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Robert_Bay
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Merged Herman Cain threads
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Raskolnikov
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Outsourcing is the inevitable result of a disequilibrium in the labor market. Investors (as long as they are wearing their ‘investor caps’ so to speak) know know patriotism; they go where productivity per worker is highest and wages and where labor is most affordable, and the US is neither of those. The only way to inhibit outsourcing is through anti-free trade and protectionist policies like tariffs or special taxes on non-domestic capital gains. If there is anything we know about our tax system, it is that the really big investors, the ones that really matter, will find a way to get out if paying such taxes anyway. Better to treat the disease than waste the effort (most likely futilely) on treating a symptom.
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Tietjen
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Respectfully, I think I disagree with that statement. I am a middle class earner and would love seeing my taxes go down to 18%. Currently a single person earning $50k a year pays 25% + $4681.25 toward federal income tax. Under the 9-9-9 plan that same wage earner would only pay at the most 18% and that is only if he/she spends the $50k that they make. That would be a savings of 7% + $4681.25. Having said this, I admit that I do not know all the specifics of the plan so I may be missing something. I think that the people that would suffer the most under the 9-9-9 plan are those who live outside their means (IE - use credit too much). If those people make $50k a year but spend $65k a year (cash purchases + credit purchases) they will be paying much more in the sales tax area of the plan. I, personally, don’t use credit, so in my case, I won’t have to worry about the combined taxes exceeding 18% (income + sales).Best is “subjective” his 999 financial proposal is a disaster which has zero indication of working, and it places enormous tax on guess who…the Middle Class.
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Ahimsa
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The Omaha World-Herald dug up this gem last week of the presidential contender covering John Lennon’s classic, “Imagine,” with his own special little twist. “Imagine There’s No Pizza” is definitely one to remember.
While you can see the song itself below, it was actually part of a larger performance at the 1991 Omaha Press Club meeting.
Lyrics:
Imagine there’s no pizza
I couldn’t if I tried
Eating only tacos
Or Kentucky Fried
Imagine only burgers
It’s frightening and sad
You’re lucky you have pizza
To feed your kids for you
Only frosting or cookies
And no dishes you must do
Imagine eating pizza
Each and every day
While you can see the song itself below, it was actually part of a larger performance at the 1991 Omaha Press Club meeting.
Lyrics:
Imagine there’s no pizza
I couldn’t if I tried
Eating only tacos
Or Kentucky Fried
Imagine only burgers
It’s frightening and sad
You’re lucky you have pizza
To feed your kids for you
Only frosting or cookies
And no dishes you must do
Imagine eating pizza
Each and every day
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Ridgerunner
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I am not persuaded that tariffs or taxes on non-domestic gains is the answer to the trade imbalance or outsourcing, either one.
Some industries just don’t work well here anymore, and those are usually the ones where hand labor is most intensive. But not all industries are that way.
Something needs to be said about our current budget deficits as a contributor to the balance of trade problem. It is axiomatic that all money must eventually return to its country of origin. Otherwise, it isn’t money, it’s just paper or electronic bytes. Sure, China might spend some dollars buying French wine if the French will take the dollars. But eventually, the French have to do something with the dollars and eventually they have to come back. Maybe they won’t buy some labor-intensive product like textiles or shoes, but they can buy things Americans are good at, like heavy machinery or precision machine tools. Unfortunately, the dollars can also come back to buy American debt.
Since we are so lavish in creating debt, foreign holders of dollars have an “out”. Instead of being obliged to buy American goods or services, which would enrich American workers, they can, and do, buy American debt, which only further impoverishes Americans.
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seekerz
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“How dare he” indeed. I would imagine that black people and the Wall Street protesters, whom you refer to at the start of your post, might (like you) object to being lumped together and characterized, in much the same way you so eloquently object to Cain’s criticism of the unemployed.
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Darryl1958
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As I have already mentioned, Cain’s criticism is a valid one. If someone else is always to blame, they are the ones responsible for your failure, and you become their pawn, and a mere plaything.
