Can catholics harbour hatred for Satan?

[Rutherford2]

As you know, we as catholics should forgive our enemies. But what if your enemy is Satan? Should we forgive him?

 

[anna]

We hate what He stands for, what he does. He being pure evil and if we hate evil, then we hate him. We ask St. Michael the Archangel to cast him into hell, by the power of God, for he prowls around the world seeking the ruin of souls, Satan is an eternal enemy, he will never change Pray the prayer to St.Michael it is a powerful prayer God bless

 

[CRM_Brother]

We must be careful. We hate what he does but he is still a creation of God. Hate, in any form, for any creature can fester and effect other areas of our life.

Personally, I don’t hate Satan. I hate his work, but I don’t hate him as an individual. His choice to oppose God’s will invokes a deep sadness within me, that one of the most beautiful of the angels, he who was destined to bring light to the world (Lucifer) so adamantly opposed his Creator. I liken it to a child throwing a destructive tantrum. You hate that he destroys everything in his path and attempt to halt any damage that he does, but you don’t necessarily hate the child.

Forgiveness, however, is a different topic. He has made his choice and revels in it. Angels do not have the continuous free will that we do. They simply decide at their creation to follow God’s will or not. Satan decided to rebel. Forgiveness implies repentance. He will never repent. He no longer has the opportunity. Thus, we cannot forgive him.

 

[esieffe]

Great topic. I have often wondered about this. Great answers as well. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[anon91549587]

He is of pure intellect therefore his decision to rebel was deliberate and concrete. Nothing can be done to reverse this.

 

[Rutherford2]

Thus, we cannot forgive him.

If we cannot forgive him doesn’t it means the same as we hate him?

 

[OneSheep]

We hate what he does but he is still a creation of God. Hate, in any form, for any creature can fester and effect other areas of our life.

This is a good discipline, to pay attention and be watchful when we hate. The antidote for hate is forgiveness.

Forgiveness, however, is a different topic. He has made his choice and revels in it. Angels do not have the continuous free will that we do. They simply decide at their creation to follow God’s will or not. Satan decided to rebel. Forgiveness implies repentance. He will never repent. He no longer has the opportunity. Thus, we cannot forgive him.

Do you find it difficult, as we all do, to forgive people who do not repent?

If we only forgive those who repent, then are we trapped in the hatred that “can fester and effect other areas of our life.”?

 

[CRM_Brother]

No.

Hate is a personal rejection of the goodness of God’s creation in the one whom we hate. In this world, we can only come to forgive those who sin is against us. As a purely spiritual being, Satan rebels primarily against God. Satan’s actions on earth are only consequences of that. Only He who created Satan may grant him forgiveness.

To put it in perspective, if someone robs a store. One of the witnesses cannot forgive the sin of the thief against the owner of the store, only the owner can forgive.

We can say that we forgive Satan but ultimately the words are empty as it is not against us whom Satan is ultimately sinning against.

The only use for forgiveness of Satan would be as a form of personal healing from hatred aimed against the angel.

 

[Aquinas11]

Personally, I don’t hate Satan. I hate his work, but I don’t hate him as an individual. His choice to oppose God’s will invokes a deep sadness within me, that one of the most beautiful of the angels, he who was destined to bring light to the world (Lucifer) so adamantly opposed his Creator. I liken it to a child throwing a destructive tantrum. You hate that he destroys everything in his path and attempt to halt any damage that he does, but you don’t necessarily hate the child.

Yes or like a doctor who doesn’t hate his patient, but hates the cancer that is killing his patient.

 

[CRM_Brother]

Do you find it difficult, as we all do, to forgive people who do not repent?

If we only forgive those who repent, then are we trapped in the hatred that “can fester and effect other areas of our life.”?

Personal forgiveness does not absolve sins. Only God can do that. As such, personal forgiveness addresses our own inadequacies. Personal forgiveness confronts our own ill will or hatred, our negative reactions, against someone who has sinned against us. It is not for the other person’s benefit (unless they come seeking forgiveness in repentance) but our own.

