B
buffalo
Guest
Because that is what a Catholic school does.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
buffalo,
When Christ began His Church, did He say “go build schools to teach His faith,” or did He mandate us to go forth and evalgelize the world? As I said, I do not want to see Catholic Churches close, yet the schools are a different matter…you are making them the same and they are not.
When Christ began His Church, did He say “go build schools to teach His faith,” or did He mandate us to go forth and evalgelize the world? As I said, I do not want to see Catholic Churches close, yet the schools are a different matter…you are making them the same and they are not.
B
buffalo
Guest
“go build schools to teach His faith,” is a very effective way to evangelize.
Let me come at it this way - I don’t believe that affordability is the problem. It is much deeper and that is why the schools are abandoned by the parents. Let me suggest that poor Cathechesis of parents in the past 40 years has resulted in these same parents abdicating their role as first teachers of the faith. Now where did many get this Cathechesis?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
When Christ began his Chuch, he didn’t give us an Operator’s Manual – he left it to us to work out how to carry out His mandate.
Catholic schools have proven successful not only in spreading His message, but it carrying out other missions he gave us – as in caring for the poor.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
vern,
I agree completely (post #24). Christ did not give a manual. My point, as you well know, is threefold:
(1) We must (not an option) feed, clothe and care for the poor. The Church continues to do this at rate that is higher than any other entity on earth. It can get better, all Catholics can give more and can love more.
(2) Catholic schools were never intended for non-Catholics. If a non-catholic attends, all the better for the kingdom, no doubt there. Yet, there mission was never to educate non-catholics. The basic idea here is to take Catholic children and make them more Catholic…to truly teach them the faith in the center of their lives.
(3) The Church MUST continue to preach the word to all corners of the globe, including American neighborhoods that have only a few Catholics…yet that does not mean they have to pay for a highly underused school in those same areas.
I agree completely (post #24). Christ did not give a manual. My point, as you well know, is threefold:
(1) We must (not an option) feed, clothe and care for the poor. The Church continues to do this at rate that is higher than any other entity on earth. It can get better, all Catholics can give more and can love more.
(2) Catholic schools were never intended for non-Catholics. If a non-catholic attends, all the better for the kingdom, no doubt there. Yet, there mission was never to educate non-catholics. The basic idea here is to take Catholic children and make them more Catholic…to truly teach them the faith in the center of their lives.
(3) The Church MUST continue to preach the word to all corners of the globe, including American neighborhoods that have only a few Catholics…yet that does not mean they have to pay for a highly underused school in those same areas.
B
buffalo
Guest
“go build schools to teach His faith,” is a very effective way to evangelize.
Let me come at it this way - I don’t believe that affordability is the problem. It is much deeper and that is why the schools are abandoned by the parents. Let me suggest that poor Cathechesis of parents in the past 40 years has resulted in these same parents abdicating their role as first teachers of the faith. Now where did many get this Cathechesis?
T
TPJCatholic
Guest
buffalo,
One of the problems with the schools, imo, is the lack of obedience by Catholic parents to actually adhere to the teachings of the Church. If parents had 5-10 kids like they used to, then we would not have a vocations problem. Similarly, if Bishops and Priests had rejected the culture over the last 30-40 years, then parents would have been taught to adore life.
Yet, these are problems that go really deep and it will take 10-20 years for us to see a turn-around, which imo has begun. In the meantime, most dioceses simply cannot afford to keep schools open with attendances that drop to 50 kids or less.
One of the problems with the schools, imo, is the lack of obedience by Catholic parents to actually adhere to the teachings of the Church. If parents had 5-10 kids like they used to, then we would not have a vocations problem. Similarly, if Bishops and Priests had rejected the culture over the last 30-40 years, then parents would have been taught to adore life.
Yet, these are problems that go really deep and it will take 10-20 years for us to see a turn-around, which imo has begun. In the meantime, most dioceses simply cannot afford to keep schools open with attendances that drop to 50 kids or less.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
buffalo said:
I keep feeling we are in a death spiral – we close schools because we don’t have strong Catholic families and enough religious. We don’t have strong Catholic families and enough religious because we close schools.
But beyond that, we have a mission to the poor. And the best way to help the poor is to educate the children.
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buffalo
Guest
They drop to 50 kids because they reach a critical mass of failure. Why? Because the tuition is too high, poor Cathechesis, lack of parish support (they do not see positive benefits), apathy of parents faith and the competition does not have a tuition and has a pool, sports and technology.
B
buffalo
Guest
vern humphrey:
Vern, I agree with you. That is why the dioceses need to take the lead and keep them open by marketing their necessity and value to the people. I think if this happens you can reverse the spiral.
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tom.wineman
Guest
With what they charge for tuition here in
Tampa Bay who can afford to send their kids
**to them. And then there is the matter of **
transportation.
