California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery'

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Something new. Yes, gay/lesbian sexual behaviors have been around for a long time and not disappearing anytime soon. If knowing and willing adults want to do gay/lesbian sexual conduct want to do this with other knowing and willing adults, then as long as they’re not pushing their views on others it’s their right. But if in future a cure is found for homosexuality/lesbianism, then won’t lose sleep if the only sexual behavior left is penis/vaginal sex between man and woman. What Severus and others ignore or even don’t care is that gay/lesbian sexual behaviors are often result of bad events in life especially childhood sex abuse such as homosexual rape. Even if it’s result of genes or inborn, it’s bad genes.

It’s possible that there’s a genetic/inborn reason why serial and mass murderers do their deeds. But we don’t excuse mass and serial murderers to do their deeds because of bad genes. We do what we can to prevent 1 with a mass or serial murderer gene from acting on them and if they commit murder, we punish them. No, gay/lesbian sexual behavior by knowing and willing adults isn’t comparable to mass and serial murderers, but gay/lesbian sexual behaviors are bad in and of itself. Therapy to try to make gays and lesbians straight must be available to those who truly want this just as drug rehab must be there for those who want to quit drugs. People can’t be forced into this, yet gay groups make myth that people are. For a therapy to have best chance of working, 1 must truly want this. In my life, I’ve never heard a man blame sex abuse for the reason he has sex with woman and has kids with them and have never heard a woman blame sex abuse for her straightness. But have heard some gays/lesbians blame childhood sex abuse (espeically homosexual rape or sodomizing) for homosexuality and lesbianism and they’ve found that many gays (33%) were victims of sex abuse.
 
severus68 said:
You cannot base your expertise on the fact that you are a lawyer who has worked with doctors. I am a lawyer who has advised doctors on various matters but I would not presume to make the assumptions you make. The court must go on the law and expert testimony and evidence.
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Severus,

Clarify for me what it is you believe you are saying in context of what I say.
 
severus68 said:
This therapy sounds like what the “exorcisms” that were done and is still sometimes done to people with mental and other illnessess, resulting in injury, emotional and mental damage and even death. Why subject children to this? Let them decide when they are old enough with legal rights.
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Severus,

You are a lawyer. You say that this therapy “sounds like” something and then conclude opinion based on what you hear. Is this a sound conclusion? Have you read anything about this therapy? Have you read anything about the issue?
 
snowguru said:
Something new. Yes, gay/lesbian sexual behaviors have been around for a long time and not disappearing anytime soon. If knowing and willing adults want to do gay/lesbian sexual conduct want to do this with other knowing and willing adults, then as long as they’re not pushing their views on others it’s their right. But if in future a cure is found for homosexuality/lesbianism, then won’t lose sleep if the only sexual behavior left is penis/vaginal sex between man and woman. What Severus and others ignore or even don’t care is that gay/lesbian sexual behaviors are often result of bad events in life especially childhood sex abuse such as homosexual rape. Even if it’s result of genes or inborn, it’s bad genes.

It’s possible that there’s a genetic/inborn reason why serial and mass murderers do their deeds. But we don’t excuse mass and serial murderers to do their deeds because of bad genes. We do what we can to prevent 1 with a mass or serial murderer gene from acting on them and if they commit murder, we punish them. No, gay/lesbian sexual behavior by knowing and willing adults isn’t comparable to mass and serial murderers, but gay/lesbian sexual behaviors are bad in and of itself. **Therapy to try to make gays and lesbians straight must be available to those who truly want this just as drug rehab must be there for those who want to quit drugs. ** People can’t be forced into this, yet gay groups make myth that people are. For a therapy to have best chance of working, 1 must truly want this. In my life, I’ve never heard a man blame sex abuse for the reason he has sex with woman and has kids with them and have never heard a woman blame sex abuse for her straightness. But have heard some gays/lesbians blame childhood sex abuse (espeically homosexual rape or sodomizing) for homosexuality and lesbianism and they’ve found that many gays (33%) were victims of sex abuse.
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Snow,

You have a bias. You conclude things that are open for discussion. Using the word cure implies disease or disorder, you should know that.

I cannot conclude that what you say is true. I don’t think that there is any one thing that points to this behavior. It is universally accepted and no one will deny that it is behavior. That is fact.

You are correct that forcing someone into a program to stop addiction, that in my opinion is habit, not a disorder or disease will probably fail. The key is motivation.

