Calling all Americans Catholics! I have questions for you!

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whatevergirl said:
Where was Europe on 9/11? Where were they in support of our troops in Iraq? Where are they in helping us with our gasoline crisis? .
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Are you being serious :confused: :confused: :confused:

And as for helping you with your gasoline crisis - spare us, when the usa is a major contributer to all of the worlds energy and environmental problems at the moment. Most of Europe is in the throws of a fuel crisis that is crippling industries and food supplies, people losing their jobs all over the place and families being plunged into what is now being referred to as ‘‘fuel poverty’’ - this is a euphamism for children and old people dying from hypothermia because families cannot afford to heat their housing or cook more than one meal a day. But maybe we should all just donate what little we have left to help the poor americans. :rolleyes:

Spare us.
 
MIZER said:
I’ve just started to read this thread and I apologize if I’m repeating. This is from the 4th post:

“Those jobs” did not “all” go to Mexico and China and there are, in fact, many lazy and prideful people in our country who will not expend the energy or humble themselves to look for work or take the meanial labor jobs that may be available. I have friends whose son-in-law is content to mooch off of them while his father-in-law and brother’s in laws are up at dawn going to work another man’s farm. The in-laws got these jobs by humbling themselves and asking around for work. Any work. Also, just last week I hired a young man to do some yard work. He was not an illegal alien either. He just knocked on my door and asked if he could cut back my bushes etc…(a humbling thing to do and he worked hard, sweating for about two hours doing yard work) and he told me he can make pretty good money in a day by doing this while he is laid off from his regular job. In the meantime my friends son-in-law chooses to sit on his hiney, sleep in his father-in-law’s home, eat his in-law’s food and do nothing to support his young wife (whom he knocked up, about a year ago) and his baby daughter, all because he’s “waiting to break into his dream job.”

Laziness is far from obsolete.
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Gee… you seem to take delectation when “inferior” people do menial tasks for the “superior” people who are economically well off.

Jack Atlus is correct: Poverty is nothing but humiliation.
 
dmelosi said:
And what ratio do you think is the correct one?
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23-30 I think is excellent.

Click on that YouTube video: listen to that guy with blonde hair starting at 3:00. I currently have that tone now. Note the feeling of slightly passionate anger in his tone while he was reflecting on his former living conditions.
 
dmelosi said:
If you break it down even further the top 1% pay 29%. Would you consider 1% the mega rich?

Your statement about the working poor having to rely on the kindness of the man on the street is simply not true.

The working poor have access to free healthcare, help with heating bills, free roads, I could go on and on.
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So you admit, you can have a full time 8 hour job in America, and *still *not have enough to heat your house? Why is that then? They are not paying much tax (see your stats). Do poor people have access to **the same **health care and medication as rich people. There seems to be a poster here who can’t get his teeth or his back fixed because he can’t afford it. Is he lying???

Lets compare this to these “failed socialist experiment” of northern europe where if you have a job you can’t really be classified as poor.
 
dmelosi said:
If you break it down even further the top 1% pay 29%. Would you consider 1% the mega rich?

Your statement about the working poor having to rely on the kindness of the man on the street is simply not true.

The working poor have access to free healthcare, help with heating bills, free roads, I could go on and on.
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Suggest you read this information.

hschange.com/CONTENT/993/
us.oneworld.net/article/working-americans-line-up-free-medical-care

“Hundreds of thousands of working Americans who “simply cannot afford health care” have been helped by Remote Area Medical, an organization that offers free medical, dental, and eye care in predominantly rural areas.”

Besides the United States, Remote Area Medical (RAM) operates in countries such as Nepal, Guatemala, and Swaziland. One ongoing project serves the Amerindian population of southern Guyana.
 
thomfra said:
So you admit, you can have a full time 8 hour job in America, and *still *not have enough to heat your house? Why is that then?
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That is correct, you can have a full time 8 hour job and still not have enough to heat your house. Some people who are in the higher tax brackets sometimes do not have enough to pay their heating. Much depends on how a person chooses to spend the money they earn and how hard they want to work.

