Can a man and a woman "just be friends?"

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VirtusTransitus said:
True friendship? Not if both are straight.

Friendship in a structured way, like two couples who do things together and never without their husband/wife? Or friendship in a work environment that as akin to comraderie? Yes.

The key is structure. If there’s no structure to impose disciplined limits, someone is going to eventually either end the friendship because it’s getting to be too much, or make a romantic move, causing something unfortunate to happen.

Just my 2c.

I have ZERO female friends in the true sense of the word - meaning unsupervise, unstructured intimacy. But in structured environments, I have a lot of female “buddies” and coworkers.
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In theory I disagree, in practice I don’t. I do think that men and women can just be friends in an unstructured way without anything happening or anyone wanting anything to happen. I am not attracted to every man I see, and men aren’t attracted to every woman they encounter, so it makes sense that I could have a solid friendship with a man that lacks any and all attraction. In fact, I do have those friendships.

However, when you are in a serious relationship, engaged, or married I think that it is disrespectful to your partner to be alone with members of the opposite sex. Not that your partner always needs to be there, but there does need to be at least a third person. Being alone could, no matter how unlikely it is, foster feelings and attractions that shouldn’t be there. It could also make you more likely to confide things in that person that you should be talking to your partner about instead. It could give outsiders the wrong view of your relationship with that friend. Or, worst of all, it could make your partner jealous, even if they never say anything about it.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
In theory I disagree, in practice I don’t. I do think that men and women can just be friends in an unstructured way without anything happening or anyone wanting anything to happen. I am not attracted to every man I see, and men aren’t attracted to every woman they encounter, so it makes sense that I could have a solid friendship with a man that lacks any and all attraction. In fact, I do have those friendships.

However, when you are in a serious relationship, engaged, or married I think that it is disrespectful to your partner to be alone with members of the opposite sex. Not that your partner always needs to be there, but there does need to be at least a third person. Being alone could, no matter how unlikely it is, foster feelings and attractions that shouldn’t be there. It could also make you more likely to confide things in that person that you should be talking to your partner about instead. It could give outsiders the wrong view of your relationship with that friend. Or, worst of all, it could make your partner jealous, even if they never say anything about it.
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That, and these things are unpredictable. Sometimes a too-close friend of the opposite sex can make the spouse suffer by comparison. That is not a good thing, and ought to be avoided, even at the cost of a friendship that is otherwise very valuable.
 
Some of this discussion hinges on the definition of friendship. In my post, I qualified my comments as applying to “true friendship”, which I think is rare and precious.

True friends are those you learn to deeply love and respect, in my definition.

I would agree that men and women can be friends in the sense of acquaintences who have common interests, share a sense of humor, enjoy the same kinds of hobbies, etc. These are friendships that I value, but not people who get my 2 am confessional phonecall about how I just totally screwed up and need someone to listen to my whining…

But if it’s a deep friendship…you’re texting each other at 2 am and discussing intimate details and crying on shoulders and all that…true friendship, intimate relationship…and you’re attracted to the gender of that friend…and that friend is attracted to your gender…there is a very high likelihood that one of you is going to begin having a romantic attraction that they either act out on or have to choke down, IMO.
 
Well, then I guess as a woman with bisexual attractions I am doomed to never have any friends ever. lol. I have always had friends of both genders most of which there was never any romantic or sexual interest with. I have had those awkward situations of where one had feelings and the other did not, but that was few and far between. The only person that was a friend that I ended up dating was my husband, but we were friends in High School and years later we saw each other again and started dating then. In High School we had no romantic interest in each other.

So anyways, whatever your attractions are you can be friends with the gender/s you are attracted to.
 
Perhaps its just me, and I’m too easily smitten… 😃

To be on the safe side…I avoid developing deep friendships with females who are not my direct relatives… 👍

I acknowledge that this might just be a “feature” of mine and not generally true for everyone. But I sorta intuit that it’s more often true than not…
 
VirtusTransitus said:
Perhaps its just me, and I’m too easily smitten… 😃

To be on the safe side…I avoid developing deep friendships with females who are not my direct relatives… 👍

I acknowledge that this might just be a “feature” of mine and not generally true for everyone. But I sorta intuit that it’s more often true than not…
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No, this is just good, sound practive to avoid the near occasion of sin and save yourself and others from heartache. Good for you.
 
