CAF Bible Study - The Gospel of John

[NotWorthy]

Wasn’t there also an idea of killing Lazarus? I can’t remember where, but I think it is in one of the Gospel accounts about this event. I wonder why it did not occur to the authorities that raising someone from the dead showed a power greater than Rome and that maybe they should reconsider their attitude.

Later on in John’s Gospel, he talks of the Jewish authorities wanting to kill Lazarus as well.

Perhaps the Jews didn’t buy into the resurrection thing, thinking that Jesus and Lazarus faked it. If they killed Lazarus, it would further disprove Jesus’ rasing of him.

Think about it, if you don’t believe Jesus’ story yet, will you buy into his “cheap parlor tricks”?

Also, bear in mind Jesus’ parable in the Synoptic Gospel. What was one of the last line of the parable. ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’ This statement is proven true in Lazarus’ raising, an untimately in Jesus’ Resurrection.

 

[katy]

Thanks. You had some very helpful insights that I hadn’t considered.

 

[NotWorthy]

Thanks. You had some very helpful insights that I hadn’t considered.

You’re most welcome.

On a side note, there’s a poster on these Forums that is absolutely sure that the “Disciple that Jesus loved” is Lazarus, instead of the Apostle John as Catholic Tradition says. It would have been suicidal, though, for Lazarus to have been present at the Foot of the Cross (as the Disciple that Jesus loved is) knowing that the same authorities that are killing Jesus want Lazarus dead, as well.

We must not ignore common sense when we are interpreting Scripture.

 

[Church_Militant]

I wonder…is there any Sacred Tradition as to whatever happened to Lazarus, Mary, and Martha? They, like many people mentioned in the New Testament, seem to just sort of disappear after the Gospels.

I mean we know where all the apostles went and died as well as the Blessed Virgin’s residence in Ephesus and such but I wonder…

Anyone got any info? I’d be surprised if our Eastern Rite brothers and sisters can’t help us out here.

 

[NotWorthy]

I wonder…is there any Sacred Tradition as to whatever happened to Lazarus, Mary, and Martha? They, like many people mentioned in the New Testament, seem to just sort of disappear after the Gospels.Well… rumor is that they died.

I mean we know where all the apostles went and died as well as the Blessed Virgin’s residence in Ephesus and such but I wonder…

Seriously, I never heard of any. Maybe someone else can jump in without being a smart-alec like yours truly!

 

[maryj]

John Chapter 11

[23] Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
[24] Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
[25] Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
[26] and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
[27] She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world.”

So martha misunderstood Jesus, she replies that she knows Lazurus would rise on the last day. The Pharisees taught this doctrine in opposition to the disbelief of the sadducees. This teaching arose late in Jewish history, around the second century before Christ. It was widely accepted by the common people of Christ’s time. Jesus clears up what he meant. “I AM the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, even if he die, will live” Martha thought of resurrection as a long postponed event in the distant future of the world’s end. Not realizing that the ressurection stood before her. We do not have to wait until we die to "rise from the dead"What Jesus is saying is that resurrection from the death of the soul due to sin is his major gift to us. That resurrection is needed here even before we die.
All the miracles in John point to resurrection life here in this world as the necessary prelude to enjoying it in the next world. The wine miracle of Cana, the bread miracle on the mountain speak of the Eucharist that gives us risen life now. The cure of the officials son, the healing of the man at the pool are symbols of new life we need for our souls. The resurrection of Lazarus is the most dramtic of the miracles that speak of Jesus as our resurrection- and our life. This theme ties togethar Christ’s dialogue with Nicodemus, the samaritan woman and his discourse on the bread of life. It is the central point of his declaration about his being the Living water and the Light of the world at tabernacles.

 

[NotWorthy]

Don’t forget to read this chapter in light of the last chapter. What does Jesus say in chapter 12?
“My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.”

Then in chapter 11, Jesus goes and calls Lazarus. His sheep hears His voice and follows Him. And Jesus gives Lazarus Life. It’s not eternal, yet, but it is a sign of the good things to come to those sheep that follow the Good Shepherd.

 

[NotWorthy]

[21] Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
[22] And even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.”

[32] Then Mary, when she came where Jesus was and saw him, fell at his feet, saying to him, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

Compare Martha’s and Mary’s faith. Mary knows that Jesus could have saved Lazarus, but ONLY if He had been there before his death.

Martha knows that Jesus could STILL save Lazarus if He but asks God.

We should all have the faith of Martha, but often enough we only have the faith of Mary.

 

[MH84]

[21] Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
**[22] And even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.” **

This verse really stood out as I read it. Martha knew and believed in Jesus, but not like she would later.

What I mean is here she is saying to Jesus “…whatever you ask from God…”. She obviously didn’t know Jesus to be divine person or at least equal to God. She didn’t know that Jesus had the power to do ALL things. Am i right?

 

[po18guy]

Compare Martha’s and Mary’s faith. Mary knows that Jesus could have saved Lazarus, but ONLY if He had been there before his death.

Martha knows that Jesus could STILL save Lazarus if He but asks God.

We should all have the faith of Martha, but often enough we only have the faith of Mary.

I just tripped and fell in here. But, contrast Martha’s faith to her apparent lack of prudence in Luke 10:39-43
"She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!” “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

Christ’s peace.

