Can Catholics Vote Democrat?

[ishii]

Her support and advocacy of abortion puts her in a state of mortal sin and automatically excommunicates her from the Church. Therefore, she is not a Catholic.

I can’t tell what’s in a person’s heart, but I can tell what a person does and says. If the House Minority Leader values being Catholic, she clearly values cutting up kids more.

I disagree. No one can say with certainty if someone has committed a mortal sin. We don’t have a window into anyone’s soul. I regret what Nancy Pelosi does, but I cannot accuse her of committing any sin. That is for God to decide, not a random poster on CAF. Moreover, we ought to consider our own state of affairs rather than focus on others.

Ishii

 

[estesbob]

Her support and advocacy of abortion puts her in a state of mortal sin and automatically excommunicates her from the Church. Therefore, she is not a Catholic.

I can’t tell what’s in a person’s heart, but I can tell what a person does and says. If the House Minority Leader values being Catholic, she clearly values cutting up kids more.

It is against forum rules to question another’s faith.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

I disagree. No one can say with certainty if someone has committed a mortal sin. We don’t have a window into anyone’s soul. I regret what Nancy Pelosi does, but I cannot accuse her of committing any sin. That is for God to decide, not a random poster on CAF. Moreover, we ought to consider our own state of affairs rather than focus on others.

Ishii

For once we agree completely

 

[Ridgerunner]

I disagree. No one can say with certainty if someone has committed a mortal sin. We don’t have a window into anyone’s soul. I regret what Nancy Pelosi does, but I cannot accuse her of committing any sin. That is for God to decide, not a random poster on CAF. Moreover, we ought to consider our own state of affairs rather than focus on others.

Ishii

Agree. Sin is subjective. But evil is objective. One may say, and rightly, that Nancy Pelosi commits evil. Whether she is sinning or not is between her and God.

 

[Path_Finder]

Agree. Sin is subjective. But evil is objective. One may say, and rightly, that Nancy Pelosi commits evil. Whether she is sinning or not is between her and God.

As we should, judgement is left up to God, however on this topic, I note, one may read the open letter from Priests for Life’s Father Frank Pavone to Representative Pelosi. One may search it out on the net and read this for further reflection on this matter. I choose not to directly link to it but it is easy to find.

While I am here, I would like to totally show my respect and admiration for those politicians that call themselves pro-life and seem to practice it, Senator Ted Cruz, Representative Paul Ryan, Governors Rick Perry and Scot Walker and many many more who are out there, many many who are in the trenches daily and in their local state Houses and Senates, names we do not know right off, the Arizona Representative, a woman of Asian descent who introduced an ultra-sound bill in Arizona and all of the unsung heroes out there and in the communities who are not politicians, working in crisis pregnancy centers, sidewalk counselors and those who pray for the pro-life cause.

 

[dcana]

Absolutely! Just as long as they are pro-life, against supporting Planned Parenthood with tax dollars, against the legalization of two persons of the same sex being “married”, against leveling crippling fines on business owners for exercising their rights under the 1st Amendment, etc. You can vote for any such Democrat you want! Good luck in finding one.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Democratic Catholics - are you doing anything to advocate for change in the platform of the party in regard to the issues of intrinsic evils? I think estesbob or somebody else who commented on this thread also asked this question.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Her support and advocacy of abortion puts her in a state of mortal sin and automatically excommunicates her from the Church. Therefore, she is not a Catholic.

I can’t tell what’s in a person’s heart, but I can tell what a person does and says. If the House Minority Leader values being Catholic, she clearly values cutting up kids more.

Actually we are not her confessor so it is not our job to judge whether it is a mortal sin.

 

[Lapey]

Actually we are not her confessor so it is not our job to judge whether it is a mortal sin.

One does not need to be her confessor to see her PUBLIC support of intrinsic evil. Neither do we need to be a confessor to know that if we support her with a vote, or what she stands for, we cooperate in that evil.

PS. It is our job to judge actions.

 

[steve_b]

Actually we are not her confessor so it is not our job to judge whether it is a mortal sin.

If that is true one couldn’t apply the following scripture.

1n 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God**(“1 jn 5 RSVCE - Faith Conquers the World - Every one - Bible Gateway”)] will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal…

Obviously we DO have the responsibility to know mortal from venial sin … yes even in others.

Problem today, too many have been sucked into a liberal quagmire of thought and action.

