Can baptized Catholics go to hell?

[Gorgias]

I have faith.

Faith is absolutely good!

The question, though, is what you have faith in.

There’s a particular paraphrase of St Augustine that goes something like this: “if you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, then it is not the gospel in which you believe, but yourself.”

 

[QwertyGirl]

St Augustine had some unusual ideas, as far as I’m concerned.

I have faith that God loves me. It is based on nothing other than that is what I choose to believe.

 

[Gorgias]

St Augustine had some unusual ideas, as far as I’m concerned.

Yeah, he certainly did! Don’t get me started…

But, this isn’t a teaching on faith or morals – it’s an observation. And a pretty insightful one, I’d say.

 

[kill051]

**

I read in a book by Peter Kreeft that hell’s fire is actually God’s love but people who hate God’s love cannot stand it so it is torture for them?

The first place I encountered this idea was in the writings of John Henry Newman, who posited exactly this: the light of God’s love and the fires of Hell are one and the same. The blessed saints experience it as all-embracing, comforting warmth, while the damned, rejecting as they have God and His love for them, are tortured beyond endurance by it. While it is not exactly Church teaching(as far as I know), it is an interesting concept and seems to hold water, logically speaking.**

 

[wkj_123]

So, the Founders of the USA didn’t write a Constitution or Declaration of Independence for us?

Of course they did. I don’t dispute that the books of the Bible were written for people. My point is I personally know Thomas Jefferson as well as I know Jesus. I don’t know eithier because neither is around to meet.

Are you suggesting that the only way God could reveal Himself is to do it over and over again, in each generation?

Yes of course I am. You literally think that an omniscient God couldn’t pull that off? But of course silly me clearly a book written by people who saw things is the most reliable way to spread the most important message in the history of mankind.

Not traditions, mind you – but direct revelation. If a co-worker tells you “hey, the boss says we need to clean up the kitchen”, isn’t this evidence of his intent for you to do something?

I love that analogy let’s make it more realistic. I’m a worker and I have about 3,000 co-workers all telling me conflicting orders from a boss I never met. Now all these co-workers have memos written from the boss saying listen to them or I will suffer the consequences. You see the whole issue is God’s not the author of confusion apparently, but you and I both know he is perfectly capable of ACTUALLY revealing himself to every single person but instead knowing full well other religions would pop up chose to remain unseen by 99.9999% of every human being on the face of the Earth.

 

[Gorgias]

My point is I personally know Thomas Jefferson as well as I know Jesus. I don’t know eithier because neither is around to meet.

We encounter Jesus each week at Mass in the Eucharist. We encounter Him in His Spirit. Each are direct encounters. (Neither are ‘revelation’, properly speaking, but they are direct encounters.)

Yes of course I am. You literally think that an omniscient God couldn’t pull that off?

The question isn’t “can He pull that off?” but rather “why should he?” I mean… why do it your way? Why not be OK with the way He intended to do it?

But of course silly me clearly a book written by people who saw things is the most reliable way to spread the most important message in the history of mankind.

No: through his Holy Spirit and the Church which He instituted is the way to do it… and that’s what we’ve got.

But, your approach is rather limited: it makes the claim that unless you personally witnessed it, you cannot believe it happened. Not a reasonable approach.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Mtdobbs:

In Roman Catholic moral theology, a mortal sin requires that ALL of the following conditions are met:

Its subject matter must be grave.

It must be committed with full knowledge (and awareness) of the sinful action and the gravity of the offense.

It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent.

who would have trouble meeting those conditions?

people who don’t possess full mental capacity. They have a major deficit in reasoning and intellect ability. So they have problems meeting those conditions.

That said, there are ALSO people with none of THOSE mental deficits, who will play games with one or more of the conditions to reduce their own culpability by thinking they reduce their wrong to a misdemeanor or no fault at all by convincing themselves they didn’t really “know”, or they didn’t give “full consent” etc etc etc. …

well they can fool others as much as they want but they cant fool themselves and of course, God, who sees right through that

True. One could say they only fool the fools.

