Can a couple who don't want to have children get married under the grace of God?

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Trishie said:
This is not good advice to Catholics on a Catholic forum.
If a Catholic marries outside the Church in a civil marriage without special dispensation then it is not a valid marriage.
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my parents got married outside the church and one’s protestant and they had me and the church welcomed me with open arms! 👍
 
NightHawk2005 said:
I am. It’s actually kind of funny. I embrace it and have no problem being a curse.
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It seems to me that describing one’s self as a curse indicates that actually, someone else views you as a curse. If that is the case, I find it odd that you don’t have a problem bringing misery (?) to someone else. If that is not the case, can you explain what exactly you mean when you call yourself a curse?
 
samiam1611 said:
It seems to me that describing one’s self as a curse indicates that actually, someone else views you as a curse. If that is the case, I find it odd that you don’t have a problem bringing misery (?) to someone else. If that is not the case, can you explain what exactly you mean when you call yourself a curse?
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Exactlu! Rather perverse.
 
NightHawk2005 said:
Quite easily.
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You mean fraudulently?

You are a house divided it seems. Either you are Caholic and believe what the God says about the human beings He created or you go with those who go against God and believe the opposite (as you do).

You are lying if you say that you are happy you are a curse. You are not only lying to us, you are also lying to yourself.
 
benedictus2 said:
You mean fraudulently?

You are a house divided it seems. Either you are Caholic and believe what the God says about the human beings He created or you go with those who go against God and believe the opposite (as you do).

You are lying if you say that you are happy you are a curse. You are not only lying to us, you are also lying to yourself.
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You can blame me or you can judge me, but you don’t know me.
 
NightHawk2005 said:
You can blame me or you can judge me, but you don’t know me.
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Here’s the thing. When a person says that they think they are a curse and that they are happy being a curse and embrace being a curse, then 2 possibilities present:
  1. They are psychologically disturbed. Normal people would not be happy regarding themselves as curses. Furthermore, they must be sadists for they want to inflict their being (which is a curse) on others (because they want to marry).
  2. If not the above, then the only other option is that they are indeed normal and thus not happy with themselves. Therefore the only reason they would say they are happy thinking of themselves in that way is because they are lying… not just to others but to themselves as well because that is the only way that they can hide from the pain and avoid confronting the misery it entails.
All these are based on your statement that you believe you are a curse and are happy being one.
 
SwizzleStick said:
Yep.

In the long run, our opinions don’t matter. The teaching of the Church is that to be validly married, one must be open to having children.
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What’s the difference between being open to having children and you must have children? When my wife and I went through Pre-Cana and met with the Priest before hand, they had asked if we were open to having children. We were, we both knew if we got pregnant we would keep the baby, but neither of us were dead set on having kids and now 6 years into the marriage, we don’t believe we want to have kids but if it happened we would still keep the baby. If the Church only validates marriages that have kids, why don’t they ask you straight out, “Are you going to have children, because if you aren’t or are unsure, we can not marry you in the Catholic Church?”
 
StRoch said:
What’s the difference between being open to having children and you must have children? When my wife and I went through Pre-Cana and met with the Priest before hand, they had asked if we were open to having children. We were, we both knew if we got pregnant we would keep the baby, but neither of us were dead set on having kids and now 6 years into the marriage, we don’t believe we want to have kids but if it happened we would still keep the baby. If the Church only validates marriages that have kids, why don’t they ask you straight out, “Are you going to have children, because if you aren’t or are unsure, we can not marry you in the Catholic Church?”
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If the reason you do not have children is because you are contracepting, then you lied when you said you were being open to life. Even NFP is not meant to be used as contraception as such.
 
benedictus2 said:
If the reason you do not have children is because you are contracepting, then you lied when you said you were being open to life. Even NFP is not meant to be used as contraception as such.
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We are open to life if it happens. But we are not planning to have children. At this point in our lives we do not want children. My question, which you avoided is, if the Church is so black and white with this issue, why don’t they ask you flat out before you get married, “Health willing, are you going to have children? If not, we can not marry you in the Catholic Church.” Instead, they ask if you are open to children. And I would say to that, if it happens, yes we are open to children, but we are not planning to have children. If that answer to you means, we are not open to children, then I ask again, why doesn’t the Church just come out and ask “Are you going to have children in this marriage? If not, you can not get married in the Catholic Church”.
 
StRoch said:
We are open to life if it happens. But we are not planning to have children. At this point in our lives we do not want children. My question, which you avoided is, if the Church is so black and white with this issue, why don’t they ask you flat out before you get married, “Health willing, are you going to have children? If not, we can not marry you in the Catholic Church.” Instead, they ask if you are open to children. And I would say to that, if it happens, yes we are open to children, but we are not planning to have children. If that answer to you means, we are not open to children, then I ask again, why doesn’t the Church just come out and ask “Are you going to have children in this marriage? If not, you can not get married in the Catholic Church”.
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The vow during your wedding was to “Lovingly accept children from God” - that is a bit more than simply being open to the idea.
 
Castello said:
The vow during your wedding was to “Lovingly accept children from God” - that is a bit more than simply being open to the idea.
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And just because you decide to “keep the baby” (what other option is there?) doesn’t make one open.
 
