Can Christians fully practice their beliefs today?

[Salibi]

Men used turbans fashioned from scarves usually with an end left loose for covering the lower face. I think its typical desert attire, but even when the dust and sand is not blowing both men and women cover their faces.

Hello claudine,

I believe what you saw was more of an cultural thing than an Islamic thing, since, as you indicated, they wear such concealing clothes to keep out the sand in the wind, and anyways, as a Muslim poster once pointed out, jilbab and niqab are not necessary in Islam.

There are a few younger women who wear western clothes with head scarves,

Indeed this is the fashion among Muslim women in my country. The ones who wear niqab or jilbab are almost always Arab immigrants.

You describe Saudi Arabia as much more tolerant than anything we experienced so far.

You’ve just said that you’ve never been to any Muslim country other than Morocco. How can you have experienced Arabia?

And another thing: I described the people amongst whom I lived as tolerant. I’m well aware that the government there is fundamentalist, and I’m sure there are many people there who are so. Thankfully, I did not meet any of them during my stay. I was not blind to the fact that there were no churches there, either.

Kind regards.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I believe Folau was being insulting to homosexuals by putting this biblical verse on his Instagram page. Whether the punishment should have been this harsh is another matter. It is odd, though, that of all the biblical storehouse of wisdom and love, he should choose just this item to put front and center on his account. It reveals, I think, his skewed interpretation of Christianity. Again, whether this merits adverse action of the kind taken is debatable.

 

[claudine]

Berbers are muslims and cover pretty much completely.

I dnt understand your other comment? I said what you experienced in Saudia Arabia was different and seems much more a tolerant attitude toward Christian whites people than what we experienced. I’m not getting your argument?

In the southern towns of Morocco and the desert, there were not any christian churches at all either. I’m not sure why that is important to your point of view, that there were no churches in S. Arabia.

In Morocco they speak Dirija, some of which I learned before we left for Morocco. Arabic is not widely spoken in Morocco although of course Koran is classical Arabic. Berber and Dirija were both spoken in Morocco, as is french.

Did you and your family enjoy your time in Saudia Arabia?

Best Wishes.

 

[claudine]

Agree. I think insulting people because of their inherent attractions and repulsions is generally not a good thing to try to do.

These things are hard to change inside one’s own mind, and even much more difficult to make other people change!

 

[Salibi]

dnt understand your other comment? I said what you experienced in Saudia Arabia was different and seems much more a tolerant attitude toward Christian whites people than what we experienced. I’m not getting your argument?

My, claudine, I wasn’t arguing! I’m sorry you had such bad experiences in Morocco, but my point is that that seemed to be an exception, not a rule.

the southern towns of Morocco and the desert, there were not any christian churches at all either. I’m not sure why that is important to your point of view, that there were no churches in S. Arabia.

You told me I presented Saudi Arabia as tolerant. I specified that I presented the people I lived among as tolerant, and that I’m well aware the government is fundamentalist Muslim, I used the fact of the illegality of churches as an example.

In Morocco they speak Dirija, some of which I learned before we left for Morocco. Arabic is not widely spoken in Morocco although of course Koran is classical Arabic. Berber and Dirija were both spoken in Morocco, as is french.

Did you know that not one of the Arabic states actually speaks Arabic natively?

Did you and your family enjoy your time in Saudia Arabia?

Not much, to be honest. The novelty wore off after a few months, and it was a very routine existence; they hardly have any tourist attractions there to relieve one’s boredom. We used to go to the desert, but we got lost for hours once and had to call someone. Like I said, the people were nice, but we were still foreign and missed home. And it’s a desert country, nothing at all like my birth country, which is very mountainous-the climate affected me badly and I was nearly always sick. It was a relief to leave, frankly.

Have a nice day.

 

[claudine]

I don’t agree with you that bad experiences in Morocco are the exception. I believe that Morocco is a very hard country and that ‘the rule’ is bad experiences.

Can’t think of a worse experince than having my head cut off or being robbed, asaulted, sexually harrassed, harrassed for money and cat called and whistled at. I think disimilation and lies are demoralizing and depressing and after a while that gets oppressive. Moreso than heat and desert dust storms even.

 

[Salibi]

don’t agree with you that bad experiences in Morocco are the exception. I believe that Morocco is a very hard country and that ‘the rule’ is bad experiences.

As you wish. There’s no need to continue in this conversation past this point.

 

[claudine]

So true Flowers!

 

[Rozellelily]

Yes good point it’s true .
At the same time though,while I can’t speak for in the US or US men, here I have never felt uncomfortable with any Christian men in interactions (although it’s impossible to know who is Christian if anyone), I have sometimes felt uncomfortable if I’ve had to go to Lakemba (very high Muslim population) with stares from some leery men etc and it would be poor judgment for a woman to wear the same things to Lakemba as she would wear to Bondi Beach as she might not be safe.

