Can an ex-sex offender become religious or Priest?

[YoungCatholic21]

This comes down to mental illness as well. This would require a miracle that can’t even be confirmed and validated. How would you know with 100% certainty the person will not re-offend? Would you be willing to sign your name to a letter stating the person is cured of his sexual deviant behavior and mental illness and is of no risk to anyone?

This is also a huge liability factor too.

How can you know that any offender will not sin again? How do I know that I or you will not sin again? We do not, so we must have humility, and pray for grace, for an effectual conversion. Dying to ourselves daily, we must beg the intercession of Our Lady and the mercy of Almighty God.

Remember, with men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

God Bless You and Yours.

 

[PJM]

=GodHeals;9970815]Hi,

I am wondering if the Catholic Church would allow an ex-sex offender to become religious or Priest? Please let me know where to find such information.

Thank you,
Brian

MOST LIKELY NOT!

Certianly not with any open to the public religious group.

On a case by case basis perhaps in a cloisterd Order; but even that is extremely unlikely

 

[GodHeals]

The responses were helpful. Thank You. It does seem to be a controversial matter, based on all of the responses, with most people being against the idea.

Most people think registered sex offenders had sexual misconduct with a minor. What if it was with another non-consenting adult or rape of some sort, which range in variety? There are different levels of offense. And this person has had a great spiritual conversion of the heart?

Did I read something on this thread regarding Canon Law or a similar binding church law that prior offenses of laymen would automatically make a layperson ineligible to become a religious (or Priest)? So we cannot use the Canon Law you proposed Brother, from what i read on the thread, but there are other church documents pointing against it?

Thank you again for the help.

 

[JReducation]

The responses were helpful. Thank You. It does seem to be a controversial matter, based on all of the responses, with most people being against the idea.

Most people think registered sex offenders had sexual misconduct with a minor. What if it was with another non-consenting adult or rape of some sort, which range in variety? There are different levels of offense. And this person has had a great spiritual conversion of the heart?

Did I read something on this thread regarding Canon Law or a similar binding church law that prior offenses of laymen would automatically make a layperson ineligible to become a religious (or Priest)? So we cannot use the Canon Law you proposed Brother, from what i read on the thread, but there are other church documents pointing against it?

Thank you again for the help.

We must always remember several things about Canon Law.

1. It is not meant for the layman anymore than heart surgery is meant for the layman. Canon Law is written for lawyers by lawyers.
2. Canon law does not stand alone. It rests on theology and philosophy.
3. Love is not allowed in Canon Law. It is deliberately left out and its use is prohibited when dealing in a legal case. Legal cases must be resolved by cold Roman reason. It must be Roman reason, not any other legal school.
4. The authority enforcing the law also has margin to interpret the law. The higher the authority, the greater the margin. The man in the pew does not have as much margin as an archbishop. Roman Law is designed with an aristocracy in mind. It’s not egalitarian as it English law. Though I’m not so sure that English law is as egalitarian as Good King John foresaw it.
5. Treat Canon Law like you would treat the constitution. It’s not the whole of the law. There are other laws at other levels. When possible, those laws are more restrictive or more expansive, just the like a constitution. Canon law sets parameters, proper law can be much more specific, it can even be quite rigid where Canon Law can be much more generous. In this case, one can say that Canon Law cannot be applied retroactively. However, there is nothing in Canon Law that says that proper law cannot be applied retroactively. Therefore, a founder may write such regulations into the statutes of his community. A bishop may do so in the policies of his diocese. A general chapter may create a constitution that is very tight in this matter. As long as the paper does not say, “You can’t write such proper law” then you can. This has been tested in tribunals and dioceses and religious orders have won.

A wonderful example of this, which has nothing to do with abuse, but has to do with what Canon Law allows and forbids. In the Dominican’s statutes, St. Dominic wrote that the Dominicans will venerate every Francsican, speak of them reverently, never find ill in them no matter what a Franciscan does, protect all Franciscans, be generous to them, and never contradict a Franciscan. There is nothing in Canon Law that says that a member of one religious institute must have such devotion and respect for another very specific institute. Remember, Dominic is not saying, “Be nice to all religious.” He’s singling out the Franciscans and he declares this to be law in perpetuity.

