Can a Roman Catholic Attend a Byzantine Catholic Liturgy?

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Sorry I started this thread, I couldn’t imagine that it would cause all this arguing… 😟
 
Actually, it prompted me to read up on the history of the Melkites. I spit coffee on my screen when I read about how the Pope had the Melkite patriarch thrown to the ground and then put his foot on his head. I read a lot about the medieval papacy. so stuff like this is mild as far as papal behavior is concerned. What got me was that this happened in the 1870s, not in the ninth century.
 
MCH1 said:
Sorry I started this thread, I couldn’t imagine that it would cause all this arguing… 😟
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LOL !!! You started a thread on an internet forum and didn’t expect it to start an argument???

That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard this week. Thanks!
 
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AndrewAxland said:
Actually, it prompted me to read up on the history of the Melkites. I spit coffee on my screen when I read about how the Pope had the Melkite patriarch thrown to the ground and then put his foot on his head. I read a lot about the medieval papacy. so stuff like this is mild as far as papal behavior is concerned. What got me was that this happened in the 1870s, not in the ninth century.
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Shocking, isn’t it?
 
babochka said:
Shocking, isn’t it?
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Mild, compared to the “Cadaver Synod”:

Probably around January 897, Stephen VI ordered that the corpse of his predecessor Formosus be removed from its tomb and brought to the papal court for judgment. With the corpse propped up on a throne, a deacon was appointed to answer for the deceased pontiff.

Formosus was accused of transmigrating sees in violation of canon law, of perjury, and of serving as a bishop while actually a layman. Eventually, the corpse was found guilty. Liutprand and other sources say that, after having the corpse stripped of its papal vestments, Stephen then cut off the three fingers of the right hand that it had used in life for blessings, next formally invalidating all of Formosus’ acts and ordinations (including, ironically, his ordination of Stephen VI as bishop of Anagni). The body was finally interred in a graveyard for foreigners, only to be dug up once again, tied to weights, and cast into the Tiber River.
 
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marhaba said:
I use baby wipes for the electronics.
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I used to use baby wipes for everything when my boys were little. They’ve outgrown that stage (they’re in college now) so I don’t have any on hand.

Glad I had the chance to chat with you! God Bless!
 
Blessings
You know, I sometimes seem like an outsider here, though raised in RC. I was told not to read BIBLE 1958-62? Others, yes we do! No problem. Glad we all are.
Then, GREEK ORTHO, went once. Priest stated strongly only Ortho=1998(?).
This will be different. My son lives in Rep.of Ga. It’s GEORGIAN/RUSSIAN ORTHO. No communion. Plus, my DIL, here in USA, wasn’t allowed to go into my RC church. I must have gremlins… SIGH…
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
 
tweedlealice said:
Plus, my DIL, here in USA, wasn’t allowed to go into my RC church.
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Why would they not allow her in? Unless she was dressed really inappropriately, I can’t imagine any reason for not letting anyone inside a church. I mean, there ONCE was a time when non-baptized people were not allowed to enter Catholic churches, but that was more than a thousand years ago.
 
marhaba said:
I was referring to Melkite belief which is identical to Eastern Orthodox belief in every way.
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Are you referring to Catholics (i.e. in union with Rome)?

If one is a part of the Catholic Church, I do not see how one’s beliefs could possibly be “identical to Eastern Orthodox belief in every way.” Perhaps the theological approach differs from many in the Latin Rite, but isn’t the point of the Catholic Church to have universal dogma?
 
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AndrewAxland said:
If you are a Roman Catholic of ANY rite, Latin, Byzantine, Marionite or Melkite. you have absolutely no choice but to accept the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the BVM without question. Failure to do so is heresy, and puts one outside of the Church.
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You are wrong because Melkites are not outside of the Catholic Church. And here is what they believe according to an official Melkite website:
Pius IX’s unilateral declaration of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception was considered imprudent by Byzantine Catholics.
Since the Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox do not understand Original Sin in the same way as the Latins, the concept of the Immaculate Conception makes no sense in Eastern theology
The Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox believe that only an Ecumenical Council can declare dogma.
We truly believe in that the Theotokos is “pure, spotless, stainless, immaculate”. But, the Melkite Greek Catholic Church does not make this event dogma because it is not essential for salvation, that is this event is not seen as specifically bearing on the life and mission of Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
http://www.mliles.com/melkite/theotokosminorconception.shtml
 