 

[Rozellelily]

What I don’t agree about Muslim culture,and I know this doesn’t apply to all Muslims, is that some of them have double standards for the men and the women.
Ie:women are expected to be more virtuous and not go to nightclubs etc but it’s tolerated for men to go in Dubai with Russian prostitutes.
By their religion this is bad,but by their culture it’s tolerated and it’s only the women that are judged not the men.

Even in my background Bosnian, I don’t live there but sadly I have heard on news of cases of some men from Saudi going to Bosnia and expoliting some girls of my background who are Muslim -using them as a prostitute- and rationalising to themselves that’s it’s ok because they are “halal” prostitute (Iek because the girl is Muslim)!!

 

[Salibi]

Ie:women are expected to be more virtuous and not go to nightclubs etc but it’s tolerated for men to go in Dubai with Russian prostitutes.
By their religion this is bad,but by their culture it’s tolerated and it’s only the women that are judged not the men.

Indeed.

Even in my background Bosnian, I don’t live there but sadly I have heard on news of cases of some men from Saudi going to Bosnia and expoliting some girls of my background who are Muslim -using them as a prostitute- and rationalising to themselves that’s it’s ok because they are “halal” prostitute (Iek because the girl is Muslim)!!

The thing is, some of them think non-Arab or non-Muslim girls are little better than prostitutes themselves. It’s a terrible mentality, really.

 

[TheLittleLady]

, is that some of them have double standards for the men and the women.

This is the same with people of low morals across religious, cultures and across time. In the US there is a certain strata of men who believe “there are a kind of girl you date and another kind you marry”. Again, this is not true for all men, men of virtue are men of virtue.

 

[Salibi]

This is the same with people of low morals across religious, cultures and across time. In the US there is a certain strata of men who believe “there are a kind of girl you date and another kind you marry”. Again, this is not true for all men, men of virtue are men of virtue.

Aye, but it’s endemic in the Arab world. Sorry to say that misogyny is part of their culture. We’ve had some trouble with Arab tourists in the past in my country; a disproportionately high number of them seemed to think catcalling women is a perfectly acceptable, reasonable thing to be doing. And I’ve lived in Saudi Arabia for several years, they have a tendency to see all Western or non-Arab women as loose-moralled or lust-filled.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I am sorry that you have had that experience.

I live where there is a low Muslim population, and those tend to be kind, respectful and devout people. Just as we hope that the stereotypical “rude American tourist” does not give a bad idea of all Americans, I know my Muslim friends cringe when other people have had this impression of all Muslims.

 

[Rozellelily]

Yes there are many good/caring/family orientated Muslims too.
You mentioned living in a low Muslim area-usually that means more having contact with only the nice/moderate Muslims such as office workers etc and only hearing the bad experiences through the news,but if you went to a heavily Muslim area such as Lakemba you would see that that it is 99 % only predominantly the men out at night (at cafes etc) while all the women are at home.
Some men hang out on the streets or being anti social in the Mc Donald’s car park,standing on car,acting aggressive/showing off etc.
You don’t feel fully safe.

I’m not suggesting these issues are exclusive to Muslim communities - there are issues from other “cultures” too such as NRL football culture seems to have a problem with treating women with respect-but it can’t be ignored that in some middle eastern or African Muslim families boys are given more freedom to do whatever or excused more than than girls.
Even some of the mothers view Australian or non Muslim women as being ***** so if a mother perceives this way,no wonder their sons are how they are.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I’d also imagine that Australian culture in general is different than American culture in general.

 

[claudine]

I found this to be true in Morocco, white skinned women are targets for some Muslim men.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

There is a difference between practicing our beliefs and trying to impose our beliefs on others. I think this is where the divide is.
The United States is made up of people of difference religious beliefs.
Our country is made up of people who have different ideas about many different issues of the day.
We as Catholic can only put forth our beliefs and try to live by those beliefs.

 

[Rozellelily]

To me,imposing beliefs would be if he (the footballer) went around to other people’s Instagram accounts and posted on them that they were going to hell etc but because he put it on his own account,I don’t think he crossed a line.
Whether Christian,or Muslim etc,surely someone should be free to post on their own Insta page their beliefs.

It’s interesting that the Instagram platform/business themselves had no issue with it but that the Australian football executives did because the political climate in Australia is so pro gay marriage/relationships.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

God gives us a free will as to what we may believe and how we live our lives. Though we may advocate to others to join us and pray for others, it is up to our brothers and sisters as to how they will live.