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Can a couple who don't want to have children get married under the grace of God?
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catharina
Guest
If you think that can be accomplished
without God being central to your
marriage, then yes, you got it wrong.
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Calliso
Guest
Yeah see when I think of unifying I am thinking of the same thing too. I see it as bringing a couple closer to together strengthing their bonds and so on.
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Calliso
Guest
I admit I admire the people who have the courage and faith to put all their trust in God, I donlt ever seeing myself having that kinda faith.
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samiam1611
Guest
Well ok but from what I’ve read (in HV and other sources), the concept of unitive, as *opposed *to procreative, is intimacy of spouses. Not explicitly about God.
“…The fundamental nature of the marriage act, while uniting husband and wife in the closest intimacy, also renders them capable of generating new life”
nature of marriage = intimacy (unity) + new life (procreation)
By the way, it can be accomplished without God. My parents don’t believe in God and they are happily married.
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Calliso
Guest
Yes but I guess if one needs God in ones marriage to make it truly unifying then your parents really donlt have a good marriage. Which I personally donlt believe btw. I think atheists/agnostics can have very fulfiling and happy marriages even without God. Of course assuming God or a God exists then depending on what one believes their afterlife might not be so happy.
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catharina
Guest
I have no comment about the marriage of your parents. How could I?
I know though that Catholic couples, united in a Sacramental marriage,
must understand that God is a Very Major Member of the marriage in
all of its aspects. That’s the way it is…
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catharina
Guest
I do hope we can understand that the
format for Catholic marriages applies to Catholics.
(Would it also be best for everyone? Of course.)
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samiam1611
Guest
So to switch gears a bit…
Why is it so bad to not want kids? I mean the Church says you can’t get married if you are not open to life. God made our bodies complementary and all that…but why does the production of offspring take on so much importance if a couple does not want pregnancy/children? Why exactly should I leave God in charge? How can one know for sure that God’s decision on whether or not you will get pregnant is actually better than what the husband and wife think is best? Why so sure? Why leave it up to Him, when it is within your capabilities to do what you believe is best for you? Do you not have faith in yourself?
(Not addressing any particular person here.)
Why is it so bad to not want kids? I mean the Church says you can’t get married if you are not open to life. God made our bodies complementary and all that…but why does the production of offspring take on so much importance if a couple does not want pregnancy/children? Why exactly should I leave God in charge? How can one know for sure that God’s decision on whether or not you will get pregnant is actually better than what the husband and wife think is best? Why so sure? Why leave it up to Him, when it is within your capabilities to do what you believe is best for you? Do you not have faith in yourself?
(Not addressing any particular person here.)
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Calliso
Guest
Ok I understand see I was thinking more along the lines of all marriages I see what you are saying now I think I hope lol.
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samiam1611
Guest
…That may be impossible to answer if you don’t feel the same strong feelings I have against having children…just speculate if that is the case.
I’ve read numerous times of people who love their children even though they were unplanned - even unwanted pregnancies. But that’s kind of beside the point. The point being…even if you end up loving your kids, or if you give them up for adoption and never look back, even if it all works out in the end…who’s to say that was what’s best? Working out okay is not the same thing as what’s best, and what I think is best is for me to not reproduce. (A handful of my reasons were listed in a previous thread if you want specifics)
What if believing in God, and doubting myself (which is not the case but just pretending that it is), leads to a so-so life, an acceptable one, but believing in myself (using contraception or getting sterilization) leads to an awesome one?
I’ve read numerous times of people who love their children even though they were unplanned - even unwanted pregnancies. But that’s kind of beside the point. The point being…even if you end up loving your kids, or if you give them up for adoption and never look back, even if it all works out in the end…who’s to say that was what’s best? Working out okay is not the same thing as what’s best, and what I think is best is for me to not reproduce. (A handful of my reasons were listed in a previous thread if you want specifics)
What if believing in God, and doubting myself (which is not the case but just pretending that it is), leads to a so-so life, an acceptable one, but believing in myself (using contraception or getting sterilization) leads to an awesome one?
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Calliso
Guest
Well one argument I have heard is that by chosing not to have kids you are denying Gods blessing and that is apparently is sinful. Personally I am iffy about the whole its sinful thing. I am not sure what is so wrong about each individual couple making this decision for themselves. Of course I think this should be done with prayer and one should not make the decision to either have kids or not have kids lightly. But as I understand it in a Catholic marriage you have to be open to life. Though you are allowed to space your children. However if you are talking about the idea of being childfree as I understand it unless you have serious serious reasons to avoid having kids then that is not an option.