Any person choosing to want to change should have the opportunity to change and that requires motivation. No change occurs in any behavior absent motivation.

The issue of abuse clouds the issue and probably should be left out of the discussion.
 
CopticChristian said:
Severus,

You are a lawyer. You say that this therapy “sounds like” something and then conclude opinion based on what you hear. Is this a sound conclusion? Have you read anything about this therapy? Have you read anything about the issue?
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You never answer directly do you. You make conclusions and say you are right based on very little and insist we all must agree.
 
severus68 said:
You never answer directly do you. You make conclusions and say you are right based on very little and insist we all must agree.
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Severus,
You are a lawyer.
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This is a statement of fact based on what you said.

You said…
This therapy sounds like what the “exorcisms” that were done and is still sometimes done to people with mental and other illnessess,
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If you say that something sounds like something else I question if you have personal knowledge or information…I therefore said…
You say that this therapy “sounds like” something
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You then drew a conclusion…
resulting in injury, emotional and mental damage and even death. Why subject children to this? Let them decide when they are old enough with legal rights
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So I said that based on something sounding like something else, I inferred that you had no personal experience, have not read, do not understand…the suggested way of dealing with someone wanting to change…

and so I stated…
and then conclude opinion based on what you hear.
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I then asked a question or two…
Is this a sound conclusion? Have you read anything about this therapy? Have you read anything about the issue?
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Your postings says I do not respond directly and I expect everyone to agree. How do you get that from this?
 
CatholicGuy22 said:
So you are in favor of gay conversion therapy?
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I am in favor of parents being allowed to raise moral children without the State encouraging homosexual behavior. If a child had issues with that particular temptation, then of course a parent should try and make the child’s life easier if there is way to lessen or eliminate that temptation. If a child is doing drugs, is it wrong to get help with that issue?

In no case does one man have the right to dictate by fiat what parents can do for their children.
 
CatholicGuy22 said:
Thank you Lord!!!:clapping: This practice is complete nonsense.
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CG,

You thank the Lord. I agree with you and thank the Lord. Are you of the belief that the governor is being directed by the Lord?

Tell me what practice makes sense if what you say is nonsense, what makes sense?
 
Some new things. With prison, most people lose libido both men and women. When homosexual activities happen, they’re almost always forced-homosexual rapes. But as most men and women in prison, POW and war veterans lose libdo, prison if anything causes sexual interest loss. But here’s other things. Some of the things being written here are typical of what 1 would read in Huffington Post-yes many who post here aren’t Christian, but finding Christians including Catholics who see nothing wrong with gay/lesbian sexual behaviors.

Coptic Christian, yes my view is biased and on some areas I do make conclusions. It’s truth that childhood sex abuse especially homosexual rape is a major cause of adult homosexual behavior when 33% of gays report childhood sex abuse. Don’t need to be an expert to understand impact sex abuse has. Don’t know if there’s a gay gene, but have said that even if it’s proven that there’s a gay gene, that wouldn’t change the truth gay/lesbian sexual behaviors are bad and that it’d be a bad gene. If it’s inborn, then there would be multiple causes of homosexuality-sex abuse, and birth defect. But here’s other mostly false 1/2 truths gay groups repeat.

Mostly false is that gays are often fired from jobs & discriminated against. Gays and lesbians on the average earn more money, take more vacations, especially because most don’t have kids. You don’t get this by being discriminated against in jobs. Most employers don’t care about a person’s sex life with other knowing and willing adults outside work hours. But even with this, gays and lesbians still have higher suicides, depression, drugs and other copathologies. This is because again, many gays and lesbians were sexually abused as children. When a person has suffered childhood sex abuse, they’re more likely to have other problems. Gay/lesbian groups usually don’t deny link between childhoo sex abuse and suicides, depression, but they deny link between childhood sex abuse and homosexuality/lesbianism and this is dishonest. There’s nothing anybody can say which changes truth that if a child is victim of repeated sex abuse especially homosexual rape, that risk of him turning out gay in adulthood.

