessor Formosus be removed from its tomb and brought to the papal court for judgement.

Formosus was accused of transmigrating sees in violation of canon law, of perjury, and of serving as a bishop while actually a layman. Liutprand and other sources say that Stephen had the body stripped of its papal vestments, cut off the three fingers of his right hand used for benedictions, and declared all of his acts and ordinations (including his ordination of Stephen VI as bishop of Anagni) invalid. The body was finally interred in a graveyard for foreigners, only to be dug up once again, tied to weights, and cast into the Tiber.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod

The more research I do, the more stuff I need to refute. Is this for real or is this a joke?
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It’s revolting but a fact.​

The period 896-1046 was, to say the least of it, not a good time for the Papacy - there was a similar nasty period in the 8th century. As there have been before & since. What I find troubling is not so much that a corpse was tried, as that the Popes were as ready to maltreat their enemies as any “secular” rulers were. One might have hoped that, as bishops, & Christians, they might have been different. The Church can take little credit for learning to treat people in a humane manner.

Trying the dead was not unknown even later - there was a similar trial under Mary Queen of Scots in the 1560s, though it’s a very long time since I read about it.
 
malachi_a_serva said:
I do see how when one thinks the RCC is Jesus’ church that anything and everything that comes from it must be valid - but it is that which blinds the truth.

Just like speaking with a JW IMHO.
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I’ve just read back through the thread, and I don’t recall anyone saying it was ‘valid.’ It certainly sounds like a weird event to our 21st-century minds, but it did nothing to change the content of the faith. So what’s the problem?

Lotsa weird stuff happens in lotsa weird non-Catholic churches, but you don’t see any of us dragging 'em up like this 🤷

And that crack in which you compared Catholics to Jehovah’s Witnesses isn’t going to earn you any friends around here, either.
 
malachi_a_serva said:
Yes but this piece of history wasn’t perputrated by the supposed “Holy Father”, the Vicar of Christ. That makes the world of difference.
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What’s more, Cromwell was a traitor & regicide - he had no claim to a Christian burial. What was done to his corpse was, at least in principle, absolutely right; it may have been unwise or it may not, but it was certainly not a wrong thing to do. Traitors deserve all the punishments they get, including disinterment. It’s only a pity he could not be executed. 😦​

 
athair_ambrois said:
I could be wrong but I have always understood that no matter how much of an immoral life the Pope may fall into he is still infallible and the head of the Church and may not be judged by any man nor removed from his position.“If the Pope should become neglectful of his own salvation, and of that of other men, and so lost to all good that he draw down with himself innumerable people by multitudes into hell, and plunge them with himself into eternal torments, yet no mortal may presume to reprehend him, forasmuch as he is judge of all, and is judged of no one.”

Canon Law, Decreti, pars i. distinct. xl.can.xi.
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I just did a pretty extensive search on that decretal quote and the only place I can find it accepted as fact is on anti-Catholic websites. New Advent points out that these are false decretals, forgeries that were circulated.

Granted the Pope cannot be removed except by God, though he can resign IIRC, this particular quote is just another bit of a-C propaganda. I checked several sources and its only proponents are those attacking the Catholic Church. There’s not even an objective source to be found.🤷
 
athair_ambrois said:
I could be wrong but I have always understood that no matter how much of an immoral life the Pope may fall into he is still infallible and the head of the Church and may not be judged by any man nor removed from his position.“If the Pope should become neglectful of his own salvation, and of that of other men, and so lost to all good that he draw down with himself innumerable people by multitudes into hell, and plunge them with himself into eternal torments, yet no mortal may presume to reprehend him, forasmuch as he is judge of all, and is judged of no one.”

Canon Law, Decreti, pars i. distinct. xl.can.xi.
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An interesting quote.
 
declared all of his acts and ordinations (including his ordination of Stephen VI as bishop of Anagni) invalid
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Was Pope Stephen able to declare the ordinations of his predicessor invalid. If so how did that affect apostolic succession
 
Devalera0 said:
Was Pope Stephen able to declare the ordinations of his predicessor invalid. If so how did that affect apostolic succession
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The pope cannot declare ordinations invalid if they were actually valid. They could be declared illicit.

There was no question about Formosus’ being a bishop. All ordinations he performed were therefore valid.
 
Am I the only person reading between bouts of laughter?? I must have a singularly bizarre sense of humor, but my first thought on reading about this, was :rolleyes: “Well, I’m sure Formosus could have cared less!” (It’s not like it hurt him any…)

This reminds me of a woman in England in the 19th Century, that I read about… Her husband made out legal documents which declared that “All my property shall be in the keeping of my wife, so long as I am above ground; after that, the entirety of my fortune shall be divided among my children”.
When he died, she:eek: stuffed &:eek: mounted him, &:eek: set him in a chair in the parlor, where he remained until the day she died.🤷 🤷

The world has had a great many eccentric folk in it, not the least of whom is sitting here & writing these words…though I canna say as I keep dead folk about…

**OK, I have my last cat’s ashes in the china closet with the Sunday dishes, but no humans…:whistle:at the moment… **
 
Zooey said:
OK, I have my last cat’s ashes in the china closet with the Sunday dishes, but no humans…:whistle:at the moment…
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(In the voice of a certain popular fictional waste management industry figure…)
I know dese guys…***
 
Zooey said:
This reminds me of a woman in England in the 19th Century, that I read about… Her husband made out legal documents which declared that “All my property shall be in the keeping of my wife, so long as I am above ground; after that, the entirety of my fortune shall be divided among my children”.
When he died, she:eek: stuffed &:eek: mounted him, &:eek: set him in a chair in the parlor, where he remained until the day she died.🤷 🤷
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Or, how about the man who demanded to be buried with all his money. His beloved Widow simply wrote him a check and placed it in his coffin!

Yes, the Cadaver Synod is slightly funny in a very macabre sort of way.

But all kidding aside, it is certainly not a shining example of the Glory of Mother Church.
 
Montalban said:
The power to trial a pope
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the power to “trial a pope?” More specifically the power of someone who is crazy to dig up a corpse and do something foolish?

I always like to give the benifit of a doubt, so I am just going to presume this is facetious Austrailian humor that I am not grasping.
 
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