The operative question is not “can they”, but “should they”. With God all things are possible, including true platonic relationships between members of the opposite sex wherein neither party nor their spouses experiences any discomfort and no one sins as a result.

The risks are simply not worth the rewards.

Those who ignore this are playing with fire.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
In theory I disagree, in practice I don’t. I do think that men and women can just be friends in an unstructured way without anything happening or anyone wanting anything to happen. I am not attracted to every man I see, and men aren’t attracted to every woman they encounter, so it makes sense that I could have a solid friendship with a man that lacks any and all attraction. In fact, I do have those friendships.

However, when you are in a serious relationship, engaged, or married I think that it is disrespectful to your partner to be alone with members of the opposite sex. Not that your partner always needs to be there, but there does need to be at least a third person. Being alone could, no matter how unlikely it is, foster feelings and attractions that shouldn’t be there. It could also make you more likely to confide things in that person that you should be talking to your partner about instead. It could give outsiders the wrong view of your relationship with that friend. Or, worst of all, it could make your partner jealous, even if they never say anything about it.
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I am fifteen years married, BlueEyedLady, and your advice is actually how I have been my entire marriage. I have never once regretted it. 😃
 
johndelacruz said:
Has the asker of this question ever heard of St. Francis and St. Clare of Assisi?

If not, look them up - their relationship can serve as a sort of model of godly and chaste male/female friendships.

You are emblematic of our over-sexualized culture - you really need to expand your study to get beyond your very limited and distorted view of friendship and human sexuality.

I think you believe all people in the world are like you and your friends - but this world is a much bigger and richer place than what you suppose.
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A beautiful point and one that I will use whenever people tell me the possible is impossible. Thank you,
Dara
 
hurting said:
The operative question is not “can they”, but “should they”. With God all things are possible, including true platonic relationships between members of the opposite sex wherein neither party nor their spouses experiences any discomfort and no one sins as a result.

The risks are simply not worth the rewards.

Those who ignore this are playing with fire.
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I don’t think that is true, and I say that from a marriage where both spouses have opposite sex friends. The risks do not have to be high and the rewards can be very great…provided the possibility of a fire is respected, rather than neglected. That is the key. Never take it for granted that a platonic friendship between opposite sex friends will stay that way, and always keep the relationship transparent to spouses, common friends, and member of the general public who could recognize you. Anybody ought to be able to watch you, all of the time.

We do have the rule that we each have veto power over the other, no questions asked. This is an important rule, because sometimes outsiders sense a sea change in a friendship well before the people actually in the friendship notice it. So if any fellow I might be friends with made my husband uncomfortable, then I would not argue with my husband about it. I’d put whatever distance in that my husband thought appropriate.** Your spouse’s feelings have to come first. Period!**
 
johndelacruz said:
Has the asker of this question ever heard of St. Francis and St. Clare of Assisi?

If not, look them up - their relationship can serve as a sort of model of godly and chaste male/female friendships.

You are emblematic of our over-sexualized culture - you really need to expand your study to get beyond your very limited and distorted view of friendship and human sexuality.

I think you believe all people in the world are like you and your friends - but this world is a much bigger and richer place than what you suppose.
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Respectfully disagree. Sex is not the issue. It’s about intimate relationships and what that means.

And using two cannonized Saints as a model for universal behavior is, well, optimistic to be ridiculously generous.

As BEL pointed out - there is a theoretical side to this question that says men and women, in theory, SHOULD be able to be platonic, true friends.

There is a practical side that says, in almost all cases, there have to be strict limits and rules to protect the parties involved.

I personally think its safe to say that 90% of folks would be FAR safer following the practical side. I recognize that there are probably some folks on this board who are headed for sainthood, and to them I say congratulations and you get a waiver! 👍😃
 
I thought that you could have friends of any sex that did not involve anything but a friendship.

I think this is possible but as this thread has pointed out, not with all men or women.

My husband has female friends that were his friends before I became friends with them. They enrich my life.

I don’t know, I am kind of bewildered by the thought that you can’t have friends without them wanting “more”?
 