There are too many small one priest parishes
here that drain the resources from the parishes
that are trying to run schools.
Tampa Bay who can afford to send their kids
**to them. And then there is the matter of **
transportation.
There are too many small one priest parishes
here that drain the resources from the parishes
that are trying to run schools.
T
TPJCatholic
Guest
buffalo,
Not true. In nearly all cases the Catholic population has moved to the suburbs. I live in the Chicago area, my childhood school closed during a recent scaleback by Cardinal George. Trust me, Cardinal George is an awesome servant of Christ, he does not relish closing schools or churches, yet when face with a severe dwindling of the local Catholic population, he was faced with no choice. Now, on the other side, most suburban Catholic schools in the Chicago area either holding their own, or are strongly flourishing…the reason why is the Catholic population lives there.
Not true. In nearly all cases the Catholic population has moved to the suburbs. I live in the Chicago area, my childhood school closed during a recent scaleback by Cardinal George. Trust me, Cardinal George is an awesome servant of Christ, he does not relish closing schools or churches, yet when face with a severe dwindling of the local Catholic population, he was faced with no choice. Now, on the other side, most suburban Catholic schools in the Chicago area either holding their own, or are strongly flourishing…the reason why is the Catholic population lives there.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
What we need is for Bishops and Priests to start strongly preaching the faith from the pulpit again…teach sin, teach about the need for confession, teach about the requirement of following all of the teachings of the faith, teach about the need for large families and vocations…if they do that, the Church will be healed. If they do not do it, then we will see the Church reduce.
The schools overall health walks in direct proportion to the health of the Church.
The schools overall health walks in direct proportion to the health of the Church.
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buffalo
Guest
If the inner city does not have the population to support a school then I agree it has to close just like a parish. That much is obvious.
In the suburban Chicago schools you referred to what is the average tuition? Who is supporting these schools? Are there schools closing or consolidating in the suburbs?
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TPJCatholic
Guest
buffalo,
I have one of my sons in a Catholic school, we pay $3400 a year. The tuition ranges from $1800-$4000. I think there was a couple suburban schools that are closing, most are supported by parish Catholics, and most are doing well, some are flourishing and have waiting lists.
I have one of my sons in a Catholic school, we pay $3400 a year. The tuition ranges from $1800-$4000. I think there was a couple suburban schools that are closing, most are supported by parish Catholics, and most are doing well, some are flourishing and have waiting lists.
B
buffalo
Guest
This was one of the points of my earlier posts about the cost of tuition and for many it is a barrier (there are other threads on this very issue) to sending them to a Catholic School. Imagine if tuitions were eliminated the expanded evangelizaton that could take place. If you can vision it you can achieve it.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
buffalo,
I agree completely. Yet, here is the point to consider:
In the 50’s and 60s’ tuition was incredibly low and sometimes free for large families. The reason it was so low is that many parishes had 6 Priests and many Nuns assigned to the parish. Those Priests and Nuns were the teachers in the schools–in those days lay teachers were a rare and unique sight. Because of that, lay salaries were not an issue so tuition costs were incredibly low (my lower middle class parents managed to place 7 children of 10 in those schools).
Today, that situation is reversed, each parish has maybe 1-2 Priest and typically no Nuns…nearly all teachers are lay Catholics and they need to be paid.
That is why I am saying we need to get back to having very large families, with a deep encouragement of vocations.
I agree completely. Yet, here is the point to consider:
In the 50’s and 60s’ tuition was incredibly low and sometimes free for large families. The reason it was so low is that many parishes had 6 Priests and many Nuns assigned to the parish. Those Priests and Nuns were the teachers in the schools–in those days lay teachers were a rare and unique sight. Because of that, lay salaries were not an issue so tuition costs were incredibly low (my lower middle class parents managed to place 7 children of 10 in those schools).
Today, that situation is reversed, each parish has maybe 1-2 Priest and typically no Nuns…nearly all teachers are lay Catholics and they need to be paid.
That is why I am saying we need to get back to having very large families, with a deep encouragement of vocations.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I disagree. If the inner city does not have the population to support a school, then we must reach out to the poor minorities, REGARDLESS of their religion, and offer then a quality alternative to the failed public schools. And we must support it with the whole Church, not just the parish.
We have climbed out of the slums, and we have no right to pull up the ladder after us.
In Arkansas, we spend an average of $6,200 a pupil annually in the public schools. Our Catholic schools spend about $3,800 per pupil and are much better. If we were to apply economies of scale and scope, we could do even better.
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buffalo
Guest
vern humphrey:
Vern. I didn’t articulate my whole thought well. I agree with you. I was referring to areas where one parish and school will suffice others could be closed.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
My point is we must see the Catholic school as something more than an exclusive Catholic club. Instead of consolidating schools, expand them. Go out and GET children to fill the seats.
There are plenty of non-Catholic poor whom the public schools have failed – we are called to their aid.
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