California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery'

[CopticChristian]

Actually, it was almost thirty years ago in 1974–approx ten years before Rock Hudson came out as gay–when the trustees at the American Psychiatric Association voted unanimously to remove it off the “mental illness” list.
The only reason it took that long was because no one had kicked up a fuss about it being on the list before that…and most people didn’t believe it was a mental illness, anyway. In fact, it never really fit the “criteria” for being a mental illness at all.

But in the Seventies, it was time to speak out about this and right the wrong. Removing it off the list was just bureaucratic paperwork that was long, long overdue.

To compare it to pedophilia, where a child is hurt and sex happens against a child’s will in a violent act, is…nonsensical.

You may think homosexuality is disordered and abnormal, but that is only your opinion. A good many people would not agree with you.

God made gay people. So I don’t think you have to worry too much about what He thinks or how He’s going to react about his own beloved creations.

.

Daddy,

If you believe and propagate that this was unanimous then you believe and propogate something that is not true as previously pointed out.

#213
Only 10,555 of the 17,905 APA members voted in the election. The results were as follows,

Total APA members eligible to vote: 17,905

Number of APA members that actually voted: 10,555

Number of members that “Abstained”: 367

Number of “No” votes -votes to keep “homosexuality” in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810

Number of “Yes” votes-votes to remove “homosexuality” from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854

 

[CopticChristian]

DaddyGirl:
Daddy,

Did you not read " a man not bothered by same sex attraction"…I never said he was gay.

 

[CopticChristian]

That vote was taken 40 years ago. I guess i’ll clarify:

So you have any evidence that the majority of doctors in the APA today disagree with the organization’s stance on the issue? I would have thought it was clear we were not talking about events 40 years ago, but I guess it was not.

** I could care less how people felt about the issue 40 years ago, because doing so ignores all scientific advances made in that period of time.** So far the only evidence you have given is the statement by one man, who has shown no evidence that he represents anyone except himself and perhaps a small group of followers. You have shown me ZERO evidence that the majority of doctors in the APA disagree with their stance on conversion therapy.

Also, a list of some organizations which agree conversion therapy is ineffective and/or dangerous:

American Medical Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy
American Counseling Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
National Association of School Psychologists
American Academy of Physician Assistants.

Let me guess: all of those have been infiltrated by the lgbt conspiracy as well. How convenient.

Kevin,

What scientific advances do you speak of? The American Medical Association only has a membership of 1/3 of all physicians and many are students. The only one that matters is the one that formed the propogated opinion and how that opinion was propagated.

 

[CopticChristian]

Been there, Kevin. And, believe it or not, the answer you will get is: Yes.

People who think that homosexuality is abnormal will harp on until their gums bleed about gay infiltration of the AMA over 40 years ago and will then (you will laugh at this, I promise) try to tell you that any organisation that has any expertise in the matter has also been victim of the ‘Gay Agenda’.

That’s all the organisations in Western Civilisation. All of them. Every single one. No exceptions. None at all. They’ve all bent to the will of the ‘Homosexual Lobby’ and the ‘Liberal Media’.

Imagine if they all supported Coptic’s view and we had just one small organisation that disagreed with it. He’d be pointing out the rank stupidity of anyone who would even attempt to argue on such a basis. He seems to not understand this.

Brad,

Then you should have solace that the courts will see your view and the truth will prevail. Nothing more need be said for your formed opinion.

 

[CopticChristian]

That vote was taken 40 years ago. I guess i’ll clarify:

So you have any evidence that the majority of doctors in the APA today disagree with the organization’s stance on the issue? I would have thought it was clear we were not talking about events 40 years ago, but I guess it was not.

I could care less how people felt about the issue 40 years ago, because doing so ignores all scientific advances made in that period of time. So far the only evidence you have given is the statement by one man, who has shown no evidence that he represents anyone except himself and perhaps a small group of followers. You have shown me ZERO evidence that the majority of doctors in the APA disagree with their stance on conversion therapy.

Also, a list of some organizations which agree conversion therapy is ineffective and/or dangerous:

American Medical Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy
American Counseling Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
National Association of School Psychologists
American Academy of Physician Assistants.

Let me guess: all of those have been infiltrated by the lgbt conspiracy as well. How convenient.

Kevin,

You know how they say when you look at crime follow the money…well here it is follow the history, follow the opinions, realize that those that voted not to take homosexuality out of the DSM did not just die and go away…

How is it you think that NARTH was formed?

