Calling all Americans Catholics! I have questions for you!

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I am simply saying that some do not have the aptitude (in other word’s intellectual potential) to acquire the skills necessary for gainful employment. The best way to deal with those people is to provide them a means the guarantees them access to the purchasing power necessary for them to acquire health care, food, water, and shelter and minimize the contingencies associated with private charity.

Charities will help these people much more than the government programs. The government does not do shopping for you. Doctors do not make house calls. Someone who cannot move around for themselves has to depend on the charity of family or friends to help them accomplish these things. The social workers at the welfare office, social security office, medicare office do not make house calls either. And they couldn’t care less whether you recieve help or not to the extent that they would go out of their way to help you. As a matter of fact, Social Security benefits usually take about 2 years to be approved even with the help of a laywer. that’s how little the government does care. Charity will do much more for people if they are aware of the existance of. People don’t know their neighbors anymore thanks to the lack of love shown between them. When was the last time you went next door to borrow a cup of sugar? Or had a neighbor do the same? probably never in todays world. What a more beautiful world it would be if it was common again.

 

[stcalixtus]

Every single human being on this planet has potential.

The government kicked God out of schools. Then they kicked fathers out of families by not giving any aid to families where the father was present and doing his very best to find good employment but was going through a rough time. No matter his effort, and what he was willing to take rather than nothing, his presence in the household became an obstacle for food and shelter for the wife and children. The women were advised by social workers to get divorced if they wanted food for their children. (TRUTH) Then they told young girls and guys that there was such a thing as safe sex.

So now, young men have no positive role models, girls are having babies at 12 years old, boys are out on the street selling illegal drugs…for they don’t see that they hold any worth in todays society.

All in all, it is the governments fault!!!

But we all have potential, and we all deserve the opportunities to better ourselves and not have the government drill into us that we are worthless members of society…and can only take, having nothing to offer.

why do you blame everything on the government? the ultra liberals kicked God out of school,they are enpowered by the democratic party…flat fact, so vote republican? they support the death penalty! Gods law is above mans law, that keeps me sane how about this, we all take responsibility for our own actions and not depend on the government to save us from our moral dilemmas, it is so easy to blame everything on the politicians? it is much more complex than that would you agree? accountability for ones own actions seems to be the essential problem here, you dream of a bettertime with individuals had higher moral standards? fact is those times were when there was less government…not more. We have the god given gift to choose between right and wrong…those 12 year old girls typically have parents that made that choice and provided poor guidance or have chosen to seek other more important things…drugs ect.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

The reason the U.S. is the way it is due to it’s governing document the U.S. Constitution. It’s a small government, make your own way document. Sure, there have been many changes in the social safety net arena. Many of these programs were initiated with President Roosevelt’s New Deal legislation. Plus, many others have occurred over the ensuing years by Democrat and Republican Administrations.

Perhaps, we Americans should push for a constitutional convention to update the Constitution. However, I don’t see that occurring in my lifetime.

The problem I see with government programs in the U.S. is so many of them are costly and ill run. Take the variety of welfare programs: only 3 out of every 10 dollars goes to the recipient while the govt. takes 7. It’s good for the govt. and it’s employees but so-so for the people that need the help. If we could turn those statistics around where the govt. figures out a way to be more efficit and helps the “people” more instead of itself then I would be more receptive to them.

There are some private charities that keep their expenses low like in the 10 to 15% range not the expensive 70% like the govt.

John

The reason for that is this: the large percentage of people who do charitable work are volunteers, so they do not need to use the donations for salaries. It is an act of love…of giving without expecting anything in return except the wonderful feeling a person gets when they can make a difference in the lives of others. wouldn’t you agree? And because it is done in love, there is no condescending attitude aimed at the recipient.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

This is where the Church teaching on subsidiarity comes in. With the Constitution as a guideline, local communities (both private and governmental) should be taking the actions necessary for social justice. This keeps it local, where neighbors are helping neighbors. Unfortunately, too many people today are looking to the federal government. The Constitution is clear that the federal government should have a limited role - military, national infrastructure.