1/2 truth gay/lesbian groups often make is about gay bashings. Assault and battery + homicide cases aren’t easy and simple. Gay bashing victims will typically say that they’re victims of unprovoked violence while gay bashers will say that they violently reacted after a gay did harassment, indecent exposure, pinched man’s butt or groin, etc. Gay/lesbian groups condemn ‘gay panic defense’ but in ‘gay panic defense’ the defense lawyer is raising crime the gay did before man reacted violently-whethter it’s justified or excess must be judged individually and if it’s excess then what degree was it. This isn’t easy and simple because situations are unpredictable. If a gay commits harassment such as repeatedly ask a man for sex in a lot after man reacts violently including even kill, the man reacted to a crime the gay did. It’s possible that harassment isn’t the only crime intended. If the gay is high on drugs or if the gay has a violent history, then a case can be made that the man was protecting himself from something more violent the gay was trying to do. It’s possible for a gay to be asking a man for sex 1 minute and then getting violent including even trying to do homosexual rape because he didn’t get what he wanted. Each case is different and has to be judged individually because again the situations are unpredictable.

The problem with this is that gay/lesbian groups side with gays no matter what. On another topic I wrote about the Stephen Starr case in North Carolina. For those who don’t know or didn’t read, Stephen Starr was a 36 year old gay who in February 2011, he took a 19 year old mentally handicapped kid in as his ‘adopted son’ but then sexually abused him including putting drugs in the kid’s Mucinex. The 19 year old kid in February 2011 shot and killed Stephen Starr, axed his body and wrote Joker. Gay/lesbian groups including Judy Shepard, Dan Savage and Jason Marsden of the Shepard Foundation/Laramie Project expressed sympathy for Stephen Starr as being victim of ‘homophobic violence’ and gay bashing, but they saw nothing wrong with Stephen Starr sexually abusing a 19 year old retarded kid. That case has since been pleabargain and the kid’s doing 16 to 20 years for Murder 2. IMO, that was manslaughter. Yes, the right thing to do should’ve been to call the cops, but we should pray for the mentally handicapped kid who Stephen Starr sexually abused-that kid violently reacted to Stephen Starr’s sex abuse. Gay/lesbian groups including Judy Shepard and Dan Savage also saw nothing wrong with late gay rights leader Harvey B. Milk (Milk is honored by gay groups) committing homosexual statutory rape on a 16 year old boy in 1964. That’s not acceptable.
 
snowguru said:
Some new things. With prison, most people lose libido both men and women. When homosexual activities happen, they’re almost always forced-homosexual rapes. But as most men and women in prison, POW and war veterans lose libdo, prison if anything causes sexual interest loss. But here’s other things. Some of the things being written here are typical of what 1 would read in Huffington Post-yes many who post here aren’t Christian, but finding Christians including Catholics who see nothing wrong with gay/lesbian sexual behaviors.

Coptic Christian, yes my view is biased and on some areas I do make conclusions. It’s truth that childhood sex abuse especially homosexual rape is a major cause of adult homosexual behavior when 33% of gays report childhood sex abuse. Don’t need to be an expert to understand impact sex abuse has. Don’t know if there’s a gay gene, but have said that even if it’s proven that there’s a gay gene, that wouldn’t change the truth gay/lesbian sexual behaviors are bad and that it’d be a bad gene. If it’s inborn, then there would be multiple causes of homosexuality-sex abuse, and birth defect. But here’s other mostly false 1/2 truths gay groups repeat.

Mostly false is that gays are often fired from jobs & discriminated against. Gays and lesbians on the average earn more money, take more vacations, especially because most don’t have kids. You don’t get this by being discriminated against in jobs. Most employers don’t care about a person’s sex life with other knowing and willing adults outside work hours. But even with this, gays and lesbians still have higher suicides, depression, drugs and other copathologies. This is because again, many gays and lesbians were sexually abused as children. When a person has suffered childhood sex abuse, they’re more likely to have other problems. Gay/lesbian groups usually don’t deny link between childhoo sex abuse and suicides, depression, but they deny link between childhood sex abuse and homosexuality/lesbianism and this is dishonest. There’s nothing anybody can say which changes truth that if a child is victim of repeated sex abuse especially homosexual rape, that risk of him turning out gay in adulthood.

1/2 truth gay/lesbian groups often make is about gay bashings. Assault and battery + homicide cases aren’t easy and simple. . Each case is different and has to be judged individually because again the situations are unpredictable.