There are opportunites for almost all that want to work.
thomfra said:
They are not paying much tax (see your stats). Do poor people have access to **the same **health care and medication as rich people. There seems to be a poster here who can’t get his teeth or his back fixed because he can’t afford it. Is he lying???
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In most cases the poor have much better health care that they pay nothing for. There are those that are above the poor level that have trouble with dental and other care, but the poor can have whatever health care they need. There is much abuse that takes place at that level.
thomfra said:
Lets compare this to these “failed socialist experiment” of northern europe where if you have a job you can’t really be classified as poor.
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That is not how it is classified here, cannot compare it like that. It is based on income level here on who qualifies for the abundunce of free care.

There has to be some self responsibility.
 
dmelosi said:
That is correct, you can have a full time 8 hour job and still not have enough to heat your house. Some people who are in the higher tax brackets sometimes do not have enough to pay their heating. Much depends on how a person chooses to spend the money they earn and how hard they want to work…
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So what are you saying here? That the poor are poor because they don’t spend their money wisely? I’m sure you don’t mean this, but if so - Well, we should just give them all a personal financial adviser so they can spend their 5 dollars an hour salaries more wisely.
dmelosi said:
In most cases the poor have much better health care that they pay nothing for. There are those that are above the poor level that have trouble with dental and other care, but the poor can have whatever health care they need. There is much abuse that takes place at that level…
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Ok. Lets read back what you are saying here. in **most **cases, the poor have much better health care, and many of these these “poor people” are **abusing **this abundance of free health care. **How so? !?!??!?!?!?!??!?!??!? **

Have you been to the link I sent you? Where is all this free care if organisations that usually hang out in Nepal are travelling around in Rural America?
 
estesbob said:
thomfra;4000017:
I have two questions:

It’s not. All you’ve done is regurgitate the usual European talking points about America. The United States is the most generous country on the face of the earth. Other than the Catholic Church the United States has been the greatest force for good in the history of the world. Twice in the last century tens of thousands of Americans gave their lives to free Europe from tyranny. The modern European welfare state exists only because of the generosity of United States after World War II and the United States protecting Europe from the Soviet Union for some 70 years. Given that all I think we should hear from European is thank you!
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We have programs in place to take care of all of the above. No one starves in America and no one goes without health care. In fact the poor in the United States live as well or better than the middle class in many European countries.

:clapping: :clapping: :yup:

Excactly!
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thomfra said:
So what are you saying here? That the poor are poor because they don’t spend their money wisely? I’m sure you don’t mean this, but if so - Well, we should just give them all a personal financial adviser so they can spend their 5 dollars an hour salaries more wisely.

Ok. Lets read back what you are saying here. in **most **cases, the poor have much better health care, and many of these these “poor people” are **abusing **this abundance of free health care. **How so? !?!??!?!?!?!??!?!??!? **

Have you been to the link I sent you? Where is all this free care if organisations that usually hang out in Nepal are travelling around in Rural America?
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dmelosi, I suggest you visit the link
Relief corps and ventures to provide health care to those who lack basic assistance are no longer limited to Third World countries. Massive aid centers, volunteer medical staffs, and lists of people waiting for help are not just found at foreign aid stations. Working Americans are finding themselves lining up for free medical aid, revealing the growing gap between the wealthy and poor in the United States. Remote Area Medical is helping to serve Americans who cannot afford health care.
…
The majority of those who come to the clinics have jobs; they simply cannot afford health care. Many Appalachian residents work hard but rising medical costs and limited local dental and eye care force them to look to services such as RAM.
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dmelosi said:
There are those that are above the poor level that have trouble with dental and other care, but the poor can have whatever health care they need.
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This is a rather surprising claim to me. What do you base the claim on?
 
ribozyme posted:
Gee… you seem to take delectation when “inferior” people do menial tasks for the “superior” people who are economically well off.
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Not at all! What are you talking about? :confused:

I was talking about laziness and pride. You seem to be talking about superiority and wealth. How does what you are saying apply to what I said?
 
thomfra said:
So what are you saying here? That the poor are poor because they don’t spend their money wisely? I’m sure you don’t mean this, but if so - Well, we should just give them all a personal financial adviser so they can spend their 5 dollars an hour salaries more wisely.