Does anyone really want the ***actual ***Constitution changed?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

There is probably a balance to be made, as with everything. People who do not drive generally don’t pay for roads. That comes from gasloine taxes, license fees and tax on truckers and other license fees.

There needs to be taxes to do things that are in the public interest, but it can get out of control. The best way to go about it is by implementing a Catholic concept called subsidiarity. Everything that can be done and controlled locally should stay local. The Vaitican doe not need to tax a parish to provide its altar boy robes. Local governments know what local needs are and big bureacracies are inherently iniefficient. I spend a lot of time in D.C.

Governments instrinsicly seek more power and control. They expand themselves, because they have the power to do it. They need to hire more people, buy more stuff, always under the auspices of serving the people better. They end up running every aspect of life and controlling it. It gets kind of monstrous, the beast with many heads as Revelations calls it.

And this is where we are at in the USA, 2008.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Well I am not an economist but lets look at these programs you mentioned. Medicare is slated to go bust in about 10 years. Medicaid fraud is rampant and is estmated to be around 25%. Social Security will tap out in 2029. All these programs I mentioned are ill planned and are underfunded.

I can’t comment on medicare bringing down the costs which in healthcare seems to be an oxymoron. The only medical bills that haven’t gone up are cosmetic surgery which is paid out of pocket.

Oh, the last I heard your hero George Soros is not a believer.

John

I’ve been talking with people who tell me that medicare has ceased paying for medicine…for elderly sick people. those with no one to recieve charity from will be left without. that is in Southern Louisiana.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Being a non homogenous society certainly does have its challenges…we are not Norway.Katrina? what do you know? essentially a disaster long in the making…a huge catastrophe brought about by altering nature, New Orleans is basically an empty lake bed protected by dikes, it is uninhabitable unless we return it to its natural state.Fact is much help was provided to certain citizens but alas due to there unwillingness to at least try to be responsible for their own actions one can only do so much to help. It is a case to case basis that the government is able to help individuals in this situation, truth is some people have self destrutive behavior…crack head ect that essentially have destroyed their brain with poison. America is certainly not utopia, many other nations deny their citizens basic human rights, we are not too bad here, where you from my friend? how about you offer solutions and not un informed critcism? how about you go there to ground zero and see what you can do? why not move onto myanamar and ask the dictators what they have done to help their citizens,63,000 lost there what about the millions that die every year in sub saharan africa and other impoverished nations?

i was not talking about crack heads. I am from 24 miles north of new orleans. I spend time there. there are many people living under bridges that are not crack heads. That seeming implication was not valid.
And there is no comparison between new orleans and the devestation felt around the world by others. I never implied it was.

And I was yelling at the local and former state government who is responsible…especially when they are telling people that we are ready for them to come home when we have don’t have schools, hospitals, electricity, housing or employment to support any of them.

And I was trying…and maybe failing…to state that the love of charity and people is much better than government when it comes to the lives and welfare of people.

You don’t have to tell me to go to ground zero. I know well the suffering still felt here…personally. My information is not uninformed…unfortunately.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I think that all us tax payers should suck it up! We would still have money and so would the others. As for Catholics, if you complain about this then you need to go to confession and you should feel horible about yourself. Jesus said, “What you do for the least of my brothers you do for me.” So suck it up and get over it. Donate to a charity or something until the tax raise comes.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

why do you blame everything on the government? the ultra liberals kicked God out of school,they are enpowered by the democratic party…flat fact, so vote republican? they support the death penalty! Gods law is above mans law, that keeps me sane how about this, we all take responsibility for our own actions and not depend on the government to save us from our moral dilemmas, it is so easy to blame everything on the politicians? it is much more complex than that would you agree? accountability for ones own actions seems to be the essential problem here, you dream of a bettertime with individuals had higher moral standards? fact is those times were when there was less government…not more. We have the god given gift to choose between right and wrong…those 12 year old girls typically have parents that made that choice and provided poor guidance or have chosen to seek other more important things…drugs ect.

The government wants to teach my elementary school children how to put on a condom!!! So, when I tell him sex is wrong outside of marriage…at 8 years old I shouldn’t have to talk to him abuot sex at all…to counter what the government is trying to teach my son…telling him that when he is a teenager he will have sex, and there is nothing wrong with it. THAT IS THE GOVERNMENTS FAULT !!!
I blame the government for what is the governments fault.