Ecclesiastes 10:2A wise man’s heart inclines him toward the right,
but a fool’s heart toward the left.

 

[ishii]

If that is true one couldn’t apply the following scripture.

1n 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God**(“1 jn 5 RSVCE - Faith Conquers the World - Every one - Bible Gateway”)] will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal…

Obviously we DO have the responsibility to know mortal from venial sin … yes even in others.

Problem today, too many have been sucked into a liberal quagmire of thought and action.

Ecclesiastes 10:2A wise man’s heart inclines him toward the right,
but a fool’s heart toward the left.

We can judge the moral gravity of an action. However, we cannot judge the consent or knowledge on the part of the person committing the action. Only God (and the person) can know that.

Ishii

 

[Path_Finder]

I saw Ms. Pelosi once take a stand on this issue and she was saying something like “Listened I gave birth to 5 children…”, maybe people have seen that video, I’m unsure of the number but it was emotional. I would suppose some of these politicians largely divorce themselves from their job as do some voters.

That was one thing I got from reading Abby Johnson’s book, it seems often both sides “demonize” each other in the pro-life/pro-choice debate and possibly dehumanize each other.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Democratic Catholics - are you doing anything to advocate for change in the platform of the party in regard to the issues of intrinsic evils? I think estesbob or somebody else who commented on this thread also asked this question.

I did!

 

[Path_Finder]

So this is important because the Republicans could gain control of the Senate and conceivably block Supreme Court nominees. But somewhere, you can’t block one nominee after another.

 

[saintjohnxxiii]

Time for a Catechism refresher on what constitutes a mortal sin.

1. The thought, word or action must be wrong.
2. The sinner must know this
3. The sinner must give full consent.

If any of these are missing then its a venial sin. Since nobody here can determine #2 none of us can say its a mortal sin.

 

[ishii]

Time for a Catechism refresher on what constitutes a mortal sin.

1. The thought, word or action must be wrong.
2. The sinner must know this
3. The sinner must give full consent.

If any of these are missing then its a venial sin. Since nobody here can determine #2 none of us can say its a mortal sin.

Just to clarify - # 1 must be grave matter. Not any thought, word or action that is wrong is grave matter. However, one would think that supporting abortion would be a grave matter indeed.

Ishii

 

[steve_b]

We can judge the moral gravity of an action. However, we cannot judge the consent or knowledge on the part of the person committing the action. Only God (and the person) can know that.

Ishii

Thinking outloud

if moral gravity is already known, about an act

then

Consent only has to be sufficient enough to be a choice freely given.

This following passage presumes we judge the difference between mortal and venial sin, **& **when a “brother” (I take “brother” to mean someone who is already following & knowledgable about the faith) is either committing mortal or a non mortal sin.

1n 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and Godb] will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal…

 

[ishii]

Thinking outloud

if moral gravity is already known, about an act

then

Consent only has to be sufficient enough to be a choice freely given.

This following passage presumes we judge the difference between mortal and venial sin, **& **when a “brother” (I take “brother” to mean someone who is already following & knowledgable about the faith) is either committing mortal or a non mortal sin.

1n 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and Godb] will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal…

Bottom line: we cannot know if an individual is guilty of committing a mortal sin. Only God knows. I wouldn’t want to be walking that line, obviously.

Ishii

 

[steve_b]

Bottom line: we cannot know if an individual is guilty of committing a mortal sin. Only God knows. I wouldn’t want to be walking that line, obviously.

Ishii

Again thinking outloud,

Then this is a useless passage in scripture inspired by the HS to John, because bottomline, no one but God knows this anyway?

1n 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and Godb] will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal…

 

[ishii]

Again thinking outloud,

Then this is a useless passage in scripture inspired by the HS to John, because bottomline, no one but God knows this anyway?

1n 5:16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and Godb] will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal…

That’s a fair question. But I would be careful to not interpret this passage personally in order to show that we can know if someone committed a mortal sin or not. Here is a quick bit of research I did - from the USCCB site:

deadly sin (literally, “sin unto death”), probably referring to apostasy or activities brought on under the antichrist; cf. Mk 3:29; Heb 6:4–6; 10:26–31 (my bold italics)

Mark 3:29 - “but anyone who blasphemes against the holy spirit will never be forgiven.” Blasphemy meaning the willful rejection of God’s grace and forgiveness.

I hope this helps, steve b. 1 John 5:16 doesn’t seem like a useless passage to me

Ishii