The problem with this is that gay/lesbian groups side with gays no matter what. On another topic I wrote about the Stephen Starr case in North Carolina. For those who don’t know or didn’t read, Stephen Starr was a 36 year old gay who in February 2011, he took a 19 year old mentally handicapped kid in as his ‘adopted son’ but then sexually abused him including putting drugs in the kid’s Mucinex. The 19 year old kid in February 2011 shot and killed Stephen Starr, axed his body and wrote Joker. Gay/lesbian groups including Judy Shepard, Dan Savage and Jason Marsden of the Shepard Foundation/Laramie Project expressed sympathy for Stephen Starr as being victim of ‘homophobic violence’ and gay bashing, but they saw nothing wrong with Stephen Starr sexually abusing a 19 year old retarded kid. That case has since been pleabargain and the kid’s doing 16 to 20 years for Murder 2. IMO, that was manslaughter. Yes, the right thing to do should’ve been to call the cops, but we should pray for the mentally handicapped kid who Stephen Starr sexually abused-that kid violently reacted to Stephen Starr’s sex abuse. Gay/lesbian groups including Judy Shepard and Dan Savage also saw nothing wrong with late gay rights leader Harvey B. Milk (Milk is honored by gay groups) committing homosexual statutory rape on a 16 year old boy in 1964. That’s not acceptable.
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Snow,

I believe that we know less than we think we know…

There are people that claim that they knew they were homosexual from a young age…possible

There are people that are troubled with same sex attraction as they mature…probable

There are people that mature and accept same sex attraction and some that reject it…probable

There are people that accept same sex attraction and act on it…probable

There are people that accept same sex attraction that act on it and then decide they want change…probable

There is a spectrum

For me, I am less interested in the why than the what and the how…

The Psychotherapeutic world is filled with understanding and insights that genrate understanding and “cure”…

I believe in whatever happened, happened…what is it you want to change now and how do I help you accomplish that…

The history of what was for me seldom helps…and throwing all this stuff out causes people to stress and want to argue…

My position is facts are facts…it is what it is…people have the right to want to change…
 
CatholicGuy22 said:
So you are in favor of gay conversion therapy?
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CatholicGuy22, you again ignore the truth that sex abuse especially homosexual rape is a major cause of gay/lesbian sexual behaviors. Gay/lesbian sexual behaviors must be treated same way as let’s say crack smoking. If in future they find a cure for gay/lesbian sexual behaviors, then don’t see why people should lose sleep over it. Sex is supposed to be limited to penis/vaginal sex betwen man and woman. We should ban sex change maimings. With homosexuality, yes the burden of proof is on the therapists to find cure for gay/lesbian sexual behaviors and yes, it must be something the gay/lesbian wants for themselves-they don’t force and shouldn’t force people to take part in repar therapy. But it should be there for those who want to be straight. If we ban this, then let’s ban therapy for those who want to quit drugs because therapy to quit drugs often fails.
 
CatholicGuy22 said:
Thank you Lord!!!:clapping: This practice is complete nonsense.
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Honestly, gay/lesbian groups are against this even if it’s 100% successful. If we use this idea, then let’s not have treatment for depression, drunkards, drug rehab, etc. because often, the therapy fails. CatholicGuy doesn’t understand that Christianity (including Catholicism) is against gay/lesbian sexual activities. Guessing that as CatholicGuy sees nothing wrong with gay/lesbian behaviors, he doesn’t think much of the high childhood sex abuse rates among gays and lesbians often linked to homosexual/lesbian behaviors, doesn’t think much of the fact that there are gays and lesbians who want to be straight which is why this therapy exists and is hostile to trying to make a gay/lesbian straight. But CatholicGuy’s comments reflects that of Christians especially those under 30 years old who are as Mrs. Linda P. Harvey of Mission America and Peter J. LaBarbera have said who don’t understand Christianity’s view on homosexuality. Mrs. Linda P. Harvey has also been critical of Christians who see nothing wrong with sex change maimings and GID. Sadly, too many see homosexuality, lesbianism and GID as a ‘God’s gift.’ CopticChristian, CatholicGuy’s comment quoted here is something expected on the Huffington Post or Daily Kos but sadly, too many Christians including Catholics especially young Christians those under 30 years old share this view.
 
