Can a homossexual couple raising kids be called a family?

[Michaeljc4]

By their fruits shall you know them (there is a pun in there, actually…)

These two children, in this particular instance, will turn out to have lives much better than what they would have otherwise had. They will, God willing, be healthy, functional adults.
And that’s good enough, because the alternative, for them, was horror.

Think about that, will you? The results of what the Church is demeaning and discrediting is better than the alternative. These two children will be fine, better than fine, despite what he Church teaches.

Quite a lesson.

Peace, my brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[EasterJoy]

By their fruits shall you know them (there is a pun in there, actually…)

These two children, in this particular instance, will turn out to have lives much better than what they would have otherwise had. They will, God willing, be healthy, functional adults.
And that’s good enough, because the alternative, for them, was horror.

Think about that, will you? The results of what the Church is demeaning and discrediting is better than the alternative. These two children will be fine, better than fine, despite what he Church teaches.

Quite a lesson.

Peace, my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I have not said those two men have not surrounded themselves with a family or that they are accomplishing nothing good. I have said that their positive accomplishment does not give legitimacy to their sexual relationship.

You must know that there are not a few in society who imply that providing a child with a loving home or even producing beautiful children does in fact give legitimacy to an immoral sexual relationship. I don’t just mean gays, but also heterosexuals who do this bait-and-switch.

 

[Michaeljc4]

And I guess my point is, the legitimacy of their sexual relationship has nothing to do with the outcomes for their children.

An old and tired debate on these forums. Have a nice weekend, all, and enjoy the big game.
Please pray for me, and I will pray for you.

Michaeljc4

 

[EasterJoy]

And I guess my point is, the legitimacy of their sexual relationship has nothing to do with the outcomes for their children.

An old and tired debate on these forums. Have a nice weekend, all, and enjoy the big game.
Please pray for me, and I will pray for you.

Michaeljc4

It is disappointing that you find the importance of sexual virtue and passing the importance of that virtue on to children a concern that is old and tired. When virtue, any virtue, is dismissed as tiresome by the faithful, that is a very disturbing development, indeed.

 

[LisaA]

By their fruits shall you know them (there is a pun in there, actually…)

These two children, in this particular instance, will turn out to have lives much better than what they would have otherwise had. They will, God willing, be healthy, functional adults.
And that’s good enough, because the alternative, for them, was horror.

Think about that, will you? The results of what the Church is demeaning and discrediting is better than the alternative. These two children will be fine, better than fine, despite what he Church teaches.

Quite a lesson.

Peace, my brothers and sisters in Christ.

And you know this because? You know the future? You know this is the only POSSIBLE situation that would have worked for these children? Because you know that had a married couple had these children they would not have had better parenting?

Forgive me but you seem to have amazing powers of prediction here. As i said, anecdotes are not compelling. We can duel all day long with various situations where having gay/Lesbian parenting worked and where it was perverted into child abuse.

Nothing will overcome the reality that when ever you place a child in a situation that is not optimal, the child is deprived; deprived of a mommy or a daddy, deprived of seeing a normal marriage of a man and a woman, deprived of developing a relationship with a parent of the same as well as the opposite sex. None of this is an optimal situation.

 

[sailor28]

Yes, they are a family. This should not even be a question.

I know two gay men who are married (it is legal in my state.) They adopted two children, a boy and a girl, from social services. The parents (single moms) of both children were deemed unfit, and the children were put up for adoption. The girl was born with cocaine and alcohol in her system. The boy is the sibling of a child was was believed to have been sold by his birth mother some years before. Both children are minorities.

Had these two children not been adopted, thier life outcomes would have been grim, more likely than not. Living with these two married men, the children are thriving. They are healthy, secure, and doing well in school (after having received many services early on to help them; like early intervention). The children are learning musical instruments, playing sports, and are generally doing extremley well. Their dads are providing for them, financially, emotionally, and socially. They are happy.

According to many Catholics, they are not a family. According to our previous Pope, their adoption was ‘grave violence’ against these children.

In a sane world, the Church would recognize that this family needs all the same spiritual gifts and sacraments that mine does. They need community, faith, help, guidance, all of the things my more traditinonal family gets from our church family. Instead, this family will never, ever enter the doors of a Catholic Church. Why would they?

These children will live to their potential, and be healthy adults, because of their adoption by two loving, commited, married gay men. They are a family.

 

[sailor28]

" I have said that their positive accomplishment does not give legitimacy to their sexual relationship.

You must know that there are not a few in society who imply that providing a child with a loving home or even producing beautiful children does in fact give legitimacy to an immoral sexual relationship. I don’t just mean gays, but also heterosexuals who do this bait-and-switch."

Do you mean all couples, Catholic or not, who use contraception too? I missed something but I am not sure what you mean by “this bait and switch.” If you include all couples who use contraception in this judgment that is about 90% of the population of America.

 

[sailor28]

And you know this because? You know the future? You know this is the only POSSIBLE situation that would have worked for these children? Because you know that had a married couple had these children they would not have had better parenting?