Here is some food for thought for you…

equip.org/articles/is-homosexuality-an-illness/

Elsewhere Socarides stated that the decision of the APA trustees was “the medical hoax of the century.”18 Was this the end of the debate? Did the vast majority of “competent” psychiatrists agree with the APA’s decision? In 1977 ten thousand members of the APA were polled at random, asking them their opinion on this. In an article entitled “Sick Again?” Time magazine summarized the results of the poll: “Of those answering, 69% said they believed ‘homosexuality is usually a pathological adaptation, as opposed to a normal variation,’ 18% disagreed and 13% were uncertain. Similarly, sizable majorities said that homosexuals are generally less happy than heterosexuals (73%) and less capable of mature, loving relationships (60%). A total of 70% said that homosexuals’ problems have more to do with their own inner conflicts than with stigmatization by society at large.”

The name Socarides should be looked into. Who was he? What organization was he with?

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948045,00.html

Sexes: Sick Again?

Psychiatrists vote on gays

In a much debated vote by its membership four years ago, the American Psychiatric Association decided that homosexuality should not be defined as a disorder. For many psychiatrists, that poll has hardly disposed of the issue—as a new survey by Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality shows. The journal sent questionnaires to 10,000 members of the A.P.A., and compiled the first 2,500 responses. Of those answering, 69% said they believed “homosexuality is usually a pathological adaptation, as opposed to a normal variation,” 18% disagreed and 13% were uncertain. Similarly, sizable majorities said that homosexuals are generally less happy than…

So are you sure that the American Psychiatric Association dictates what everyone thinks and believes? As long as there is a divided opinion then there should be room for divided opinion on therapy.

lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-HOMOSEXUALITY-POLL

The first version, released in 1952, listed homosexuality as a sociopath personality disturbance. In 1968, the second version (DSM II) reclassified homosexuality as a sexual deviancy. Soon afterward, gay protestors began picketing at the APA’s annual conventions, demanding that homosexuality be removed from the list completely. In 1973, after intensive debate and numerous disturbances by gay activists, the APA decided to remove homosexuality from it’s next manual (DSM IV) completely.

What followed was a swarm of outrage from psychiatrists within the APA who disagreed with the decision and demanded that the issue be reconsidered. In 1974, a referendum was called and approximately 40 percent of the APA’s membership voted to put homosexuality back into the DSM IV.

This history is repeated in numerous places…40 percent is not the majority but it means that there is disagreement. Disagreement is healthy and if you disagree, vote with your feet and form another organization that allows free, independent thinking.

• In 1998, a CNN/Time national poll found that only 36% of the population believed that sexual orientation cannot be changed.
• In 2001, a CNN/USA Today/Time poll found that this number had increased to 45%.
• In 2007-JUN, a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found that the number had increased to a majority of 56%. Meanwhile, 36% believe that they can change their sexual orientation; 8% have no opinion or did not answer. 12,13
• In 2012-MAY, a CNN poll showed that 58% of respondents believe that a lesbian or gay person cannot change their sexual orientation; 34% believe that they can; 8% have no opinion.

So you may say here that the public acceptance of this attempt to cause opinion to agree is a victory. Not so. It just means that these polls show that the public has not swallowed the lie and that there is difference of opinion that is divided consistent with the division of the experts.

All you have to do is prove that there is no consensus and agreement and that those that disagree have reasons to disagree and you win.

 

[Bradski]

In 1974, a referendum was called and approximately 40 percent of the APA’s membership voted to put homosexuality back into the DSM IV.

Even if quoting views held by people over 40 years ago had any relevance, I think that you’re playing a little fast with the figures. Or at least, the person whom you are quoting is.

The membership of the APA in 1974 was just under 18,000. This is in the mid 70’s when homosexual acts could get you jail time. When people literally feared for their physical safety if they were found to be homosexual. When you could be treated as a pariah if you showed any homosexual tendencies.

There was a lengthy, comitted and sustained attempt by some members to have the decision overturned. Note that they weren’t voting to have it included or not. It was already out. The vote was to ratify the decision or not. And after a concerted effort by people who themselves had an agenda, after exhorting all the members of the APA to vote with them, do you know how many bothered? 3,810. Barely one fifth. That’s all the numbers they could raise.

Even nearly 40 years ago the case was closed.

And you can get these figures even from conservative web sites: conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/homosexual-activists-intimidate-american-psychiatric-association-into-removing-homosexuality-from-list-of-disorders/

 

[CopticChristian]

Even if quoting views held by people over 40 years ago had any relevance, I think that you’re playing a little fast with the figures. Or at least, the person whom you are quoting is.