If you had really read my posts, you would see that I have been arguing with Ribozym who believes that the government should raise our taxes; and society, or social programs should be supported by the government and not by the people. You are arguing with me, and I am on your side! I have been arguing against depending on the government. Even if I wanted to depend on the government, that would be useless is what I am saying, because the government isn’t really there for the people. So I am arguing that people need to take care of each other and not depend on the government. I am arguing that people are better when they can give and recieve things given in love when they are in need…not money from the government. That is the best way morally and every other way. So please stop attacking what is not there.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

First…beyond the fact that “European’s” do not actually get free health care…they pay for it in their income taxes…I will answer your questions.

1. America is not like that. It is only some American’s who are like that. The political structure, and the people who are in politics are driven by money…and they respond to who has the most bucks ($$) to influence them. The politicians give lip service to voters…thats truth and reality. Its a sick system that needs to be fixed.
2. I believe that the average Catholic American stood shocked and aghast at what has happened after Katrina…and other incidents…like the response to the devastation in my home area after Hurricane Charley came ashore in SW FL. Frankly, I, both as a citizen and Catholic, am disgusted…as are many others of many faiths, by the lack of concern by governmental agencies and others at the plight of the poor, homeless, sick and disenfranchised. The “haves” are only concerned about themselves and squeezing another penny of profits…and they really don’t care who’s backs they make it on.

But, when you see news reports…anywhere in the world…take them with a grain of salt. “Good news” does not sell…only bad news sells. So, what you will be fed by the media outlets is only the downside of the news…they will not tell you about the levels of superior response by various different charities and individuals who donated millions of dollars and untold hours of service to help people get their lives back on track.

There is still work being done to help people… and I’m sure it will continue…but at the same time…many people, myself included, wonder about the sanity of rebuilding a city that actually lies below sea level surrounded by dikes…in an area that is prone to hurricanes…

Rebuilding New Orleans is more sane than you will ever be. I am proud to call New Orleans my home. No matter what you say New Orleans is irreplaceable. It is a city of great culture and life. It is home to the first Catholic Cathedral in the Americas, it is home to many great people. It has left it’s mark so big on history it is ranked up there with Rome. (although not as old) It has a great ethnic blend being that it was home to Africans, Mexicans, French, and Acadians. It is the birthplace of Jazz and creol food. Besides the small towns of Acadiana it is the sole source of culture for a state far more rich in culture than others. Louisiana is a great state and it cannot be replaced. If New Orleans should go down, I shall go down with it. I hope that I have made my point clear as day. Oh, and as for Katrina it is just another trial that was sent to us to test our faith and culture.

 

[YADA]

Pray tell, give the list of government programs that have an expense of 70%. Does Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, have expenses of 70%. Last time I checked, Medicare was more effective at reducing costs than private insurance.

A short list of government waste in the progrms discussed here but in the site are more from farm subsidies, military and more

see the full list at heritage.org/Research/Budget/wm839-list.cfm

The Medicare program pays as much as eight times the cost that other federal agencies pay for the same drugs and medical supplies.

Congressional investigators were able to receive $55,000 in federal student loan funding for a fictional college they created to test the Department of Education.

The Army Corps of Engineers has been accused of illegally manipulating data to justify expensive but unnecessary public works projects.

Food stamp overpayments cost $600 million annually.

School lunch program abuse costs $120 million annually.

Veterans’ program overpayments cost $800 million annually.

Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) overpayments cost $9 billion annually.

Better tracking of student loan recipients would save $1 billion annually.

Preventing states from using accounting tricks to secure additional Medicaid funds would save several billion dollars annually.

Medicare contractors owe the federal government $7 billion.