Ok. Lets read back what you are saying here. in **most **cases, the poor have much better health care, and many of these these “poor people” are **abusing **this abundance of free health care. **How so? !?!??!?!?!?!??!?!??!? **

Have you been to the link I sent you? Where is all this free care if organisations that usually hang out in Nepal are travelling around in Rural America?
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I am curious as to what country you are from? This is not a country that has only rich or poor. Most of the country is the middle class like me.

I am not sure why you keep twisting things. You conveniently left out the part about how hard they want to work.

On the abuse of the free care…I personally know story after story of people that insist on being picked up for free…(although they have family and friends who could bring them for their care), throw medicine away because they have free medicine, never go for preventative care, but wait until something happens…I mean I could go on and on about the abuses.

A friend of mine just had a heart attack and he had no health insurance. He is getting everything for free…medicine, doctor visits, hospital visits, everything, he is not paying 1 dime out of his pocket.

He will go to the doctor much more than a person who has a co pay as he has no “skin” in it or will not have to pay a dime.

I think that is how it should be, those that do not have healthcare, should be helped. But for you to say that people are not cared for or do not have healthcare is simply untrue.

I have glanced at the 2 links you sent, but intend to look further as I have time this weekend. I did notice that the us.oneworld is very open in supporting abortion rights which indicates that they will be very liberal in their findings…The other, I have not had time to look too much in to, but will.
 
dmelosi said:
Many personal experiences, but can you tell me specifically of those poor that cannot get healthcare for free?
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A use of the “availability heuristic” from yourself. Tell me if your views on the poor are falsifiable or you are parroting information from Robert Rector (or a similar source.) I suppose that information from about Rural Area Medical falsified some of your own views. (Although, might challenge some of my own beliefs about the alleged uncharitable nature of other humans too.)
 
ribozyme said:
A use of the “availability heuristic” from yourself. Tell me if your views on the poor are falsifiable or you are parroting information from Robert Rector (or a similar source.) I suppose that information from about Rural Area Medical falsified some of your own views. (Although, might challenge some of my own beliefs about the alleged uncharitable nature of other humans too.)
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I am not even sure who Robert Rector is. I base my information on how I was raised, what I see and what I research.

You claim that my views on the poor are false. Are you trying to claim that because there is a very small % that do not receive the best health care that the system is broken?

What percentage do you believe is not taken care of?
 
dmelosi said:
Many personal experiences, but can you tell me specifically of those poor that cannot get healthcare for free?
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Sure…
46.5 million nonelderly Americans lacked health insurance
in 2006. Medicaid and the State Children’s Health
Insurance Program (SCHIP) play an important role by
covering millions of nonelderly low-income people,
especially children. However, limits to these public
programs and gaps in employer coverage leave millions of
people uninsured and create substantial barriers to
obtaining timely and appropriate health care.
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While younger adults are more
likely to be uninsured, the majority (61%) of uninsured
adults are over age 30. Nearly a quarter of those in fair or
poor health are uninsured. Although uninsured rates are
higher among legal residents and other non-citizens, almost
80% of the uninsured are U.S. citizens.
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Medicaid covers many low-income children, but coverage
for adults is more limited. Parent income eligibility levels
are set much lower than those of children. Unless severely
disabled, even the poorest adults are generally ineligible if
they do not have children. In addition, enrollment hurdles
and lack of outreach leave many eligible people uninsured.
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Health insurance affects access to health care as well as
the financial well-being of families. Over 50% of uninsured
adults have no regular source of health care, and coupled
with a fear of high medical bills, many delay or forgo
needed care
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Delaying or not receiving treatment can lead to more
serious illnesses and avoidable health problems.
Charitable care and the safety net of community clinics and
public hospitals do not fully substitute for health insurance.
The uninsured are less likely to receive preventive care
than those with insurance and more likely to be
hospitalized for conditions that could have been avoided.
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Researchers estimate that a reduction in premature
mortality of 10% to 25% could be achieved if the uninsured
were to gain continuous health coverage. The Institute of
Medicine estimated in 2004 that the number of excess
deaths among uninsured adults was about 18,000 a year.
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kff.org/uninsured/upload/1420_09.pdf
 
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