Can a couple who don't want to have children get married under the grace of God?

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Thanks 4 the re-direction to the links aboutbeing in love with a priest. just on the original topic of co-habitation, and i haven’t read all the posts, but i just wanna say that 4 me it was a really tough call, but once i realized i was in mortal sin, my conscience started eating away at me, to the point that there was no going back. i couldn’t unwind my knowledge and in the end, i just felt i had to end the relationship coz i did not want kids. it was like i was cheating on Jesus! if that makes sense. i feel sorry 4 ur dilemna coz it’s really really tough but only you can make the decision. i think that whether the issue is cohabitation or being in love with a priest or whatever, there will always be trials. if there were no trials we’d all be beatified by now. we can’t justify evil but we can try to compassionately understand the reasons for various temptations, and since the Devil’s main tool is deception, it’s no wonder we get confused. that’s why we need spiritual advisers.it just helps if u don’t fall in love+lust with them!!
 
Thanks 4 the re-direction to the links aboutbeing in love with a priest. just on the original topic of co-habitation, and i haven’t read all the posts, but i just wanna say that 4 me it was a really tough call, but once i realized i was in mortal sin, my conscience started eating away at me, to the point that there was no going back. i couldn’t unwind my knowledge and in the end, i just felt i had to end the relationship coz i did not want kids. it was like i was cheating on Jesus! if that makes sense. i feel sorry 4 ur dilemna coz it’s really really tough but only you can make the decision. i think that whether the issue is cohabitation or being in love with a priest or whatever, there will always be trials. if there were no trials we’d all be beatified by now. we can’t justify evil but we can try to compassionately understand the reasons for various temptations, and since the Devil’s main tool is deception, it’s no wonder we get confused. that’s why we need spiritual advisers.it just helps if u don’t fall in love+lust with them!!
That is a truly beautiful post.👍👍👍

Falling in love is not something one can help but what one does with that feeling is another thing. The Church is very wise in counseling us to stay away from occasions of sin.

It is good that you are aware that the devil’s main tool is deception. This is when St Ignatius’s discernment of spirits will be very helpful. If you are not familiar with it, this link might be helpful.

sacred-texts.com/chr/seil/seil79.htm

I will pray with you.
 
My first child was born on Easter. We’re expecting the doctors to tell us that we shouldn’t be having children for a while after the c-section. So it got me thinking about the subject again. Will the Church just say “don’t have sex for 6 months” or however long it is?

It also got me thinking about chemotherapy… which is killing the body in order to kill the cancer. Seems that would be an evil act to achieve a good result as well.
 
My first child was born on Easter. We’re expecting the doctors to tell us that we shouldn’t be having children for a while after the c-section. So it got me thinking about the subject again. Will the Church just say “don’t have sex for 6 months” or however long it is?

It also got me thinking about chemotherapy… which is killing the body in order to kill the cancer. Seems that would be an evil act to achieve a good result as well.
Congratulations on the birth of your child, what a special day. It is my understanding that a doctors order to not get pregnant does not override the forbiddance of ABC. I believe you will have to abstain if you don’t want to risk it. LAM will reduce the likelihood if you decide to risk it.
 
My first child was born on Easter. We’re expecting the doctors to tell us that we shouldn’t be having children for a while after the c-section. So it got me thinking about the subject again. Will the Church just say “don’t have sex for 6 months” or however long it is?
Samiam gave a good answer to this one with regards the Lactational Ammenorhia Method.

My mother did not practice any contraception but the children were still space at two years because she breastfed. God has truly provided all that is necessary.

But this not having 6 for six months, I don’t see why that is viewed as such a catastrophe. What about those who are not married? If they are truly following God’s will then prior to marriage they had no sex so if they can do it, you can.

Prayer is the key. And a desire to live according to God’s will. We seem to think that this is all imposed by the “dictatorial” Church but it is not. All the Church can say is what God has entrusted to her.
It also got me thinking about chemotherapy… which is killing the body in order to kill the cancer. Seems that would be an evil act to achieve a good result as well.
How is chemotherapy killing the body? Sure it is killing some cells (the rapidly splitting ones) but that is not tantamount to killing the body. The whole point of chemotherapy is precisely to save the body. If the end of result of chemo is to kill the body then I doubt very much if anyone would put themselves through it.