To this day, the Dominicans have typically avoided all conflicts with Franciscans and to this day, the relationship is one of great affection and respect. This is an example of proper law going beyond what Canon Law says about the obligation of religious to work cooperatively for the good of the Church. This gives the Franciscans an edge, because Francis does not reciprocate. Francis, writes a similar admonition that applies only to how we treat diocesan priests, not Dominicans or any other religious. Again, that admonition is upheld by the Church, even though the law does not make room for it.

My point, in reading Canon Law, beware that somewhere there is going to be a piece of paper that says more than the law says and that piece of paper is binding. Be careful not to jump to fast because Canon Law says so, unless you know that there is no other position on that point.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[mafh]

Ok, so if people on sex offender registries can’t be religious or priests, do they have other vocational options available to them? I understand about not putting sex offenders in positions of authority and in positions where they might be working with vulnerable populations. I can also understand why they wouldn’t be allowed in a religious community, though I think this is somewhat unfortunate since the structure therein might help heal their condition.

I do think that it is necessary to deliberately cultivate a feeling of compassion for sex offenders, because it doesn’t come naturally… the natural impulse is to shun them, out of an urge to protect yourself and your loved ones. Do you agree? If so, what is the path forward that maintains compassion and charity towards them, and gives them the opportunity for spiritual growth, while at the same time protecting others from the consequences of their possible relapses?

Anyway, just some related questions I had while reading this thread.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

The responses were helpful. Thank You. It does seem to be a controversial matter, based on all of the responses, with most people being against the idea.

Most people think registered sex offenders had sexual misconduct with a minor. What if it was with another non-consenting adult or rape of some sort, which range in variety? There are different levels of offense. And this person has had a great spiritual conversion of the heart?

IMHO, and as a person educated in criminal behaviour and psychology, and who worked in the Correctional system as a probation officer, thus responsible for supervising these people while on probation (yes, in Canada, these types of offenses get probation, and are sometimes proceeded by a short term of imprisonment, which can often be served in the community, thus under my supervision), I can tell you that regardless of the nature of the offense, the vast majority of the time (unless it’s a cultural thing with immigrants where such behaviour is deemed permissible) severe mental illness is still involved. We were forbidden from ever saying that an offender would never re-offend. At best, and only if the person based on professional risk evaluations was classified as “low risk” at the time their sentence expired, we were permitted to say they were " a low risk to re-offend".

We are required to be prudent when making decisions and we know past behaviour predicts future behaviour pretty accurately. Given the amount of damage the victims of these offenses go through, the risk isn’t worth it. Maybe you’ve never had to speak to the victims or their families of sexual assault or pedophilia, but I have. It’s a very difficult thing to do.

Far be it from me to condemn these people (Given the prevalence of severe mental illness in many of these offenses, I would strongly question if there even was all three conditions met for it to be a mortal sin) but there is temporal punishment due to sin, and this is one of them.

 

[april32010]

Ok, so if people on sex offender registries can’t be religious or priests, do they have other vocational options available to them?

don’t have a clue do you?

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Ok, so if people on sex offender registries can’t be religious or priests, do they have other vocational options available to them? I understand about not putting sex offenders in positions of authority and in positions where they might be working with vulnerable populations. I can also understand why they wouldn’t be allowed in a religious community, though I think this is somewhat unfortunate since the structure therein might help heal their condition.

I do think that it is necessary to deliberately cultivate a feeling of compassion for sex offenders, because it doesn’t come naturally… the natural impulse is to shun them, out of an urge to protect yourself and your loved ones. Do you agree? If so, what is the path forward that maintains compassion and charity towards them, and gives them the opportunity for spiritual growth, while at the same time protecting others from the consequences of their possible relapses?

Anyway, just some related questions I had while reading this thread.

This isn’t something that can be “healed” like a broken leg. It’s something that has to be managed. I have anxiety. I will always have anxiety, but I had to learn how to manage it. That doesn’t mean I have been cured of anxiety and will never have another anxiety attack. That means I have to be aware of what triggers my anxiety attacks and know what to do to either ward them off, or minimize them. I still have flare ups of anxiety, and I always will. They’ve just been significantly reduced and are more manageable. This is my cross to bear and to suffer.

These people can still function in the world. For those who aren’t already married, they are likely called to live in the single state in a life of celibacy for the kingdom of God, and to live a life of service to the Church in a matter that is appropriate to them. They are still capable of living a life a prayer, penance, and sacrifice. They can still volunteer in areas that don’t put them at risk.