snowguru said:
Honestly, gay/lesbian groups are against this even if it’s 100% successful. If we use this idea, then let’s not have treatment for depression, drunkards, drug rehab, etc. because often, the therapy fails. CatholicGuy doesn’t understand that Christianity (including Catholicism) is against gay/lesbian sexual activities. Guessing that as CatholicGuy sees nothing wrong with gay/lesbian behaviors, he doesn’t think much of the high childhood sex abuse rates among gays and lesbians often linked to homosexual/lesbian behaviors, doesn’t think much of the fact that there are gays and lesbians who want to be straight which is why this therapy exists and is hostile to trying to make a gay/lesbian straight. But CatholicGuy’s comments reflects that of Christians especially those under 30 years old who are as Mrs. Linda P. Harvey of Mission America and Peter J. LaBarbera have said who don’t understand Christianity’s view on homosexuality. Mrs. Linda P. Harvey has also been critical of Christians who see nothing wrong with sex change maimings and GID. Sadly, too many see homosexuality, lesbianism and GID as a ‘God’s gift.’ CopticChristian, CatholicGuy’s comment quoted here is something expected on the Huffington Post or Daily Kos but sadly, too many Christians including Catholics especially young Christians those under 30 years old share this view.
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Snow,

Do you honestly think I have a shot at writing for the Huffington Post?
 
CopticChristian said:
Snow,

Do you honestly think I have a shot at writing for the Huffington Post?
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CopticChristian, if you write in comments opposing gay agenda, then yes they allow opposing views in the comments section but if you write as a host, then no. Huffington Post wouldn’t allow you, I or a commenter such as Patrick J. Buchanan write a column for H.P. unless it’s to criticize us. Who I was referring to is CatholicGuy22’s comment and his comment is something to be expected on Huffington Post and if CatholicGuy22 wanted to host a column on Huffington Post, then they’ll allow his. Daily Kos is worse because they wouldn’t allow you or I to even post while Huffington Post sometimes has readers who post opposing views but only in comments section.

Let me repeat that if gays and lesbians want to do their sexual behaviors with other knowing and willing adults outside work hours but don’t push their views on others or punish others who differ with them, then it’s their life choices though I differ. But when gays/lesbians censor those who differ with them, then it’s problem. Don’t be surprised if in future, they try to introduce law which forbids therapy to treat gays/lesbians adults even if gays/lesbians want it. The minors is the 1st step and if not mistaken, they originally wanted to forbid it for adults too. CopticChristian, it’s my view that we’re losing information war on homosexuality when you regard that many people including Christians see nothing wrong with gay/lesbian conduct and again, it’s especially true for young people-those under 30 years old.
 
Sorry I have taken so long to reply. Having two children takes up most of your free time.

Of course the APA and AMA (and the dozen or so other organizations who agree conversion therapy is useless) do not represent all doctors. But they certainly represent more doctors than NARTH or JONAH. There is an extremely small minority of doctors who believe conversion therapy is useful. An I wrong? If so, feel free to shore evidence. So far, the only evidence you have shown so far for the current status of homosexuality among doctors is the opinion of a handful of them.

Of course the APA and AMA can be influenced by lobbyists who try to sway them to their cause. Are you really going to tell me that NARTH and JONAH have no such political motivation? Do you really think there are not hordes of conservatives trying to get these groups to come up with evidence supporting their beliefs? You seem like a very intelligent person. I should certainly hope you are smart enough to understand that both sides are influenced by lobbyists. But you don’t seem to. You seen to , again, fall into the same trap ask other conspiracy theorists fall into:

“The vast majority of scientists agree with me. But they are all corrupt. The small minority of scientists who agree with me are the only ones that can’t be corrupted”. A logical fallacy of the largest degree, and one which someone with a legal background such as yourself should be ashamed of believing.

Let’s look at the opposite. Imagine there were groups which represented a very large number of doctors who all said that conversion therapy works. Then imagine I claimed all those doctors were corrupt, and gave for evidence the opinion of two or three doctors as well as two groups which only represented a very small number of people. I claim that these people cannot be corrupt, and the opinions of this tiny minority far outweighed your organizations which represent tens of thousands of doctors. You would laugh me out the room. And you expect me to believe your same claim?

If you want me to believe you, I think you should provide me some actual evidence of your claims. Either:

A) show evidence that the number of doctors who think conversion therapy is effective is larger than the amount of doctors who claim it is not, or

B) show evidence that all the doctors in the APA and AMA are corrupt, and that the members of NARTH and JONAH are not corrupt.

These are claims that you are making, not me. I’m just asking you to show the evidence you have that allows you to make them. You have made these claims numerous times, and have yet to show an ounce of evidence to back then up. If you prove either of these claims with actual evidence, then I will admit I was wrong and that conversion therapy is more than likely an effective treatment
 
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