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samiam1611
Guest
Yes I understand that but why do Catholic think it is sinful?
edit:…answered my own question - you are denying God’s blessing…but why are all children considered to be a blessing? That’s what some people think…why do certain Catholics’ opinions get to dictate what is a blessing?
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Calliso
Guest
Actually I think it says in the bible that children are a blessing so the whole children are blessing is not just a Catholic thing. I guess the real question is is chosing not to recieve a blessing always wrong/sinful? Or are there circumstances where this is ok in a marriage?
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samiam1611
Guest
If you feel like reading through this thread from the beginning, you will see that I attempted to find an exception to the rule by coming up with all these wacky scenarios (like praying for a miscarriage) but apparently there are none…except that some people said hmmm, that is a tough one, or something along those lines. Feel free to add some wacky scenarios yourself! Maybe I didn’t get wacky enough. So far though…seems to be pretty strict.
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SwizzleStick
Guest
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catharina
Guest
The Bible opens with Genesis.
So very early on in the Bible:
Genesis Chptr 9:
6 … “For in the image of God has man been made.
7 Be fertile, then, and multiply; abound on earth and subdue it.”
Code:
and now today, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The openness to fertility
1652
"By its very nature the institution of marriage and married love is ordered to the procreation and education of the offspring and it is in them that it finds its crowning glory."
Children are the supreme gift of marriage and contribute greatly to the good of the parents themselves. God himself said: "It is not good that man should be alone," and "from the beginning [he] made them male and female"; wishing to associate them in a special way in his own creative work, God blessed man and woman with the words: "Be fruitful and multiply." Hence, true married love and the whole structure of family life which results from it, without diminishment of the other ends of marriage, are directed to disposing the spouses to cooperate valiantly with the love of the Creator and Savior, who through them will increase and enrich his family from day to day.
[usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3art7.shtml](http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3art7.shtml)
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catharina
Guest
While faith is a gift, a virtue,
we are called to pray for faith
and the increase of faith.
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roseofshannon
Guest
The way I understand it, and what I have experienced in my own life is that marriage with children turns us inside out and forces us to grow in virtue and work as a team.
We have five kids, and our older children are much better people, much less selfish because of their younger siblings. They have to serve others. They have to share. They have to be “good examples”. They adore their younger sibs, and having them around brings out the love in them.
Motherhood challenged me to grow up and grow out of my own selfishness in so many ways. College and single life was a completely self-centered existence. When I had my first baby, all of a sudden I had to think about someone else’s needs 24/7. Their clothes, their food, their health…etc.
My husband and I have been through many trials in our marriage. If we had only had two kids we would have divorced quite neatly and easily. Because we have five, we worked harder to overcome our problems and make things work.
So the unifying isn’t only sexual. It’s about becoming a team and growing in virtue. When a team goes through difficulties, like the ones that come with kids, they can bond and become stronger from the experience.
This is what makes larger families saint making machines. Everyone has to work together or perish. It also brings us to our knees in dependence on God rather than on ourselves.
Giving someone a life is the greatest gift you could ever give—(again the focus is on giving). We think about saving someone’s life as a huge gift, and it is, but how much greater is actually giving someone their life?! I couldn’t do anything with my life that is greater than that!
God Bless!
We have five kids, and our older children are much better people, much less selfish because of their younger siblings. They have to serve others. They have to share. They have to be “good examples”. They adore their younger sibs, and having them around brings out the love in them.
Motherhood challenged me to grow up and grow out of my own selfishness in so many ways. College and single life was a completely self-centered existence. When I had my first baby, all of a sudden I had to think about someone else’s needs 24/7. Their clothes, their food, their health…etc.
My husband and I have been through many trials in our marriage. If we had only had two kids we would have divorced quite neatly and easily. Because we have five, we worked harder to overcome our problems and make things work.
So the unifying isn’t only sexual. It’s about becoming a team and growing in virtue. When a team goes through difficulties, like the ones that come with kids, they can bond and become stronger from the experience.
This is what makes larger families saint making machines. Everyone has to work together or perish. It also brings us to our knees in dependence on God rather than on ourselves.
Giving someone a life is the greatest gift you could ever give—(again the focus is on giving). We think about saving someone’s life as a huge gift, and it is, but how much greater is actually giving someone their life?! I couldn’t do anything with my life that is greater than that!
God Bless!
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catharina
Guest
WHY? We believe in an almighty God.
We seek to do His will, not our own will.
See Post # 209.
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