The membership of the APA in 1974 was just under 18,000. This is in the mid 70’s when homosexual acts could get you jail time. When people literally feared for their physical safety if they were found to be homosexual. When you could be treated as a pariah if you showed any homosexual tendencies.

There was a lengthy, comitted and sustained attempt by some members to have the decision overturned. Note that they weren’t voting to have it included or not. It was already out. The vote was to ratify the decision or not. And after a concerted effort by people who themselves had an agenda, after exhorting all the members of the APA to vote with them, do you know how many bothered? 3,810. Barely one fifth. That’s all the numbers they could raise.

Even nearly 40 years ago the case was closed.

And you can get these figures even from conservative web sites: conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/homosexual-activists-intimidate-american-psychiatric-association-into-removing-homosexuality-from-list-of-disorders/

Brad,

You still don’t understand. Vote, not science. The case is not closed. Peoples minds don’t follow votes in the field of medicine or behavioral science. You may want to volunteer your efforts for the cause.

 

[Slavonic]

You still don’t understand. Vote, not science.

This is telling. A lot of the opposition to the APA and the removal of homosexuality from the DSM seems to talk about the vote, not the science. Where NARTH and other organizations like it loose their credibility is they obsess over this vote that was made 35 years ago and fail to provide any science. While the APA, which is still credible, will actually consider the science produced in the decades before the vote and the new research produced since.

And the APA(s) are not the be all and end all of Psychology and Psychiatry, respectively. What about the researchers and professors in universities? What about the various academic publications where the research is peer reviewed and published? Why are NARTH members not granted tenured professorships? Why are their articles not in the major, respected journals? Hint: It’s not a vast conspiracy, NARTH is just totally off base.

 

[Bradski]

Peoples minds don’t follow votes in the field of medicine or behavioral science.

Then why do people lie about the numbers and inflate them? Why literally double them to give the impression that it was almost a half of all members?

You may want to volunteer your efforts for the cause.

It’s a bit late to join the army when the war has been won…

 

[SuperLuigi]

Then why do people lie about the numbers and inflate them? Why literally double them to give the impression that it was almost a half of all members?

People lie about numbers in the social sciences all the time to support a desired political agenda.

It’s rank with scandal and corruption, and I’ll bet those are two sins that need to be mentioned more in the confessional.

It’s a bit late to join the army when the war has been won…

 

[CopticChristian]

This is telling. A lot of the opposition to the APA and the removal of homosexuality from the DSM seems to talk about the vote, not the science. Where NARTH and other organizations like it loose their credibility is they obsess over this vote that was made 35 years ago and fail to provide any science. While the APA, which is still credible, will actually consider the science produced in the decades before the vote and the new research produced since.

And the APA(s) are not the be all and end all of Psychology and Psychiatry, respectively. What about the researchers and professors in universities? What about the various academic publications where the research is peer reviewed and published? Why are NARTH members not granted tenured professorships? Why are their articles not in the major, respected journals? Hint: It’s not a vast conspiracy, NARTH is just totally off base.

Bradski,

Tell it to the Judge.

 

[CopticChristian]

Then why do people lie about the numbers and inflate them? Why literally double them to give the impression that it was almost a half of all members?

It’s a bit late to join the army when the war has been won…

Bradski,

Sometimes people think they have won. Sometimes the war is just starting…sit. No reason to join. My expertise is in finding the weaknesses of those that argue against truth and then allowing them to put their foot in their mouths…sometimes other feet as well…it reminds me of one of my favorite movies…

As a martial artist myself I do appreaciate the confidence of others

youtube.com/watch?v=RqL0zZKUtbs

The truth will prevail and there is not a darn thing you can do about it…

 

[Eleanora_Winter]

You are right in one thing.

The Truth, Nature, Reason, Reality, Human Rights And Freedoms, Science and Medicine will prevail over medieval obscurantism and anti-humane dogmas.

Beware, The Day Of Reckoning is coming.

We willl not allow u to impose on us The New Dark Ages.

 

[snowguru]

Coptic Christian, pro-gay/lesbian apologists ignore or don’t care about is that even if it’s genetic/inborn in some cases, it wouldn’t change the truth that gay/lesbian sexual behavior is bad. There has been speculation that mass and serial murderers do their acts because of possibly bad genes but it’d be a bad idea to say they should be allowed to do it because they’re born that way. No, 2 adults who take part in gay/lesbian sexual conduct with other knowing and willing adults isn’t comparable to mass and serial murderers, but it makes no difference if it’s proven homosexuality’s genetic, it still best for gays and lesbians not to do gay/lesbian conduct. We do know that childhood sex abuse is a major cause of homsexuality and those who deny this are dishonest. People who are victims of childhood sex abuse (espeically boys homosexually raped by adults) are more likely to do gay/lesbian sexual behaviors in adulthood as sex abuse damaged mind.