Forgive me but you seem to have amazing powers of prediction here. As i said, anecdotes are not compelling. We can duel all day long with various situations where having gay/Lesbian parenting worked and where it was perverted into child abuse.

Nothing will overcome the reality that when ever you place a child in a situation that is not optimal, the child is deprived; deprived of a mommy or a daddy, deprived of seeing a normal marriage of a man and a woman, deprived of developing a relationship with a parent of the same as well as the opposite sex. None of this is an optimal situation.

The truth is there are about 400,000 kids in foster care in America. About 23,000 of them age out every year. That means they turn 18 and never get adopted. These kids don’t do so well. Being gay or lesbian does not mean you are more likely to sexually abuse a child. Abusing a child is pedophilia.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Let us say that two people each leave their marriages and enter into a second marriage. I mean legal bigamists. Then let us say that while openly living in this situation, they adopt children or have children themselves.

Their decision to become parents does not mean they are not bigamists. What it does is makes it harder to leave their illegitimate marriage, because they are parenting children together. Meanwhile, they are teaching their children and the world that it is perfectly OK to leave your spouse and marry someone else without the benefit of a divorce. They even seem to normalize their relationship by surrounding it with this family they have built. Can they easily split up and go back to the persons they are actually married to? How are they going to do that, when they have these children to care for? They have not righted the original problem, but only made it more difficult to deal with. Even if they see no problem, they are making themselves an example that teaches their children and the world that what they are doing is perfectly OK.

I am sorry E.J. but I can’t accept this.

“Meanwhile, they are teaching their children and the world that it is perfectly OK to leave your spouse and marry someone else without the benefit of a divorce.”

“Even if they see no problem, they are making themselves an example that teaches their children and the world that what they are doing is perfectly OK.”

It is **NOT OK **to leave your spouse and marry someone else without the benefit of a divorce. It is NOT OK for a Catholic to leave a spouse and marry someone else.

It would be a blatant CRIME to expose children to an openly bigamist relationship.

You also said:

“I would instead say that if a couple is in a morally problematic union, adding children does make the moral problem go away.”

Let’s say that morally problematic union is a same sex relationship. Adding children to that does not solve the moral problem…we still have an abnormal couple raising children.
No way does a same sex relationship become morally acceptable by adding children.

 

[Spiritualawoken]

Your post shows you have a lot to learn about what the Catholic Church teaches about homosexual acts and people who feel an inclination to commit them.

You are not alone, and Catholic Answers exists for precisely that reason!
catholic.com/tracts/homosexuality

Actually I have studied catholoism for 13 years. Anything that says homosexuality is anything but a good is thing did not come from the bible or Jesus. But from people who jad their vast opinions towards it. It seema that the catholic church has a lot to learn about life and openmindedness

 

[EasterJoy]

Actually I have studied catholoism for 13 years. Anything that says homosexuality is anything but a good is thing did not come from the bible or Jesus. But from people who jad their vast opinions towards it. It seema that the catholic church has a lot to learn about life and openmindedness

Actually I have studied catholoism for 13 years. Anything that says homosexuality is anything but a good is thing did not come from the bible or Jesus. But from people who jad their vast opinions towards it. It seema that the catholic church has a lot to learn about life and openmindedness

We could spot you twelve years of primary and secondary school before you spent thirteen years studying at a major seminary and it won’t overturn the teachings of thousands of years. How you have studied so long and yet convinced yourself that you are the authority over everyone else who ever studied this or over the Magesterium who has the authority to teach it is telling, let’s just say that.

Homosexuals are forming couples and rearing children, forming families in which they care for each other and their children. The Church recognizes this, as discussions at the synod in October attest. What the Church will not say is that the formation of these families give legitimacy to genital expressions of homosexuality, even between two people who have a long-standing and durable relationship. It does not.

 

[Spiritualawoken]

I’m not concerned with adoptive parents who provide shelter and love to children who would not receive it otherwise.

I am concerned with homosexuals who adopt a child who they raise in a unnatural environment. Who they inspire to follow in their ways. Who they convince that their deviant relationship is normal.

God’s idea of a Family is a Mom a Dad and the children they produce. Anything else MUST be labeled what it is…A homosexual family, an extended family, a broken family, a mixed family, an adoptive family, and so on.

There is only one REAL Family.

Deviant? So a couple whos comfortable with who they are, doing great things, and being loved by god is deviant behavior? What makes you so close to god to have a right into opposing and questioning people happiness?

 

[Spiritualawoken]

We could spot you twelve years of primary and secondary school before you spent thirteen years studying at a major seminary and it won’t overturn the teachings of thousands of years. How you have studied so long and yet convinced yourself that you are the authority over everyone else who ever studied this or over the Magesterium who has the authority to teach it is telling, let’s just say that.

Homosexuals are forming couples and rearing children, forming families in which they care for each other and their children. The Church recognizes this, as discussions at the synod in October attest. What the Church will not say is that the formation of these families give legitimacy to genital expressions of homosexuality, even between two people who have a long-standing and durable relationship. It does not.