I do find it hard many times to forgive people who do not repent but I force myself to address those issues which are only within my purview to forgive. If it is a sin against another, I must force myself to not allow myself to be affected by it. To do so would be a form of spiritual gossip. (This is not to say that you cannot work against the sin itself. This is only within the context of the person committing the sin.) Personal forgiveness is an antidote to personal hatred. If there is no hatred in the first place, there is nothing to forgive on a personal level unless it is for the consolation of one who is seeking forgiveness.

I think I must correct the last sentence in my original post. It was a little bit of a jump.

“We cannot forgive Satan.”’

It should be:

“Satan cannot be forgiven. He would accept no forgiveness even if God would offer it to him. Thus for us to forgive him would be skewing and distorting the reality of the situation.”

 

[OneSheep]

Personal forgiveness does not absolve sins. Only God can do that. As such, personal forgiveness addresses our own inadequacies. Personal forgiveness confronts our own ill will or hatred, our negative reactions, against someone who has sinned against us. It is not for the other person’s benefit (unless they come seeking forgiveness in repentance) but our own.

True, but I do feel better when someone has forgiven me for something I have done wrong. Is this your experience also?

I do find it hard many times to forgive people who do not repent but I force myself to address those issues which are only within my purview to forgive. If it is a sin against another, I must force myself to not allow myself to be affected by it.

Hmmm. Are you pushing away empathy? Isn’t that sort of “throwing the baby out with the bath water”?

To do so would be a form of spiritual gossip.

If I am angry at whomever hurt my friend Sam, that is “spiritual gossip”?

Personal forgiveness is an antidote to personal hatred

We are to forgive anyone we “hold something against”, right? If I hold something against a politician, I am called to forgive, correct?

“We cannot forgive Satan.”’

It should be:

“Satan cannot be forgiven. He would accept no forgiveness even if God would offer it to him. Thus for us to forgive him would be skewing and distorting the reality of the situation.”

Perhaps.

However, if a deeper forgiveness involves understanding, can we come understand satan’s works?

 

[CRM_Brother]

True, but I do feel better when someone has forgiven me for something I have done wrong. Is this your experience also?

Yes. I added an edit to the post answering addressing this topic. It may have only been updated after you began the reply.

If there is no hatred in the first place, there is nothing to forgive on a personal level unless it is for the consolation of one who is seeking forgiveness.

Forgiveness can be give for the consolation of the repentant sinner.

Hmmm. Are you pushing away empathy? Isn’t that sort of “throwing the baby out with the bath water”?

I wasn’t speaking of being affected by the sin itself, but rather allowing that sin against someone else to cause me to judge the sinner. You can empathize with your hurt friend Sam, but you must not allow that empathy to cause you to judge.

“There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save or to destroy. Who then are you to judge your neighbor?” (James 4:12)

If I am angry at whomever hurt my friend Sam, that is “spiritual gossip”?

Yes. Pope Francis once called gossip “terrorism”. You hurl a bomb at that person’s reputation without them being able to defend themselves. Even in your own mind, you can tear down someone’s spiritual dignity and do spiritual violence towards them.

“Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun set on your anger, and do not leave room for the devil.”
(Ephesians 4:26-27)

You can be angry at the event, at the sin, but to let that anger persist against the person is to enter into venial sin as you are doing violence against them in your heart. At worst, it can color your actions toward that person and lead you to commit a mortal sin against them.

 

[CRM_Brother]

We are to forgive anyone we “hold something against”, right? If I hold something against a politician, I am called to forgive, correct?

If that politician does something against you directly, yes. We must remember, however, that no forgiveness is actually being granted and that it is purely aimed at purifying your own intentions.