We are killing the cancerous cells precisely to save the body.
 
But this not having 6 for six months, I don’t see why that is viewed as such a catastrophe. What about those who are not married? If they are truly following God’s will then prior to marriage they had no sex so if they can do it, you can.
I don’t think I even implied this was a catastrophe. We’re just not closed to life at all, and if we were allowed to use contraception we’d do it only for this reason–wishing that we didn’t have to. I still don’t know what the complications are, how dangerous it would be to get pregnant again, etc. If I care enough about it I’ll ask the priest/bishop and get some advice.
How is chemotherapy killing the body? Sure it is killing some cells (the rapidly splitting ones) but that is not tantamount to killing the body.
This is a digression but I think it does more than just “killing some cells”–isn’t it basically poison that you take hoping it’ll kill the cancer faster than it kills you? Why else would your hair fall out, your immune system get compromised, and you get damage to the heart, liver, and kidneys?
The whole point of chemotherapy is precisely to save the body. If the end of result of chemo is to kill the body then I doubt very much if anyone would put themselves through it.
The “end result” does not justify the means–which is what I was thinking of. But it is true that the death of the body is not the method by which the cancer is killed. So it’s a side-effect. You take chemo despite the fact that it can kill you, not because of it.
 
I don’t think I even implied this was a catastrophe. We’re just not closed to life at all, and if we were allowed to use contraception we’d do it only for this reason–wishing that we didn’t have to. I still don’t know what the complications are, how dangerous it would be to get pregnant again, etc. If I care enough about it I’ll ask the priest/bishop and get some advice.
My apologies for misconstruing your meaning. And congratulations and blessings on your new child.
This is a digression but I think it does more than just “killing some cells”–isn’t it basically poison that you take hoping it’ll kill the cancer faster than it kills you? Why else would your hair fall out, your immune system get compromised, and you get damage to the heart, liver, and kidneys?
Not quite. If that were so my sister would not be undergoing chemo. The reason hair falls out during chemo is because the drug targets fast splitting cells and hair and white blood cells are fast growing cells, hence the hair fall out and the weakening of the immune system.
The “end result” does not justify the means–which is what I was thinking of. But it is true that the death of the body is not the method by which the cancer is killed. So it’s a side-effect. You take chemo despite the fact that it can kill you, not because of it.
That rule does not apply in this case because chemo is not intrinsically bad.
 
Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but this seems perfect for my situation. I’ve found a woman who seems absolutely perfect to me. We connect on several levels and she’s also a Catholic. Unfortunately, given this topic, that’s precisely the problem.

I don’t have any desire to have children and neither does she. We both have said several times that we want to be childfree. Of course, the Church forbids marriage if you’re not open to life, which is pretty depressing since that probably means I’m not going to be able to date/marry her.

I don’t want to give up my faith at all, as I like everything else about Catholicism, but I can honestly see it becoming a possibility as I keep thinking back to Genesis saying “It is not good for the man to be alone” and wondering why then the Church requires me to be alone to live the way I want and not live in sin. I want to have a loving, faithful marriage and be with one woman for the rest of my life. I just don’t want to have a kid. Why is that so wrong?
 
The Church has clearly defined laws. However if you look at statistics there are many Catholics who disobey the dogma on contraception…Some statistics show that up to 98 percent of Catholics, even conservative polls put it at 70. This board is very conservative. In marriage preparation it is very common to not dwell on this issue. There is also a great movement of Catholics for Choice, and yes I have witnessed many marriages between elderly people. The worlds population is at 7 billion now, so people who show restraint should be applauded. The reality is that Catholics who stick to all the rules are rare, and are usually intolerant and self righteous people. My archconservative extended family does all it can to help the poor, but I guess they’re going to hell over this, whatever.,.
 