I guess it is possible. But truthfully, between life and family and work and kids and staying healthy/exercising everyday and getting that Master’s Degree, I don’t have the time that i used to so it is a moot issue not just for me but most people i know…
 
If you cannot be platonic with friends of the opposite sex, there is probably something you should examine within your conscience.
 
hurting said:
No, this is just good, sound practive to avoid the near occasion of sin and save yourself and others from heartache. Good for you.
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So what about people like me who have bisexual attractions? Can I never have any close friends? That doesn’t seem healthy or practical. I try to keep myself out of situations where I am alone with someone I find to be attractive for any extended period of time, but heck I need other people in my life that I am close to other than my husband and family especially because all my family lives around 2,000 miles away from me.
 
joshvanrad said:
If you cannot be platonic with friends of the opposite sex, there is probably something you should examine within your conscience.
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Because of my job and hobbies, I have a lot of male friends (and I am female). All those relationships are platonic and these men have not once shown interest in me (and I am single to them… I am divorced, but I am still going though the tribunal process. But let’s face it… to most non-Catholics, I would be considered single and 100% available). I am not interested in them that way either.

It might just be that everyone has weaknesses and temptations. For some, it’s sex and maybe those people can’t have platonic relationships with the opposite sex. I think sometimes people don’t understand that just because it’s a temptation for them, it’s not necessarily a temptation for everyone else too.

If you want an example of this, here’s a temptation of mine. I can’t have candy in my house. I will think about it and think about it and eventually give in and pig out on it if it’s there. I don’t tell other people it’s “impossible” for them to resist candy just because I can’t. And I don’t assume they must be secret gluttons or deceiving themselves because they tell me they aren’t tempted by it. I am well aware this is my own weakness and that other people that are capable of keeping candy in their houses without becoming gluttonous; but me, I can’t. So I just don’t buy it and don’t have it around.

And yes, it might sound silly and not serious to some. But I think it’s a good analogy. And gluttony is still a deadly sin (and candy isn’t healthy for you either).
 
The subject is also, I think, a bigger frustration for those of us who spend most of our time in largely opposite-sex situations. I go to work and school in classes that are almost all male, then go spend time with gaming groups that share my interests. Frequently I’m the only woman there, or if there is another woman or two they’re just not someone I’m interested in friendship with.

It gets very tiring, though, feeling like no one can be friends with you because “there might be something else going on.” I understand the analogy with candy, but - I’m sorry, I’m not a piece of candy or cake, I’m a human being. And being told that people “can’t be just friends” with me makes me feel very sad and degraded, like I can’t be anything other than a sex object to them.

I understand that it’s hard for some people. But I think it’s at least worth considering what the effect of that attitude might be on other people. It’s not so simple as just avoiding situations of temptation, at least not when the alternate risk can be isolating another human.
 
EasterJoy said:
I don’t think that is true, and I say that from a marriage where both spouses have opposite sex friends. The risks do not have to be high and the rewards can be very great…provided the possibility of a fire is respected, rather than neglected. That is the key. Never take it for granted that a platonic friendship between opposite sex friends will stay that way, and always keep the relationship transparent to spouses, common friends, and member of the general public who could recognize you. Anybody ought to be able to watch you, all of the time.

We do have the rule that we each have veto power over the other, no questions asked. This is an important rule, because sometimes outsiders sense a sea change in a friendship well before the people actually in the friendship notice it. So if any fellow I might be friends with made my husband uncomfortable, then I would not argue with my husband about it. I’d put whatever distance in that my husband thought appropriate.** Your spouse’s feelings have to come first. Period!**
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For all intents and purposes, the long list of restrictions you describe, and more importantly, your mutual willingness to assent to them suggests that these opposite sex friends to whom you refer are not true, deep friends on the same level as those of the same sex. Friendship is not something that is subject to the arbirtary termination by a third party.

You responded with a specific response (your own personal situation) that is not generalizable to the population as a whole. The opposite sex friends protocol you hold for your marriage makes my case, not yours. You are your husband (and all of your opposite sex friends may be paragons of virtue and immune to temptation), although Isuspect from your posts that you humbly recognize that you are not.

*Why invite the real or potential heartache? *
 
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