StRoch said:
We are open to life if it happens. But we are not planning to have children. At this point in our lives we do not want children. My question, which you avoided is, if the Church is so black and white with this issue, why don’t they ask you flat out before you get married, “Health willing, are you going to have children? If not, we can not marry you in the Catholic Church.” Instead, they ask if you are open to children. And I would say to that, if it happens, yes we are open to children, but we are not planning to have children. If that answer to you means, we are not open to children, then I ask again, why doesn’t the Church just come out and ask “Are you going to have children in this marriage? If not, you can not get married in the Catholic Church”.
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There is a substantial difference between actively trying to have children, letting nature take its course (not preventing, not trying, not avoiding), avoiding to have children via NFP or total abstinence, and preventing to have children via artificial means (pill, condoms, IUD, vasectomy, …). The Church’s stand on the issue is very simple. You are not required to be actively trying to have children, but you are not to enter the marriage with the intention of avoiding to have children (via NFP, or artificial means) for the time being and grudgingly accepting them if they come as a consequence of you not being careful enough.

Also, the Church cannot ask you “are you going to have children in this marriage?” as nobody can answer that question. Children are a gift from God, not something that can just be had if you wish it enough, as many couples suffering from the infertility can attest to. What Church is really asking of you is the openess to fertility (vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm) and to lovingly accept children that come as a result of this fertility, not a vow to have as many children as humanly possible by any natural or artificial means. You can also imagine a situation in which people are open to children, for example via adoption, but still not open to fertility.

The end point is that the teaching is very clear. You do not have to agree with it, you do not have to live by it, but it is what it is. You have a free will and you will live with the consequences of your choices.

Frankly, I am somewhat puzzled by this thread. The opening question “Can a couple who don’t want to have children get married under the grace of God?” has only one very simple answer: “no, not in the Catholic Church”. Yet somehow, the debate managed to go on for 34 pages so far. The fact is that having children in marriage is good and normal, infertility for whatever reason is a cross. Marrying with the intention of not having children ever is abnormal, albeit sadly not uncommon in today’s world. To be married with the intention to avoid having children forever is like a man who becomes a catholic priest, but he always avoids saying the words of consecration (or not saying them properly) when saying the mass. After all, there are all those readings and singing and prayer and fellowship, so the consecration is just an unimportant detail, right?
 
benedictus2 said:
Here’s the thing. When a person says that they think they are a curse and that they are happy being a curse and embrace being a curse, then 2 possibilities present:
  1. They are psychologically disturbed. Normal people would not be happy regarding themselves as curses. Furthermore, they must be sadists for they want to inflict their being (which is a curse) on others (because they want to marry).
  2. If not the above, then the only other option is that they are indeed normal and thus not happy with themselves. Therefore the only reason they would say they are happy thinking of themselves in that way is because they are lying… not just to others but to themselves as well because that is the only way that they can hide from the pain and avoid confronting the misery it entails.
All these are based on your statement that you believe you are a curse and are happy being one.
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Maybe some would. Actually, I know some would, because I’m one of them who is genuinely happy with my life and not psychologically disturbed. Am I normal? Doubt it, most guys don’t spend most of their free time in the kitchen. But psychologically disturbed? Definitely not.

You have a very narrow view of human nature and believe that everything has to be one way, your way. Doesn’t work like that. You need to open your eyes.
 
StRoch said:
What’s the difference between being open to having children and you must have children? When my wife and I went through Pre-Cana and met with the Priest before hand, they had asked if we were open to having children. We were, we both knew if we got pregnant we would keep the baby, but neither of us were dead set on having kids and now 6 years into the marriage, we don’t believe we want to have kids but if it happened we would still keep the baby. If the Church only validates marriages that have kids, why don’t they ask you straight out, “Are you going to have children, because if you aren’t or are unsure, we can not marry you in the Catholic Church?”
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Difference is that the Church knows it can’t force sperm and egg to join. Doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything against your vows here.
 
StRoch said:
We are open to life if it happens. But we are not planning to have children. At this point in our lives we do not want children. My question, which you avoided is, if the Church is so black and white with this issue, why don’t they ask you flat out before you get married, “Health willing, are you going to have children? If not, we can not marry you in the Catholic Church.” Instead, they ask if you are open to children. And I would say to that, if it happens, yes we are open to children, but we are not planning to have children. If that answer to you means, we are not open to children, then I ask again, why doesn’t the Church just come out and ask "Are you going to have children in this marriage? If not, you can not get married in the Catholic Church."
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Anyone who seeks to marry in the Catholic faith knows this.
Pretending that you (or anyone) needs a special definitive statement to explain it is wrong.
Maybe it’s like “looking for a way out.” It’s a non-starter since ALL know the rules. IMO, it’s
shocking to imagine that folks want to ‘work around’ or negate the essence of marriage.
 
catharina said:
Anyone who seeks to marry in the Catholic faith knows this.
Pretending that you (or anyone) needs a special definitive statement to explain it is wrong.
Maybe it’s like “looking for a way out.” It’s a non-starter since ALL know the rules. IMO, it’s
shocking to imagine that folks want to ‘work around’ or negate the essence of marriage.
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Actually in all fairness I donlt think this is true. Judging by post on these boards there are plenty of people that didn;t know all the rules but were married in the Church.
 
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