… and yes I have witnessed many marriages between elderly people. …
What does the above have to do with this thread? People who cannot have children may marry in the Church. It is people who are choose not to have children or who are physically incapable of consummating who may not marry.
 
There is also a great movement of Catholics for Choice, and yes I have witnessed many marriages between elderly people.
I’m thinking that’s what I’m going to have to do. If the Lord wants to give me a kid after it’s biologically impossible, I’ll be able to accept that as just His will that I’m supposed to be a parent. It’s just a bit tough sometimes when you’re 23, see all your friends finding a spouse and understand it can’t happen for you for another two decades, even if you find the right woman
 
Here are the latest stats: World Population reaches 7 Billion today…

1 Billion on the Earth by…1804
2 Billion…1927
3 Billion…1959
4 Billion…1974
5 Billion…1987
6 Billion…1999
7 Billion…Oct.31, 2011
 
I don’t want to give up my faith at all, as I like everything else about Catholicism,
Obviously not since you obviously do not like this bit about Catholicism. You like Catholicism when it agrees with you.

If you do not want children, don’t get married.
 
Here are the latest stats: World Population reaches 7 Billion today…

1 Billion on the Earth by…1804
2 Billion…1927
3 Billion…1959
4 Billion…1974
5 Billion…1987
6 Billion…1999
7 Billion…Oct.31, 2011
Your point being?
 
Obviously not since you obviously do not like this bit about Catholicism. You like Catholicism when it agrees with you.

If you do not want children, don’t get married.
I said everything else. You just want to start an argument with a comment like that. Sorry, I’m not the cafeteria Catholic you want me to be.

I know now I can marry and not have sex, so I’ll just go that route if I find a woman I want to spend my life with.
 
I said everything else. You just want to start an argument with a comment like that. Sorry, I’m not the cafeteria Catholic you want me to be.

I know now I can marry and not have sex, so I’ll just go that route if I find a woman I want to spend my life with.
Presuming of course that your wife will not want to have sex as well.:eek:

To me that makes no sense. Why get married at all?

Marriage is for pro-creation - to build families.

What confirms the marital union is the marital act. Marriage as sacrament is not deemed complete until it is consumated.

And what happens if your wife who at first may have thought that is all well and good but midstream changes her mind? What do you do then?
 
The Church has clearly defined laws. However if you look at statistics there are many Catholics who disobey the dogma on contraception…Some statistics show that up to 98 percent of Catholics, even conservative polls put it at 70.
And therefore if a majority of people disobey the moral law then one can rightly say that such moral law is no longer binding?

If say 70% of the population consider fornication and adultery all quite okay, does that make it all quite okay? Absurd.
This board is very conservative.
What has this board being conservative or not got to do with the rightness or wrongness of anything?
In marriage preparation it is very common to not dwell on this issue.
Is this a case of ignore it and if we ignore it enough suddenly what is a sin is no longer a sin? Aah the power of the negative thinking.:rolleyes:
There is also a great movement of Catholics for Choice,
You mean the great movement of Catholics for Death? The great movement of Catholics for Defiance of God? The great movement of Catholics for Self-Deification?
and yes I have witnessed many marriages between elderly people. The worlds population is at 7 billion now, so people who show restraint should be applauded.
Yes, apparently God gave a command which should be disobeyed because He is not quite up to providing for us. After all, He only created us from nothing.:rolleyes:
The reality is that Catholics who stick to all the rules are rare, [/qutoe]
And that has been the truth from the beginning -sin abounds. But the call of Christ remains the same. Turn away from sin, repent, and believe the Good News.
and are usually intolerant and self righteous people.
So I supposed according to you we should tolerate evil. But what else would we tolerate? The Good? No we do not need to tolerate that.
My archconservative extended family does all it can to help the poor, but I guess they’re going to hell over this, whatever.,.
Since when was it a case of either or? We are supposed to be both. Help the poor and follow the moral teachings of the Church which after all are from God.