The best thing to do is to is to treat them as human beings worth dignity and respect, while at the same time being prudent and using discretion when dealing with them. For example, those who have small children and are convicted of pedophilia, and the wife decides to not to separate, she has to use prudence in never leaving leaving the children alone with the father. It’s also important that parish communities respect the person’s right to privacy (even if it is public knowledge) and not going around gossiping about so-and-so being whatever. That said, prudence and discretion must be used if you see so-and-so with Little Johnny or Little Suzy.

 

[JReducation]

Ok, so if people on sex offender registries can’t be religious or priests, do they have other vocational options available to them?

It’s important that we remember that being a deacon, priest, bishop, brother or sister is not a vocational option. It’s an invitation to a very select group of people. It’s an invitation from Christ and an invitation that we do not deserve and to which we have no right. Those of us who have been invited to Holy Orders and to the consecrated life have no idea why me. Christ called. I had the option to say yes or no. I did not wake up one morning and make a choice to be a consecrated religious. That idea was put there by God. Think about it this way. God is not an equal opportunity employer.

I understand about not putting sex offenders in positions of authority and in positions where they might be working with vulnerable populations. I can also understand why they wouldn’t be allowed in a religious community, though I think this is somewhat unfortunate since the structure therein might help heal their condition.

Here too we must consider many variables. First is the purpose of a religious community. A religious community is a gift that the Holy Spirit gives to the Church, because it’s essential to the spiritual life of the Church. Religious life is to the Church what a picture is to a book. Without the picture, the words may be lost on the student. Without the religious life the Church does not have a visual of the Kingdom of Heaven. The religious community is a prophetic gift.

The structure of every religious community is meant to help live life in the Kingdom of God while still on earth. It’s not supposed to be medical or therapeutic. People are healed in Purgatory, not in heaven. We have to be careful not to use the religious life as if it were purgatory, when it’s supposed to be a foreshadowing of heaven.

Now we have two parts here.

1. The vocation to the religious life is not an option, but a gift from God.
2. The religious life should foreshadow heaven, not purgatory.

The third and equally important point is that the most important duty of every bishop is to protect his Church. The most important duty of every religious superior is to protect his religious community. There are certain medical conditions that can do serious damage. This is one of them.

If so, what is the path forward that maintains compassion and charity towards them, and gives them the opportunity for spiritual growth, while at the same time protecting others from the consequences of their possible relapses?

We must never forget that the sex offender has a medical problem. That’s first. We’re not dealing with common criminals here. Many of these folks have a very good heart. Yet, the conscience turns off when placed in a situation with a vulnerable person. We’re not sure how or why this happens. If we knew this, we would be on the way to finding a cure.

In addition, we must always keep in mind that the sex offender remains a child of God and a child of the Church. He or she has as much right to be part of the faith community as anyone else. But there has to be prudence.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[GodHeals]

IMHO, and as a person educated in criminal behaviour and psychology, and who worked in the Correctional system as a probation officer, thus responsible for supervising these people while on probation (yes, in Canada, these types of offenses get probation, and are sometimes proceeded by a short term of imprisonment, which can often be served in the community, thus under my supervision), I can tell you that regardless of the nature of the offense, the vast majority of the time (unless it’s a cultural thing with immigrants where such behaviour is deemed permissible) severe mental illness is still involved. We were forbidden from ever saying that an offender would never re-offend. At best, and only if the person based on professional risk evaluations was classified as “low risk” at the time their sentence expired, we were permitted to say they were " a low risk to re-offend".

We are required to be prudent when making decisions and we know past behaviour predicts future behaviour pretty accurately. Given the amount of damage the victims of these offenses go through, the risk isn’t worth it. Maybe you’ve never had to speak to the victims or their families of sexual assault or pedophilia, but I have. It’s a very difficult thing to do.

Far be it from me to condemn these people (Given the prevalence of severe mental illness in many of these offenses, I would strongly question if there even was all three conditions met for it to be a mortal sin) but there is temporal punishment due to sin, and this is one of them.

Thank you so much for the detailed information. I was actually sexually abused as a child so I know of some of the damage sexual abuse causes. I cannot imagine having to be in your position to have to confront families whose kids were sexually abused on a regular basis or at least in a crisis or first time situation. Have you had to do that before? This is probably similar to the effect of someone losing a family member in war.

