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TrueLight
Guest
Well, if one practices Catholicism, one is a Catholic. If one practices traditional Catholicism, one is a --------?
I’m going to step back now and see what others say.
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I’m going to step back now and see what others say.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I refer you to the pope’s quote.
Specifically;
“This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly; he cannot be saved” (Athanas. Creed). There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism: it is quite enough for each one to proclaim “Christian is my name and Catholic my surname,” only let him endeavour to be in reality what he calls himself."
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Zhenia
Guest
Claire, If the standard definition of “Traditional Roman Catholic” is one who favors the Tridentine Mass and the pre-Vatican II forms of the other sacraments as well (and this is the standard definition, I’ve never heard any other), you would probably be considered a “conservative Catholic”.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
So what do you think about the pope’s comment about not using such labels?
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archangel04
Guest
I think there is a huge difference between traditional catholic and sedes or schismatics. Any faithfuly Catholic is a Traditional Catholic regardles of what form of the mass you go or what allowable practice you choose. To be a traditional Catholic is one who preffers traditions that are subject to change through time.
In all honesty though I’ve gotten bored with the same deals on these forums. So I am going to start posting less and less.
In all honesty though I’ve gotten bored with the same deals on these forums. So I am going to start posting less and less.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
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archangel04
Guest
Why am I not surprisedReally? Give me a second here…
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ConstantineTG
Guest
At what?
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
The description of the Mass seems pretty good except the homily is to be related to the scripture readings. So it’s unlikely these would be homily topics, except maybe on their feastdays?I am a very traditional person, almost what you might call a “traditionalist conservative”, “reactionary”, “high tory” (sans the “Papist” propaganda), etc., and I love the O.F. of Mass. My soul is caught up in great joy when imagining it said ad orientem, filled with incense, broken in two by an orthodox homily, and filled with the most glorious music in human history. It is simply the holy Mass, and prayers within it may be offered for Popes, kings, cardinals, and all men. There is nothing anti-conservative or non-traditionalist about a truly well-meant, well-prayed, and well-done O.F. celebration, in my opinion.
Can anyone conceive of a parish where the O.F. is prayed using chant for the Introit, Kyrie, Gloria, Epistle, Gospel, Credo, Preface, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei? Swirling incense, altar servers in cassocks/surplices, the only instrument accompaniment the organ (if it must be done…)? I’ve never seen or heard of such a thing, but it must exist. The celebrant might give a homily on St. John Chrysostom’s teaching, or the style of St. Paul, or the mannerisms of St. Bonaventure’s theology. So many beautiful things are possible in both forms of Mass… cutting attendees into convenient sects is… well, inconvenient.
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
I also was wondering exactly why this forum exists and agree with what you say.
It would seem that someone going to a forum called ‘Traditional Catholicism’ could expect to find ‘Traditional Catholics’ discussing ‘Traditional Catholic’ topics. Or perhaps ‘traditional Catholic’ issues. Or… ?
And then I read serious discussions about what color or style of mantilla should ‘traditionally’ be worn on certain occasions and have to laugh when I think back to a time American women wore hats in church, not veils, except for some Hispanics. Sometimes it appears the new Traditionalists are making up their own new traditions based on their ideas of what used to be the norm and investing them with weighty significance. This is not meant to disparage mantillas, which are an attractive and practical alternative to the hat, just not liturgically significant. How significant was it really when a piece of wrinkled tissue or, lacking all else, a mitten, bobby-pinned to one’s hair was considered more reverent than a bared head?
But maybe the discussion of mantillas and my friend’s childhood memory of wearing a mitten on her head are both appropriate here in this not very well defined forum.
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Tears_of_Assisi
Guest
I also was wondering exactly why this forum exists and agree with what you say.
It would seem that someone going to a forum called ‘Traditional Catholicism’ could expect to find ‘Traditional Catholics’ discussing ‘Traditional Catholic’ topics. Or perhaps ‘traditional Catholic’ issues. Or… ?
And then I read serious discussions about what color or style of mantilla should ‘traditionally’ be worn on certain occasions and have to laugh when I think back to a time American women wore hats in church, not veils, except for some Hispanics. Sometimes it appears the new Traditionalists are making up their own new traditions based on their ideas of what used to be the norm and investing them with weighty significance. This is not meant to disparage mantillas, which are an attractive and practical alternative to the hat, just not liturgically significant. How significant was it really when a piece of wrinkled tissue or, lacking all else, a mitten, bobby-pinned to one’s hair was considered more reverent than a bared head?