When you blame yourself, you make yourself responsible. You have now entered into the realm where you can actually do something about your predicament, rather than passively waiting for someone else to fix it.
Cain’s background is an authentic one for sure, where he has known poverty and learned helplessness intimately. Of course not everyone is going to have his success by blaming themselves—making themselves the masters of their own destiny. The world is a tough place, with all sorts of bad luck and unfairness built in. But not anyone is going ot have any success if they believe that someone else is responsible for them.
When you blame yourself, you make yourself responsible. You have now entered into the realm where you can actually do something about your predicament, rather than passively waiting for someone else to fix it.
Cain’s background is an authentic one for sure, where he has known poverty and learned helplessness intimately. Of course not everyone is going to have his success by blaming themselves—making themselves the masters of their own destiny. The world is a tough place, with all sorts of bad luck and unfairness built in. But not anyone is going ot have any success if they believe that someone else is responsible for them.
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seekerz
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There is a big difference between blaming oneself and taking personal responsibility. I am responsible for searching for a job or becoming self-employed that does not make me to blame for the lack of jobs or customers. I may be responsible for creating a good product but not to blame for my product being unable to compete against cheap imports.
The idea that somehow people are independent islands who float or sink on their own steam, seems to me to have no basis in reality. Every situation has multiple causes, so assigning ‘blame’ to any single entity is not only unhelpful, in certain settings it may even be dishonest.
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Darryl1958
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Taken in the context of what Cain was saying, it ought to have been clear to anyone without a political agenda exatly what he was meaning.
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seekerz
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Oh, so you know why he chose to blame the victim? At least that makes one of us.
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GaryTaylor
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bbarrick8383
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You really just came down on Cain and SS and all that then advocate Ron Paul’s plan? Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see Paul in the White House, but if you want SS to remain intact, Paul is not the guy to be promoting.
I think I’ll take Art Laffer and Paul Ryan’s word on 999, they both love the idea though Ryan favors the flat tax over the fair tax.
I think I’ll take Art Laffer and Paul Ryan’s word on 999, they both love the idea though Ryan favors the flat tax over the fair tax.
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SwordofLight
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Let’s not forget his “Enron-like” scandal as a boardmember of Aquila:
washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/cains-enron-scandal/2011/03/29/gIQANPu9rL_blog.html
washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/cains-enron-scandal/2011/03/29/gIQANPu9rL_blog.html
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scipio337
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It’s only “Enron-like” to those opposed to his candidacy.
Let’s not forget Paul’s conspiracy theories on Alex Jones’ show. Attack on Iran “imminent” (in 2005), massive gun confiscation and police state around the corner (in 2007), or fan-boydom among the 9/11 “Truther” squad.
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scipio337
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Because “we’re the one’s we’ve been waiting for” has worked so well, wouldn’t you say?
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Darryl1958
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Your understanding is confined by your language. To understand what he is saying, you must be willing to see the world from his point of view, rather than your own.
“Blame the victim” is a term coined by leftist feminism. It certainly does not describe the point of view that Herman Cain was speaking from.
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GaryTaylor
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As you wish. I believe your wrong on both accounts.
Ron Paul…
Q: Are you still in favor of abolishing Social Security?
A: Yes, but not overnight. As a matter of fact, my program’s the only one that is going to be able to take care of the elderly. I’d like to get the young people out of it, just the younger generation, because there’s no money there, and they’re going to have to pay 50 years and they’re not going to get anything. I’d take care of all the elderly, all those who are dependent, but I would save the money from this wild spending overseas.
I think we need to offer the kids the chance to get out. But right now, if we don’t save the money, we can’t take care of the other. I never voted to spend one penny of Social Security money. So I’m the one that has saved it. I say take that money–and I say this constantly–don’t turn anybody out on the streets–people we have conditioned–but I would say take care of the people that are dependent on us. The only way you can do that is cut spending. If we don’t, they’re all going to be out in the street. Because right now Social Security beneficiaries are getting 2% raises, but their cost of living is going up 10%. A dollar crisis is going to wipe them all out.