What temporal punishment are you referring to, not being able to be a religious or Priest?

 

[GodHeals]

This isn’t something that can be “healed” like a broken leg. It’s something that has to be managed. I have anxiety. I will always have anxiety, but I had to learn how to manage it. That doesn’t mean I have been cured of anxiety and will never have another anxiety attack. That means I have to be aware of what triggers my anxiety attacks and know what to do to either ward them off, or minimize them. I still have flare ups of anxiety, and I always will. They’ve just been significantly reduced and are more manageable. This is my cross to bear and to suffer.

These people can still function in the world. For those who aren’t already married, they are likely called to live in the single state in a life of celibacy for the kingdom of God, and to live a life of service to the Church in a matter that is appropriate to them. They are still capable of living a life a prayer, penance, and sacrifice. They can still volunteer in areas that don’t put them at risk.

The best thing to do is to is to treat them as human beings worth dignity and respect, while at the same time being prudent and using discretion when dealing with them. For example, those who have small children and are convicted of pedophilia, and the wife decides to not to separate, she has to use prudence in never leaving leaving the children alone with the father. It’s also important that parish communities respect the person’s right to privacy (even if it is public knowledge) and not going around gossiping about so-and-so being whatever. That said, prudence and discretion must be used if you see so-and-so with Little Johnny or Little Suzy.

Thank you for sharing!

 

[GodHeals]

We must always remember several things about Canon Law.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Thank you, Brother, for the teaching on Canon Law and everything else. God Bless You! Brian

 

[Elizabeth779]

If the conviceted sex offender has to register, the local police department, sheriff, state law, etc., will have rules about what kind of contact the offender can have with others (depending on their offense). There are other ways to serve?

 

[GodHeals]

If the conviceted sex offender has to register, the local police department, sheriff, state law, etc., will have rules about what kind of contact the offender can have with others (depending on their offense). There are other ways to serve?

Hi Elizabeth,

After reading through this thread, it seems there is a lot to think about regarding the matter.

I liked what the Brother said about it not being a right (a vocational option) to be a Religious or Priest, but a calling, a vocation.

It’s important that we remember that being a deacon, priest, bishop, brother or sister is not a vocational option. It’s an invitation to a very select group of people. It’s an invitation from Christ and an invitation that we do not deserve and to which we have no right. Those of us who have been invited to Holy Orders and to the consecrated life have no idea why me. Christ called. I had the option to say yes or no. I did not wake up one morning and make a choice to be a consecrated religious. That idea was put there by God. Think about it this way. God is not an equal opportunity employer.

It seems that it is sometimes difficult for people to discern their calling in life and this might be even harder for ex-sex offenders being that they may be registered, desiring to be a Religious or Priest or not.

Hopefully, this thread helps shed light on the topic of ex-sex offenders who believe their calling is to become a Religious or a Priest after their conversion of heart. I believe if God calls us into doing something for Him, He will open the door no matter the task.

God Bless You!
Brian

 

[Cider]

If God can convert great sinners, why not these men? Who is to say if they have proven their loyalty after years of practicing virtuous purity that they cannot be priests or religious?
Be charitable of will, but prudent!

God Bless You!

But how do you know if they have been practicing virtuous purity? Not getting caught, does not mean they haven’t committed further crimes. I don’t think there is a way to be 100% sure and it’s not worth the risk IMO.

 

[x1980x]

How do you define an ex-sex offender? Someone who has not been caught lately?
…

Are there priests or monastics who are ex-heretics, ex-thieves, ex-drunkards, or ex-fornicators with adults who had repented and asked God for forgiveness?

1 Corinthians 6 9-11 (Douay)
Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers:
Nor the effeminate nor liers with mankind nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God.
*And such some of you were. But you are washed: but you are sanctified: but you are justified: in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God. *
(emphasis mine)

Paul the apostle was a ruthless persecutor of Christians in the day. Would the CC today ordain an apparently contrite ex-Muslim terrorist who had killed hundreds of Jews and Christians but had repented?

 

[Corvus_Corax]

Apparently, yes, he can.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/06/ns-macdonald-convictions.html

 

[GodHeals]

Apparently, yes, he can.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/06/ns-macdonald-convictions.html

What are you thoughts about this article?