But maybe the discussion of mantillas and my friend’s childhood memory of wearing a mitten on her head are both appropriate here in this not very well defined forum.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Where does it say that? I’ve heard priests give Homilies on the lives of Saints whose day is celebrated that day or that week.
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TrueLight
Guest
Well remember the moderator says this forum is getting a facelift (there’s a sticky) and here are some possible thread ideas:I also was wondering exactly why this forum exists and agree with what you say.
It would seem that someone going to a forum called ‘Traditional Catholicism’ could expect to find ‘Traditional Catholics’ discussing ‘Traditional Catholic’ topics. Or perhaps ‘traditional Catholic’ issues. Or… ?
And then I read serious discussions about what color or style of mantilla should ‘traditionally’ be worn on certain occasions and have to laugh when I think back to a time American women wore hats in church, not veils, except for some Hispanics. Sometimes it appears the new Traditionalists are making up their own new traditions based on their ideas of what used to be the norm and investing them with weighty significance. This is not meant to disparage mantillas, which are an attractive and practical alternative to the hat, just not liturgically significant. How significant was it really when a piece of wrinkled tissue or, lacking all else, a mitten, bobby-pinned to one’s hair was considered more reverent than a bared head?
But maybe the discussion of mantillas and my friend’s childhood memory of wearing a mitten on her head are both appropriate here in this not very well defined forum.
Code:
Extraordinary Form of the Liturgy
Church History
Classics of Western Spirituality
Classics in Western Theology
Customs
Church writings
The Fathers of the Church
The Desert Fathers & Mothers
The great schools of Western spirituality
The stories of the saints
Western religious orders and religious congregations
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TrueLight
Guest
Why do you call yourself a Byzantine Traditional Catholic, then?
And I’m only referring to the ‘Traditional’ part.
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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
This term has acquired a very specific meaning these days, and it is generally understood that a ‘traditional’ Catholic prefers the traditional liturgy and customs. For that reason I don’t consider those who prefer the NO to be traditional Catholics.
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TrueLight
Guest
Emphasis mine. It is what it is.
I have seen conservative folks who love the OF called Orthodox. What do you think of that term?
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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
I like that. I think it describes the situation better.
Emphasis mine. It is what it is.
I have seen conservative folks who love the OF called Orthodox. What do you think of that term?
What interests me is why people don’t leave us with the term ‘traditional’ and insist on pretending that words don’t matter? Of course they matter. People will always have a way of defining themselves in some way. Ideally we would all be really, truly Catholic without ifs and buts, and there would be no need for labels. But the reality is different. The way we define ourselves is the sign of our times I guess. But this too shall pass one day
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Indyann
Guest
It would pass a lot quicker, if some would heed the words of Pope Benedict. That would be the “traditional” way.I like that. I think it describes the situation better.
What interests me is why people don’t leave us with the term ‘traditional’ and insist on pretending that words don’t matter? Of course they matter. People will always have a way of defining themselves in some way. Ideally we would all be really, truly Catholic without ifs and buts, and there would be no need for labels. But the reality is different. The way we define ourselves is the sign of our times I guess. But this too shall pass one day
Here’s a “traditional” pope on the topic. From HH Pope Benedict XV’s encyclical Beatissimi Apostolorum:
“24. It is, moreover, Our will that Catholics should abstain from certain appellations which have recently been brought into use to distinguish one group of Catholics from another. They are to be avoided not only as “profane novelties of words,” out of harmony with both truth and justice, but also because they give rise to great trouble and confusion among Catholics. Such is the nature of Catholicism that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole or as a whole rejected: “This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly; he cannot be saved” (Athanas. Creed). There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism: it is quite enough for each one to proclaim “Christian is my name and Catholic my surname,” only let him endeavour to be in reality what he calls himself.”
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CB_Catholic
Guest
Just thought this bears repeating.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
We are not Orthodox with a capital “O”. We are Catholic. Our beliefs are orthodox, not heterodox. A Catholic whose beliefs are in line with the Church is a Catholic, no descriptive term needed.
Emphasis mine. It is what it is.
I have seen conservative folks who love the OF called Orthodox. What do you think of that term?
There is ONE, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I believe that is what the Pope’s quote is trying to get across, to remind us of our oneness.
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