 

[NotWorthy]

I just tripped and fell in here. But, contrast Martha’s faith to her apparent lack of prudence in Luke 10:39-43
"She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!” “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

Christ’s peace.

Wow, I never connected that. I always assumed that the one “who’s got it figured out” in John is the one “who’s got it figured out” in Luke. In John, it’s Martha, and in Luke, it’s Mary.

Hmmmm…

 

[maryj]

Wow, I never connected that. I always assumed that the one “who’s got it figured out” in John is the one “who’s got it figured out” in Luke. In John, it’s Martha, and in Luke, it’s Mary.

Hmmmm…

Hmmmmmm…indeed

 

[maryj]

[14] Then Jesus told them plainly, “Laz’arus is dead;
[15] and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
[16] Thomas, called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”

when thomas said “Let us go and die with him” what does that say to me?

 

[NotWorthy]

This verse really stood out as I read it. Martha knew and believed in Jesus, but not like she would later.

What I mean is here she is saying to Jesus “…whatever you ask from God…”. She obviously didn’t know Jesus to be divine person or at least equal to God. She didn’t know that Jesus had the power to do ALL things. Am i right?

She seemed to have some idea of Who Jesus is.

[27] She said to him, "Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world."But I don’t know of any Jews who completely understood just Who Christ was. These words closely resemble Peter’s words in Matthew 16:16, and what does Christ say to him? “Blessed are you Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly father”.

 

[po18guy]

[14] Then Jesus told them plainly, “Laz’arus is dead;
[15] and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
[16] Thomas, called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”

when thomas said “Let us go and die with him” what does that say to me?

Another situation of opposites? Let us go to die with him so as to be raised with him? But Thomas/Didymus had all of the doubt and had to have proof of the resurrection. Crazy, huh? Even Cepha the rock doubted, first denying three times, then affirming three times: “you know I love you Lord”. Perhaps this all shows us that we are inconsistent and that the Lord’s salvation has taken this into account. It’s certainly good for humility.

Christ’s peace.

 

[NotWorthy]

[14] Then Jesus told them plainly, “Laz’arus is dead;
[15] and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
[16] Thomas, called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”

when thomas said “Let us go and die with him” what does that say to me?

It tells me that Thomas may have been a doubter, but he wasn’t afraid to die for Christ.

Compare this to the scene at the end of John’s Gospel. The other 10 Apostles are hiding in the upper room “for fear of the Jews”. But Thomas, who apparently is NOT fearful, is out and about. John makes no claim of Thomas hiding or being fearful.

But back to your question: Thomas knew that Jesus was a wanted man in Jerusalem, and Bethany was (I think) only two miles from Jerusalem. Thomas must have assumed that:
a) Jesus would continue on to Jerusalem from Bethany. Or
b) The authorities of Jerusalem would come and capture Jesus who had come too close to their reach.

 

[po18guy]

Wow, I never connected that. I always assumed that the one “who’s got it figured out” in John is the one “who’s got it figured out” in Luke. In John, it’s Martha, and in Luke, it’s Mary.

Hmmmm…

I am trying to determine if Martha’s great faith shown before the raising of Lazarus occurred after Christ instructed her on Mary’s “better part”. But, since it is two different books, comparisons will be difficult to make. I have to go, but this has piqued my interest.

Christ’s peace.

 

[katy]

I also wonder how Lazarus felt about the situation. After all, he still was going to die again, and in the meantime he would probably have the opportunity to commit major sin. But he would be there to help his sisters.

 

[NotWorthy]

I am trying to determine if Martha’s great faith shown before the raising of Lazarus occurred after Christ instructed her on Mary’s “better part”. But, since it is two different books, comparisons will be difficult to make. I have to go, but this has piqued my interest.

Christ’s peace.

Yeah, it can be tough, but we have some clues.

In chapter 10 of John, we find that the scene immediately prior to Lazarus’ raising happened on the Feast of the Dedication: an eight-day festival of lights (Hebrew, Hanukkah) held in December, three months after the feast of Tabernacles (John 7:2).

This means that Jesus had around 3-4 months left before His Passion.

The Scene in Luke with Mary and Martha happens prior to Jesus Transfiguration, which occurred during the feast of Tabernacles. This occurred about 6 months before Jesus’ passion.

So the scene in Luke with Mary & Martha precedes the scene in John.

 

[maryj]

It tells me that Thomas may have been a doubter, but he wasn’t afraid to die for Christ.

Compare this to the scene at the end of John’s Gospel. The other 10 Apostles are hiding in the upper room “for fear of the Jews”. But Thomas, who apparently is NOT fearful, is out and about. John makes no claim of Thomas hiding or being fearful.

But back to your question: Thomas knew that Jesus was a wanted man in Jerusalem, and Bethany was (I think) only two miles from Jerusalem. Thomas must have assumed that:
a) Jesus would continue on to Jerusalem from Bethany. Or
b) The authorities of Jerusalem would come and capture Jesus who had come too close to their reach.

How about Thomas was beginning to understand that witnessing to Jesus through personal courageous behavior was the key to being credible when they preached Christ’s message. Like you stated Thomas was the one who was not fearful after Christ was put to death. a doubter yes, fearful no. Let us use his words, like so many thoughout history “My Lord and my God”