It seems to have happened prior to his entering the Priesthood, but it probably wasn’t on record. I wonder if he has been truly healed or if he still struggles with a lot of sexual temptations. It seems the parish counsel and families trust him enough to allow him to be around children! I also wonder if he has sexually abused other kids than the two mentioned, whether he was caught or not caught. I don’t know if I could trust him around my kids (if i had any). I guess I would really need to know him personally.

 

[wanabesaint]

To stop a second, the fault of human nature to “attack” children in the sexual nature has always been an issue in history, the Jewish werent like, devoid nor are they today,no sect or group is. Today, in many senses, a recognition has to be made that the Issue came to be a way to make some fast money with lawyers in the explotation of explotation.
the community of churchs found itself, paying out endulgances for the offenses of the people that are not the actual church, but the other churchs has wealth that could be, seized, as its a good word for the issue, Inuldgences.

theirs a huge double standard here, in that, in all reality, some money was to be made, because some wealth existed that could be, seized.

Now, its interesting that this issue of SEX, came to be a profit mecca and people came to essentially bring a zero tollerance to the issue, great,

But, yet today, we can find people that want to KILL others, in the Spriitual sense, by their ignorance, lets call it bulling/alienation of Children, essentially Murder of the spirit of Children, and in recognizing this attrocity, which alway has happened and will,
People who should stand against this, will say, OH, their is nothing we can do…their is no proof…

To think this through, the lawyers saw a way to legislate moralitiy, by asking for indulgences. Yet the protestant community churchs have argued that Indulgences were bad, should not be. and we know they arent free of the sex issue, just they dont often have money to pay the indulgences, so they arent pursued by those that can profit or gain from, that is fact .

as a controversal concept, to get you fired up, the church should extercise its right of seperation of church and state. and to if a person of the church is accused of doing wrong, they should be tied to a tree, and anybody that wants to, cast the first stone, or whip, can…rather than seeking indulgences for sin.
and to that, we can then also tie a few people to a tree that want to Kill the soul/spirit of children. and then we can get back to recognition of, alienation cant be reasoned away, but it must be healed.

can an ex sex offender become a Priest, Sure, but if they ever come to touch a child, to teach that child the sin of molesting others by their actions,the child has now an 80% chance of doing the same to others, , they will then be tied to a tree and scourged…
and now your saying, that is barbaric, but then in reality, Hell is what the priest has chosen for themselves, and eternal damnation is to be an eternity of being tied to the tree, but with that ever consuming fire deal…

What is failing to be recognized, is the killing of a childs soul, by bullying/turning away from God, aleination, all will call for an eternal damnation to hell, being tied to the tree will be a eternal acceptance, and that says its wrong and should not happen.

teaching child by the action of doing wrong to them is barbaric, and it should be recognized that all actions, not only molestation, but bullying, turning away from God, alienation are all equally wrong and should not be tollerated, for it calls for our being on the path to hell. all issue need credit, not just one, and for that, we all need to be called to a standard, not just priests, but all that we are vigiliant to the children in all ways, to set an example for them to follow by our actions to them nd to recognize, setting an wrong example is the mortal of mortal sin.

and to that, is the recognition of voting for obamanation was a mortal sin for all christians, for he calls for the mutilation and murder of children, worse than molestation, and people were ignorant enough to vote for the animal, amazing, now you know.

their is only one reason to fight a war, for peace, that our children dont have to figih the war. and if somebody is molesting the children, that is a call for war, that their children dont have to fight the war also, a war that says, that will not come to be, but peace.

touch the children, you will pay, and we dont mean money, and that includes, alienaton of them as well.

 

[GodHeals]

their is only one reason to fight a war, for peace, that our children dont have to figih the war. and if somebody is molesting the children, that is a call for war, that their children dont have to fight the war also, a war that says, that will not come to be, but peace.

touch the children, you will pay, and we dont mean money, and that includes, alienaton of them as well.

So you believe that there is healing from childhood sexual abuse, but it is a healing that takes place apart from children? Therefore, Priests and Religious should not be ex-sex offenders? That is what I think you are saying.

Interesting point you made; war is fought so there is peace and that war includes fighting for children so that they don’t have to go through the consequences of child sexual abuse or have to fight the war of sexual abuse for their children in the future. It makes sense that child sexual abuse has to stop somewhere. It is definitely not an easy war to fight on so many levels; emotional, psychological, spiritual, physical… and in the court systems.