 

[Nino]

Well lets see,in other words we as citizens of a nation that broke away from a europeon tyrannical nation should so give our government power that we lose all that our founders fought and died for! I wonder why so many want to come to America anyway?There are many jobs that go calling because there are people that do not want to work…it takes self-discipline and pride to get up in the morning and go to an 8 hour job…some in this country do not have such dignity of personhood.World War 2 pit Teddy Roosevelts boy scouts against your Hitlers nazi youth league…guess who won!!! Socialism is not fair for most of the tax burden is borne by the middle class.there are many things we,the average citizen do not like,but the wealthy ruling class controls the media and thus those of us who oppose such tyranny are called haters and right-wing extremists…and golly we dont like being called names…Lady Liberty is insulted again…

 

[Techno2000]

Spoken from someone who had to deal with Katrina, and the aftermath which is still going on…I am saying that Iowa is definitely the better reflection of what the citizens of America really are. Although, the citizens of New Orleans that were not totally dependent on the government for every need they had are rebuilding. And the mayor of New Orleans is still getting in the way. One thing is for sure…the partying of the New Orleans French Quarter was set up in full force before anything else in New Orleans was cared about by the local government. Before the grocery stores were up and running, and department stores…and the schools are still a horror to behold. It shows where the local government and the former state government had its priorities. The private industries took care of themselves. Too many politicians were trying to get rich off of the Federal money sent for the recovery effort. It didn’t reach schools. It didn’t reach even a little to meet the needs of the community. It would have laughable if it weren’t so horribly sad that the mayor of New Orleans went on National television asking people of New Orleans to come back home. there were VERY few schools and no place for people to get medical attention. There was no electricity, running water, sewerage, stores, gas stations or any of the things needed to support a community in the large area of New Orleans where people were still evacuated from. People came back, and wound up living under bridges…and I am NOT exaggerating!

I rode out the storm here in New Orleans, the French Quarter never got a drop
of flood water and very little wind damage, it was up and running
in a few days, so it just became home base for everything.

 

[thomfra]

Being a non homogenous society certainly does have its challenges…we are not Norway.Katrina? what do you know? essentially a disaster long in the making…a huge catastrophe brought about by altering nature, New Orleans is basically an empty lake bed protected by dikes, it is uninhabitable unless we return it to its natural state.Fact is much help was provided to certain citizens but alas due to there unwillingness to at least try to be responsible for their own actions one can only do so much to help. It is a case to case basis that the government is able to help individuals in this situation, truth is some people have self destrutive behavior…crack head ect that essentially have destroyed their brain with poison. America is certainly not utopia, many other nations deny their citizens basic human rights, we are not too bad here, where you from my friend? how about you offer solutions and not un informed critcism? how about you go there to ground zero and see what you can do? why not move onto myanamar and ask the dictators what they have done to help their citizens,63,000 lost there what about the millions that die every year in sub saharan africa and other impoverished nations?

Was this post for me?

 

[thomfra]

Well lets see,in other words we as citizens of a nation that broke away from a europeon tyrannical nation should so give our government power that we lose all that our founders fought and died for! I wonder why so many want to come to America anyway?There are many jobs that go calling because there are people that do not want to work…it takes self-discipline and pride to get up in the morning and go to an 8 hour job…some in this country do not have such dignity of personhood.World War 2 pit Teddy Roosevelts boy scouts against your Hitlers nazi youth league…guess who won!!! Socialism is not fair for most of the tax burden is borne by the middle class.there are many things we,the average citizen do not like,but the wealthy ruling class controls the media and thus those of us who oppose such tyranny are called haters and right-wing extremists…and golly we dont like being called names…Lady Liberty is insulted again…

Didn’t realise WW2 was “America versus Europe”. What a strange post.

 

[thomfra]

Well lets see,in other words we as citizens of a nation that broke away from a europeon tyrannical nation should so give our government power that we lose all that our founders fought and died for!

What power are you giving government by demanding that they leglislate things like a decent wage for a fair days work, and a medical system for all it’s citizens.

I wonder why so many want to come to America anyway?! There are many jobs that go calling because there are people that do not want to work…it takes self-discipline and pride to get up in the morning and go to an 8 hour job…some in this country do not have such dignity of personhood.

Is it right that somebody can work an eight hour day and still not have enough money to feed his/her family?

World War 2 pit Teddy Roosevelts boy scouts against your Hitlers nazi youth league…guess who won!!!.