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marhaba said:
As for the doctrine of Mary. No - Melkites & other Byzantines do not believe in it. As I explained when none of us are born with original - or any - sin; then to make it a doctrine & dogmatism that Maryam was is against Byzantine belief. As I wrote a priest told me that this speaks of her as though she is “a goddess”. This we believe is haram (forbidden).
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I believe that this is quite misleading. Byzantine theology does absolutely teach original/ancestral sin. We just don’t understand it in the same way as the West has traditionally understood it. We are born with original sin - otherwise we would not suffer death. Here is an excellent treatment of the subject from the Antiochian Orthodox church: Ancestral Versus Original Sin | St. Mary Orthodox Church of Central Square in Cambridge, Massachusetts

As far as the Western view of Original Sin/Immaculate Conception making Mary a goddess, that’s just ridiculous and must be based on a serious misunderstanding of both the Western concept of Original Sin and of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which essentially states that Mary was born in the same state as Eve was before her. How does that make her a goddess?

The East and West believe that same thing about Mary - she was all-Holy. The Dogma of the Immaculate Conception explains this reality from the point of view of the Western concept of Original Sin, which is not shared by the East.

Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware presents the issue this way:
The Orthodox Church has never in fact made any formal and definitive pronouncement on the matter. In the past individual Orthodox have made statements which, if not definitely affirming the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, at any rate approach close to it; but since 1854 the great majority of Orthodox have rejected the doctrine, for several reasons. They feel it to be unnecessary; they feel that, at any rate as defined by the Roman Catholic Church, it implies a false understanding of original sin; they suspect the doctrine because it seems to separate Mary from the rest of the descendants of Adam, putting her in a completely different class from all the other righteous men and women of the Old Testament. From the Orthodox point of view, however, the whole question belongs to the realm of theological opinion; and if an individual Orthodox today felt impelled to believe in the Immaculate Conception, he or she could not be termed a heretic for so doing" (4).
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That’s meaningless diplomatic posturing. What is important in that statement is what they didn’t say, namely that Mary was born with original sin. Rome is apparently satisfied that this essentially translates as acceptance of the dogma, and there is no reason this time to step on anybody’s head.
 
AndrewAxland said:
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Augustinian:
They can, and many do, just receive sacraments in the Latin rite
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Apparently, there is a bureaucratic structure in place to discourage “poaching” by one right from the other, and it’s taken quite seriously.
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Thirty eight years ago I joined the Catholic Church and was received into the Latin Rite, naturally as this was all I familiar with and where I had had my instruction. Soon afterwards I met another Catholic who told me that I should have chosen the Byzantine rite while I had the chance, to avoid the sad state of much of the Latin rite! Obviously he thought it would be much harder to change rites later.
 
Salutations
Believe me, she is the perfect DIL. I’m wondering if their BIBLE IS GNOSTIC? I gave coloring books to kids, she thought I was trying to convert them. It was Noah’s Ark, the Nativity, Jesus w kids. Good grief. I can’t talk to priest. Language problem.
One friend moved here. She speaks English. I took her to Greek church and Russian Ortho (new-only gets priest 2x’s /month. She stays home. I said, the world is in bad shape. Her kids are in public school. I suggested she pick one to keep God alive in their lives. It’s like 1950 in GA.
No tattoos Or piercings. I saw one kid w a Mohawk. They all take music. Just pick an instrument. No, I DONT WANT TO DO THAT.
I digress, again. I guess Isolation so they won’t learn wrong things.!?!!
I hope I get over there one more time.
It’s a terrible trip. 21 hrs. 17 in the air and 6 hr layover in Munich. I can’t fly business or first class. Funny! SIGH!
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
 
I do understand exactly what you are saying.

The only thing in what you wrote that Rome cares about is “Mary was born without original sin”. You might not consider it as acceptance of the dogma, but Rome does. That’s all they care about.

You’re happy. They’re happy. Life is beautiful!
 
I mean, the nature of the BVM, the first of the saints, whose nature, in some senses, tells us how to view Christ, isint really politics…
 
marhaba said:
It is true in places in Eastern Europe also; that have traditional mixed Catholic & Orthodox populations
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Yes it is. However, it is advisable for a Catholic to ask permission of the Orthodox priest first.
 
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