If the anger is, instead, aimed at a political view or action which is not necessarily against you. You can hate the political view itself (I myself hate a number of popular political views) but if there is a sin there, it is not yours to forgive. For example, only those immigrants who are unjustly excluded from immigrating to the United States may forgive the politician who campaigned for their exclusion and only the mothers who were taken advantage of by abortion providers and the children who survived the abortion may forgive those lawmakers who campaigned for abortion’s legalization and promotion. We can hate the political views, but they are not our to forgive.

However, if a deeper forgiveness involves understanding, can we come understand satan’s works?

Our understanding of Satan’s works really stops at mankind’s history of encounters with Satan. Unless a mystic is granted private revelation, our understanding can only be derived through the temporal and physical context of our senses. We can’t truly pierce Satan’s works with understanding. The action of the rebellion takes place outside of the world we know. As such, it is outside of our understanding.

Put it this way. Satan comprehended God in such a way which exceeds our own knowledge of Him to an incomprehensible limit. Even with that experience of God which we can only hope to attain in the Beatific Vision, he still rejected the one true God. Why? I’ve got no clue and baring a mystical private revelation on the topic, I know I will never understand.

 

[Socrates92]

I’m going to take the apparent minority opinion here and say Yes, it is absolutely justified to hate Satan, not only in what he does, but in his actual person, and that this is actually beneficially spiritually with no inherent negative effects (aside from any circumstantial psychological ill effects an individual might have). As long as one doesn’t fixate on it, hatred of Satan is a perfectly rightly ordered thing, as he is the definition of utter depravity. It can also be a powerful motivator to do everything possible to thwart his efforts in one’s personal life. It may be inferior to love of God as a motivation, but I think it has its place.

Actually, this applies to all the demons. With pure spirits, you can’t really separate them from their will. They essentially are their actions. To say that you hate their actions, but don’t hate them, is disingenuous in my opinion.

There is nothing in hatred of Satan that detracts from God’s glory, or being a rightly ordered person. Hatred is the wishing of harm on another. God has already decreed that Satan suffer the worst possible torments of Hell, more so than any other fallen angel or damned soul. There is no harm that you can wish on him which is greater. Therefore I’d argue that hatred of Satan is a way to align one’s will with that of God, and to neglect it would actually be disordered. Ie: Hatred of Satan is a virtue.

There, someone refute me if I’ve said anything heretical. (I might not respond until Friday, though.)

 

[OneSheep]

Forgiveness can be give for the consolation of the repentant sinner.

Yes, I agree, and the ultimate aim is reconciliation, right?

I wasn’t speaking of being affected by the sin itself, but rather allowing that sin against someone else to cause me to judge the sinner. You can empathize with your hurt friend Sam, but you must not allow that empathy to cause you to judge.

Are you saying that empathy causes judging? Isn’t our judging simply a triggered response, caused by our own conscience? Someone does something unconscionable, and I have a gut-level reaction. I don’t really think “I should judge that person”, do you? It just happens, right?

“There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save or to destroy. Who then are you to judge your neighbor?” (James 4:12)

The best I have been able to do is to realize when I have judged, then work toward understanding and forgiveness. Jesus asked us not to judge, but He was certainly a realist. He spent a lot more breath talking about forgiveness, and if we aren’t judging, when is forgiveness even applicable?

Yes. Pope Francis once called gossip “terrorism”. You hurl a bomb at that person’s reputation without them being able to defend themselves.

Got it. But I don’t see how Pope Francis’ words show that being angry at someone is “spiritual gossip”. The “bomb” part is definitely applicable, when someone is actually saying something against another’s reputation.

Even in your own mind, you can tear down someone’s spiritual dignity and do spiritual violence towards them.

True, but I don’t see the “gossip” unless someone is “bombing”. I think the anger has more effect on the person being angry than to the person the anger is directed. I think you agree?

If that politician does something against you directly, yes.

Hmmm. Where did you get this? If a person holds something against a politician, are they to simply hang onto the grudge?

#Mark 11:25 New International Version (NIV)

25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

I don’t get the “directly” part. Where does it come from?