Um , I think I have the right to express my opinion and to superior it if it aligns with compassion, openmindedness and common sense. We live on earth, not the “kingdom of god” christianity was PROVEN to have componets of other religons infused and influenced in it. Yet they dont open their eyes to it. If I walk into a Catholic church, With a Boyfriend , kissing and holding hands and a priest/nun or lay has a discriminated comment, they are not true followers of Christ. Christ taught love thy neighbor. God will love us sinfull and sinless. If god did not directly tell you small mind that homosexuality isnt natural, THEN you have no right to uphold an ancient scholar and your opinion to what jesus and god wanted

 

[DeniseNY]

Um , I think I have the right to express my opinion and to superior it if it aligns with compassion, openmindedness and common sense. We live on earth, not the “kingdom of god” christianity was PROVEN to have componets of other religons infused and influenced in it. Yet they dont open their eyes to it. If I walk into a Catholic church, With a Boyfriend , kissing and holding hands and a priest/nun or lay has a discriminated comment, they are not true followers of Christ. Christ taught love thy neighbor. God will love us sinfull and sinless. If god did not directly tell you small mind that homosexuality isnt natural, THEN you have no right to uphold an ancient scholar and your opinion to what jesus and god wanted

You can pontificate all you want about peace, love, and understanding; but your arguments kind of go out the window when you refer to someone’s “small mind”

 

[Spiritualawoken]

You can pontificate all you want about peace, love, and understanding; but your arguments kind of go out the window when you refer to someone’s “small mind”

EXACTLY. That was your perception that I said it rudley! Its all perceptions. When I said small mind, i refered to small mindedness figuring and stating that she is not opening up her mind to openess and acceptance because shes limiting her mindset to a book

 

[DeniseNY]

EXACTLY. That was your perception that I said it rudley! Its all perceptions. When I said small mind, i refered to small mindedness figuring and stating that she is not opening up her mind to openess and acceptance because shes limiting her mindset to a book

Exactly, what?

Are you really expecting people to put aside what is taught in the Catechism for what some random guy on the internet has to say?

 

[EasterJoy]

Um , I think I have the right to express my opinion and to superior it if it aligns with compassion, openmindedness and common sense. We live on earth, not the “kingdom of god” christianity was PROVEN to have componets of other religons infused and influenced in it. Yet they dont open their eyes to it. If I walk into a Catholic church, With a Boyfriend , kissing and holding hands and a priest/nun or lay has a discriminated comment, they are not true followers of Christ. Christ taught love thy neighbor. God will love us sinfull and sinless. If god did not directly tell you small mind that homosexuality isnt natural, THEN you have no right to uphold an ancient scholar and your opinion to what jesus and god wanted

Let me get this straight. You have a perfect right to walk into a Catholic church and judge who is and is not a “true follower of Christ” based on a thirty-second interaction, even the priests and the nuns, but if my path to my belief doesn’t meet your standards, then I have no right to uphold it? And this is compassion, open-mindedness, and common sense?

Behold, the Voice of Tolerance, 2015. I think our work is done here.

 

[DeniseNY]

Let me get this straight. You have a perfect right to walk into a Catholic church and judge who is and is not a “true follower of Christ” based on a thirty-second interaction, even the priests and the nuns, but if my path to my belief doesn’t meet your standards, then I have no right to uphold it? And this is compassion, open-mindedness, and common sense?

Behold, the Voice of Tolerance, 2015. I think our work is done here.

Yeah, I think that sums it up. Everyone is wrong except for… well, him.

 

[LisaA]

The truth is there are about 400,000 kids in foster care in America. About 23,000 of them age out every year. That means they turn 18 and never get adopted. These kids don’t do so well. Being gay or lesbian does not mean you are more likely to sexually abuse a child. Abusing a child is pedophilia.

Well actually it does but I imagine this isn’t on topic. You are right that there is a desperate need for qualified foster parents, particularly for special needs children. My point was not that gays and Lesbians always make bad parents but that they can never provide an optimal situation. Further your anecdote was this oh so wonderful everything is perfect scenario as if this were the norm for gay couples. In fact it is not and there are many pathologies associated with being gay from STDs to substance abuse to mental illness to suicide that are far higher in the gay community.

Do you argue the point that the optimal situation for any child is with his biological mommy and daddy?

If for whatever reason the biological parents are unable to parent is the next best scenario a married couple?

If neither is available then evaluate the potential situation in light of what’s in the best interest of the child…single male or female, same sex couple…,whatever offers the next best situation taking into account the needs of the child first and any selfish desires on the part of the adults as secondary.

Do you disagree?

 

[Rau]

…You must know that there are not a few in society who imply that providing a child with a loving home or even producing beautiful children does in fact give legitimacy to an immoral sexual relationship. I don’t just mean gays, but also heterosexuals who do this bait-and-switch.

That’s right. It’s as if a scorecard on the merits of gay couples is being drawn up, and by quoting the couple who adopted, a tick is earned in the “good” column of the balance sheet. But the good act (assuming it is properly intentioned) reflects that the persons involved can act with good intent, which was not in question. It says nothing of the particular acts they embrace in their personal relationship.