 

[joyful]

**

I read in a book by Peter Kreeft that hell’s fire is actually God’s love but people who hate God’s love cannot stand it so it is torture for them?

The first place I encountered this idea was in the writings of John Henry Newman, who posited exactly this: the light of God’s love and the fires of Hell are one and the same. The blessed saints experience it as all-embracing, comforting warmth, while the damned, rejecting as they have God and His love for them, are tortured beyond endurance by it. While it is not exactly Church teaching(as far as I know), it is an interesting concept and seems to hold water, logically speaking.**

Well they are both Catholics. A lot of apologetics openly acknowledge however that eye has not seen, ear has not heard what God has ready for those who love Him. A lot of it is guesswork for us on Earth

 

[intjhatesyou]

Didn’t the entire idea of Putgatory get thrown out by the Catholic Church recently?

 

[angel12]

Didn’t the entire idea of Putgatory get thrown out by the Catholic Church recently?

No. Where did you get that idea?

 

[Fauken]

Welcone to CAF! I think you may be mistaking purgatory with limbo, and while limbo has not been taught as doctrine, it has not been rejected either.

 

[gcshapero]

Yes, Catholics can go to Hell and many do sadly.

St. Teresa of Avila recounted when Jesus showed her a vision of Hell, she could tell who the priests were – their hands were on fire because of them being consecrated.

Jesus even showed her her place in Hell for her lukewarmness. As Catholics we shouldn’t get comfortable. We’ve got a battle to fight.

 

[Socrates92]

Hmm, are all jocuse lies really lies in the true sense, or just in the analogical sense? A lie requires an intent to deceive. I can think of many instances where I told an untruth in jest, but my real meaning was clearly understood. I also understood that the truth would be clearly understood.
Therefore no intent to deceive.

 

[joyful]

Welcone to CAF! I think you may be mistaking purgatory with limbo, and while limbo has not been taught as doctrine, it has not been rejected either.

limbo? like that stick people do that dance under at tacky parties?

 

[joyful]

Yes, Catholics can go to Hell and many do sadly.

St. Teresa of Avila recounted when Jesus showed her a vision of Hell, she could tell who the priests were – their hands were on fire because of them being consecrated.

Jesus even showed her her place in Hell for her lukewarmness. As Catholics we shouldn’t get comfortable. We’ve got a battle to fight.

why were those priests in hell???

 

[Fauken]

limbo? like that stick people do that dance under at tacky parties?

Unrelated, but yes. It’s a theorized place where the souls of un-baptized babies and “righteous pagans” (those who lived good lives but never heard about Christ). It is not painful, it’s quite nice, but it is not heaven.

why were those priests in hell???

Like any soul that is in Hell, because of unrepented mortal sin.

 

[joyful]

[/quote]

Like any soul that is in Hell, because of unrepented mortal sin.
[/quote]

does saying the act of contrition count or are we expected to find a priest and do the whole confession sacrament

 

[Fauken]

does saying the act of contrition count or are we expected to find a priest and do the whole confession sacrament

It would need to be a perfect act of contrition to remit any sin, but either way, you really ought to go to confession, because with confession you are certain that your sins are forgiven, as even an imperfect act of contrition would suffice.

When I say perfect, I don’t mean that you say every word in the act correctly, but that you repent of your sins not out of fear or duty, but purely out of love for God.

 

[joyful]

A bit off topic, but how does the Catholic Church support confessing sins with a priest instead of in silence in prayer before God/Eucharistic adoration?

 

[joyful]

By these responses it seems like a MOST people would go to hell. Out of the people who believe in God, are Christian, are Catholic(small percent of Christians), actually go to confession regularly(very small percent of Catholics), and do it often enough that they manage to get that last confession in before they kick the bucket.