 

[OneSheep]

Our understanding of Satan’s works really stops at mankind’s history of encounters with Satan. Unless a mystic is granted private revelation, our understanding can only be derived through the temporal and physical context of our senses. We can’t truly pierce Satan’s works with understanding.

Well, in my experience we can understand. Can you give me an example of something we can’t understand? I’m talking about what happens in the world, mainly.

 

[Seagull]

I wonder if God - forgives Satan - they do talk with one another - Book of Job says that.
I have a few serious enemies - that I have compassion for - that’s as far as it goes.
On occasions - a hatred flares up - like a form of rebuke -
But we MUST be on guard - he’s a roaring lion - etc - a murderer from the beginning -
A tempter, deceiver and an expert liar -
He’s thee most dangerous and deadly entity - we will ever alive encounter.
Satan even tried to convince Jesus to kill himself - jumping -
" your angels will bare you up in their hands "

 

[Rutherford2]

I see. What if I just be on guard and foil satan’s plan while letting God just do whatever He wants to him? Sounds like a good plan? This way we wont harbour hatred towards anybody, even satan.

 

[CRM_Brother]

Yes, I agree, and the ultimate aim is reconciliation, right?

Reconciliation, yes. However reconciliation has a slightly different context than forgiveness. Reconciliation is between two people. It is inherently social. Forgiveness is of an action done against someone. You personally forgive an action done against you. The only time when forgiveness itself is extended to another person is when the knowledge of that forgiveness of an action consoles the one who committed the action.

The sin, the impediment between the two, is forgiven by the one wronged. Only then reconciliation comes about.

Are you saying that empathy causes judging?

No. Empathy is purely an emotional understanding of someone wronged. It has nothing to do with the one who wronged the person (or at least, shouldn’t). Judgement is, in no part, a result of our conscience. Judgement is purely the result of concupiscence. It is taking on the mantle of God and labeling a person as ‘bad’, ‘unworthy’, ‘condemned’ etc. If someone does something horrible, the gut-level reaction is a response to the action, not the person itself. When we speak of sin, we must always separate the sin and the sinner within our own mind. We work against the sin, not the sinner. When I speak of judgement, I mean judgement of the sinner as a person, not judgement of the sin as wrong.

…if we aren’t judging, when is forgiveness even applicable?

Yes. Judgement is a personal condemnation against the sinner. Forgiveness is of the action.

ut I don’t see how Pope Francis’ words show that being angry at someone is “spiritual gossip”.

I was using Pope Francis analogy to drive home a point, although he did go on to link gossip to judgement of brothers and sisters in his address to the gathering of religious at the opening of the Year for Consecrated life.

Holding anger at a person is a form of judgement. It is ‘They wronged me, so they do not deserve the respect I should hold for my brothers and sisters.’ In going over events again and again in your mind in your anger, you tear down the person’s dignity in your mind. Countless times I have seen people take a relatively small and unintentional slight and stew on it until they blow it out of proportion and allow that anger to poison their interactions with that person. What gossip does to others with respect to that person gossiped about, dwelling on anger and judgement does the same to our own perception of that person.

Hmmm. Where did you get this? If a person holds something against a politician, are they to simply hang onto the grudge?

Nope. The person has to let it go. If they have not harmed the person, then there is nothing to forgive. Again, we must separate the action from the dignity of the person. Work against the action, hate the action, but respect the person as a brother or sister.

 

[CRM_Brother]

I don’t get the “directly” part. Where does it come from?

It comes from the original Greek, the words used to note ‘holding anything against anyone’ are the same as in the Our Father. It is a phrase which is used as a plaintiff holding a case against a defendant. The plaintiff can only bring forth complaint for actions directly committed against them. It is the same context as

Settle with your opponent quickly while on the way to court with him. Otherwise your opponent will hand you over to the judge, and the judge will hand you over to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison. (Matthew 5:25 NABRE)