Take a history class. Where was the US from 1939 to the end of 41? Who was fighting then? Have you heard of Stalingrad by any chance?

Socialism is not fair for most of the tax burden is borne by the middle class.there are many things we,the average citizen do not like,but the wealthy ruling class controls the media and thus those of us who oppose such tyranny are called haters and right-wing extremists…and golly we dont like being called names…Lady Liberty is insulted again…

The very wealthy probably pay very little tax. You are right in that.
How much tax do you think you should pay then?

 

[dmelosi]

The very wealthy probably pay very little tax. You are right in that.
How much tax do you think you should pay then?

Did you just guess when you said that?

The highest 20% of wage earners pay 79% of the total taxes
The next 20% pay 16%

The remaining 60% pay 6%

(I know it doesn’t = 100% but that has to do with the rounding)

allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/

 

[thomfra]

Did you just guess when you said that?

The highest 20% of wage earners pay 79% of the total taxes
The next 20% pay 16%

The remaining 60% pay 6%

(I know it doesn’t = 100% but that has to do with the rounding)

allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/

I just meant that the mega rich probably don’t pay much tax at all - that’s what I meant. That’s a fair guess I would reckon. (i.e. loopholes, lawers etc). But I could be wrong. it would be a pleasant surprise.

As for the rest of the tax spit in the US, I wouldn’t have a clue. It was another poster that said the middle classes pay all the tax. But it depends on what you call middle class.

America has a large group which you would define as “working poor” who have jobs buy due to low salaries pay very little tax. According to some on this board, this should mean that they also have to rely on the kindness of the man on the street rather than the country of which they are citizen.

I guess the fundamental differnce is how one percieves one’s rights as a citizen.

Anyway…this was a very disorganised response. sorry.

 

[dmelosi]

I just meant that the mega rich probably don’t pay much tax at all - that’s what I meant. That’s a fair guess I would reckon. (i.e. loopholes, lawers etc). But I could be wrong. it would be a pleasant surprise.

As for the rest of the tax spit in the US, I wouldn’t have a clue. It was another poster that said the middle classes pay all the tax. But it depends on what you call middle class.

America has a large group which you would define as “working poor” who have jobs buy due to low salaries pay very little tax. According to some on this board, this should mean that they also have to rely on the kindness of the man on the street rather than the country of which they are citizen.

I guess the fundamental differnce is how one percieves one’s rights as a citizen.

Anyway…this was a very disorganised response. sorry.

If you break it down even further the top 1% pay 29%. Would you consider 1% the mega rich?

Your statement about the working poor having to rely on the kindness of the man on the street is simply not true.

The working poor have access to free healthcare, help with heating bills, free roads, I could go on and on.

 

[MIZER]

I’ve just started to read this thread and I apologize if I’m repeating. This is from the 4th post:

In the 1970’s, true, many people took advantage of the welfare system and didn’t bother to look for work that was available; now, however, because of “globalization” and “free trade”, there are no jobs for people to look for that will support them (those jobs all went to Mexico and Communist China, remember), and when they seek relief, they’re still hit with the obsolete accusation of “You’re just too lazy to look for work”.

“Those jobs” did not “all” go to Mexico and China and there are, in fact, many lazy and prideful people in our country who will not expend the energy or humble themselves to look for work or take the meanial labor jobs that may be available. I have friends whose son-in-law is content to mooch off of them while his father-in-law and brother’s in laws are up at dawn going to work another man’s farm. The in-laws got these jobs by humbling themselves and asking around for work. Any work. Also, just last week I hired a young man to do some yard work. He was not an illegal alien either. He just knocked on my door and asked if he could cut back my bushes etc…(a humbling thing to do and he worked hard, sweating for about two hours doing yard work) and he told me he can make pretty good money in a day by doing this while he is laid off from his regular job. In the meantime my friends son-in-law chooses to sit on his hiney, sleep in his father-in-law’s home, eat his in-law’s food and do nothing to support his young wife (whom he knocked up, about a year ago) and his baby daughter, all because he’s “waiting to break into his dream job.”

Laziness is far from obsolete.