 

[CopticChristian]

You are right in one thing.

The Truth, Nature, Reason, Reality, Human Rights And Freedoms, Science and Medicine will prevail over medieval obscurantism and anti-humane dogmas.

Beware, The Day Of Reckoning is coming.

We willl not allow u to impose on us The New Dark Ages.

Eleanora,

I hear so much about the day of reckoning from the Jehovah Witness and Dispenationalists. Who knows what this means.

I understand your concern with the Dark Ages. Would the Renaissance be Ok…?

 

[severus68]

Severus,

No, I don’t think you understand medical legal work. I spent 5 years working with Lawyers writing reports, advising me how to draft reports that would stand up in court through what is called independent medical evaluations. I learned that all documents written in the office should be written as if going to court. I then independently launched and successfully performed independent evaluations that were used by Lawyers. I also reviewed records for many years for insurance companies. Many law offices use Nurses to review records and advise lawyers. I spent 30 years in court, depositions, defending patients in the work comp arena and physicians in malpractice. Consultants review records, provide suggestions for course of action and suggest potential experts for testimony. Consultants provide nuances that aid lawyers in painting the truth.

Does the AMA represent all Physicians, as has been suggested? No.

Did the American Psychiatric Association overwhelming decide to remove homosexuality from the DSM? No.

Has anyone proved that gender is fixed, in particular homosexuality? No.

Providing this information is useful in court.

I just asked you whether you are a doctor and a lawyer as you stated that you do legal review? I did ask you in a much earlier post whether you were a doctor as you were making statements as a doctor would. Please be assured that I am not wanting to ask personal questions, I just want to know in what capacity you make certain statements. Where I am, legal review can only be done by a lawyer but I know a doctor who is qualified to practise law, thus my question.

Thank you. I do know something about the law and what you do. I do not know about nuances provided by consultants to help lawyers paint the truth.

As I have said, I am not American. I just know that even the Church does not say that homosexuals can change to become heterosexual. Here I am not referring to people who participate in homosexual acts as a consequence of sexual trauma etc. Male heterosexual long term prison inmates are known to carry on homosexual activities.

 

[severus68]

You act like conversion therapy is new, that it is some treatment which has yet to be exploited fully.

It is not. It has been around for decades. And the scientific community at large gas yet to accept it. Why? Because it has an abysmal cure rate, and a high likelihood of mental trauma. Even those who are “cured” often revert back to homosexuality. There is a reason why, decades after this therapy was introduced, it is still only being done by fringe groups. It is the same reason homeopathy is only done by fringe groups. It doesn’t work.

I love how you cite one man as speaking for the entire APA.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on one point - homeopathy is accepted worldwide. It is legitimate and even many doctors are fine with patients using it as a supplement 9with full disclosure) to the doctor) or where medicine can’t do anything more. Conversion therapy is quite another kettle of fish.

 

[severus68]

NO comment. Since I worked in a Psych hospital for 5 years and saw what was actually happening, been a patient and saw the door close behind me saying I can’t get out, and being on meds myself and therapy and helping anyone I can see who has a mental and emotional problem.

I really must be nuts, right? Having Faith in God, and receiving treatment? Obviously I must be on the wrong track…

I missed that post you are responding to so would like to add my two bits. Anyone who says psychology is not a science should look at the number of people throughout the world, who have been helped by psychologists.

 

[severus68]

Kevin,

I have provided my experience in the medical legal arena. Do you have court experience? Have you testified as an expert witness? Have you been deposed? Have you worked closely with lawyers. Provide the evidence based on your legal experience where the humor in court opinions come from based on your experience.

Do you often speculate and conclude on something that is hypothetical and then dialogue based on an assumption?

You cannot base your expertise on the fact that you are a lawyer who has worked with doctors. I am a lawyer who has advised doctors on various matters but I would not presume to make the assumptions you make. The court must go on the law and expert testimony and evidence.

 

[severus68]

DaddyGirl:
This therapy sounds like what the “exorcisms” that were done and is still sometimes done to people with mental and other illnessess, resulting in injury, emotional and mental damage and even death. Why subject children to this? Let them decide when they are old enough with legal rights.