Relativism- it seems reigns.:rolleyes:
 
well said. without my reasoning, how I came up with that hypothetical question is confusing. I wanted to propose a a marriage scenario that at least followed along directive of “Marriage and conjugal love are by their nature ordained toward the begetting and educating of children” even though that is not personally how I feel, I figured it’s at least half a step in the right direction.
side note: I had a perfectly fine childhood. no abuse whatsoever. my parents are happily married, we all get along fine, there is no bad blood, i’ve never had any issues like that.
That being said, here’s my reasons, although I don’t want them to be the center of discussion which is why I did not get into them in my original post:
  1. kids are annoying to me
  2. i love dogs. any mothering instinct i have is expressed through taking care of my dog
  3. i think it’s narcisstic to want one’s own children when there are so many out there who already who need parents. (like, what, your genes are so awesome, you think you’re better than them?)
  4. on the subject of genes…mine suck. my mom passed on her slow metabolism, frizzy hair, and bad skin to me. those characteristics of mine have caused me a lot of anguish. I know those problems pale in comparison to others but that doesn’t make me like them any more! anyway, why would i purposely bring a child into the world who will most likely be as miserable as me with their physical appearance?
  5. i take several medications. they cannot be taken while pregnant. I have tried stopping each of these medications individually under my doctor’s direction and every single time the symptoms returned within a few days. (although i was on like 9 and now I’m only on like 6 bc 3 I was able to stop without the return of symptoms). in other words, either my baby would come out deformed or damaged, or I would spend the entire pregnancy very very sick. not to mention, the illness is genetic, and could likely be passed on to this poor kid.
I could actually go on and on but that’s enough for now.
Hi samiam,

Sorry, I’m late to this party and I didn’t get to read the posts following this one so I might be redundant but:

Just think how much you desire to be loved. How happy you would have been if your parents loved, aherrished and affirmed. If you grew up knowing that for 2 people in this world you are the most special person. Imagine not having to glance twice at yourself before leaving the house because you have all the love you ever needed. Imagine how contagiously positive and confident and optimistic you would be if you grew up with all that support and love.

Now, why would you want a child? To be able to offer him/her all that love and admiration and appreciationthat each human deserves regardless of their physical traits or abilities.

In this society, we have grown to be purely utilitarian, to , love" people only if they produce pleasure, money, lust etc but God called us to love authentically and unconditionally in a self-giving way. We should be compassionate and helpful to those who have less instead we marginalize them and allow them to live alone and scorned. It is not ok for us to be this cold-hearted.

If you have God’s love in your heart- i know you are agnostic/atheist but i can tell from your posts your heart is right - you can love beyond measure. And if a child has that amazing, unconditional love he is the most blessed child on earth!! So few children are loved as they should be, even if they are genetically " perfect".

My second child was born with a huge hematoma on his head which maked him look very deformed, i had no idea what it was initially and when I saw that huge bulge on his head I felt my heart bursting. I felt i wanted to love him for all the people who would not and to shield him in my arms forever. Of course, the bump went down with time but for a long time I was overcome by an " excess" of love because I felt he needed it more.

Now, for you personally, you say you have a slow metabolism- in a family of 5 super skinny people I managed to be the one “blessed” with that as well so for a long time I was on the chubby side. Though it is genetic 2 things help enormously: diet and exercise. I dont think I could ever be a size 0 but i am no longer overweight for many many years.
Frizzy hair, my sister was the lucky one with that and though it’s tiresome, she grew her hair long and uses mousse and it looks great.

There are so many solutions to most of our esthetic imperfections but even if there aren’t we can love and have the right to be loved and that’s the core essential of our existence.

And honestly, the least attractive people in the world, if they have a great personality, they are still loved.
As for having our own children, it’s certainly not because we think they’re great. Catholis do not go by “survival of the fittest”, rather we accept children as a blessing from God and are entrusted to lead them to sanctity with love and sacrifice no matter what shape or form they come in.

Every Christian should be open to adoption if that was God’s plan for them, whether they have children or not. We have friends who have 3 of their own and adopted 3 more. The impirtant part s to be open to new life.

God bless you and I hope one day you will realize how precios you are in His eyes!
 
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