When it comes to Social Security and Medicare, the federal government simply won’t be able to keep its promises in the future. That is the reality every American should get used to, despite the grand promises of Washington reformers. Our entitlement system can’t be reformed–it’s too late. And the Medicare prescription drug bill is the final nail in the coffin–costing at least $1 trillion in the first decade alone, and much more in following decades as the American population grows older
Peace
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GaryTaylor
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And no I’m not “trashing” Cain, I have no personal issue with. In fact I was one of the few who liked him here to start with…then he talked! Its a discussion is all. Cain did a great job by his own comments of trashing himself. All the quotes which I have posted. You can google. Islam, the Flavor of the Month “Black Walnut”, and the poor. “All His” You assume this is fitting for USA President? Myself I think not.
The 9-9-9 plan would further widen the chasm in wealth and income that exists in this country between the haves and have nots. It shifts more of the tax burden to lower income workers away from the wealthy. This is just not fair. While you may think that it isn’t fair that the wealthy should pay more in taxes just because they are wealthy, they certainly should be required to help pay for the services that allow them to build and grow their wealth. Even if you don’t care that the 9-9-9 plan is regressive it is not good for the economy.
While I have no problems with Herman Cain personally, this plan would NOT create an economic boom, it would lead to another great depression. What creates economic growth is market demand, and increasing the price of everything reduces the demand for goods and services. Add to this the fact that low and middle income workers would see their income tax go up at the same time, and they are the ones who spend the majority of their income on goods and services, you have a double whammy. Low and middle income workers would have less disposable income and the goods that they need would cost more due to the national sales tax. You presumably have heard of the law of supply and demand. This is what this is all about.
On top of this, ending capital gains taxes would increase the incentive to speculate in financial markets, because there is no cost to buying and selling financial instruments. Speculation can help build industry, but in a time when there is no demand, speculation is really just gambling. Since we now have a higher concentration of financial assets in fewer companies than ever, if any of those gambles go bad the entire financial system could be brought down, as it almost was in 2007/2008. “unknown author”
Whom I happen to agree with. And I suspect since the Koch brothers are his backers, how in good conscious would he bite the hand feeding him? If you were backing me financially would I place the greatest burden on you with a financial plan? Would you continue to back me then? I don’t think so, business is business. And how quickly he seperated himself from the poor when it came to business.
Peace
“All His” You assume this is fitting for USA President? Myself I think not. The 9-9-9 plan would further widen the chasm in wealth and income that exists in this country between the haves and have nots. It shifts more of the tax burden to lower income workers away from the wealthy. This is just not fair. While you may think that it isn’t fair that the wealthy should pay more in taxes just because they are wealthy, they certainly should be required to help pay for the services that allow them to build and grow their wealth. Even if you don’t care that the 9-9-9 plan is regressive it is not good for the economy.
While I have no problems with Herman Cain personally, this plan would NOT create an economic boom, it would lead to another great depression. What creates economic growth is market demand, and increasing the price of everything reduces the demand for goods and services. Add to this the fact that low and middle income workers would see their income tax go up at the same time, and they are the ones who spend the majority of their income on goods and services, you have a double whammy. Low and middle income workers would have less disposable income and the goods that they need would cost more due to the national sales tax. You presumably have heard of the law of supply and demand. This is what this is all about.
On top of this, ending capital gains taxes would increase the incentive to speculate in financial markets, because there is no cost to buying and selling financial instruments. Speculation can help build industry, but in a time when there is no demand, speculation is really just gambling. Since we now have a higher concentration of financial assets in fewer companies than ever, if any of those gambles go bad the entire financial system could be brought down, as it almost was in 2007/2008. “unknown author”
Whom I happen to agree with. And I suspect since the Koch brothers are his backers, how in good conscious would he bite the hand feeding him? If you were backing me financially would I place the greatest burden on you with a financial plan? Would you continue to back me then? I don’t think so, business is business. And how quickly he seperated himself from the poor when it came to business.
Peace
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TEPO
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