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Cat_Herder
Guest
That’s like asking if a black hole is the ultimate entity of gravity. Well, nothing has more gravity than a black hole, but gravity is not itself a black hole but rather a property of a black hole.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Who created the black hole? Why does the black hole’s literature talk about a literal entity of evil?
Why does the CCC speak about Satan and the Anti Christ then if they are not supernatural entitites?
What the heck are they then? Explain in depth.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
It arose due to physical laws and 17 fundamental constants of the Universe, which preexist the Universe. (See e.g. Stephen Hawking, who asserts this about gravity). Thus, they were ordained by God.
It’s called a metaphor.
I didn’t say they weren’t supernatural entities. I just said that they are not the concepts they most represent.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Stephen Hawking did not say the prexistance of any physical laws were ordainded by your Christian God, or any other god. Note the repsect I have for using the upper case for your chosen deity.
Metaphors. Don’t you love them! They sure come in handy a whole lot of the time don’t they?
So, you did not say that Satan or the Anti Christ wern’t supernatural entities, but you said they are NOT the concepts they most represent.
What are they then? Who misrepresented them so badly? What went so wrong?
Can you explain what they as supernatural beings are in the mind of the catholic, and their roles and meaning in your belief system and dogmas you must follow no matter what new evidence comes about.
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fons_vitae
Guest
If you destroyed God (as if that were even possible), you yourself would cease to exist, wouldn’t you? To draw a loose metaphor, it would be like a fish endeavoring to annihilate every last drop of water in the world…
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Cat_Herder
Guest
I didn’t say that he did. He did, however, say that gravity preexisted the Universe. Read my post again carefully and you’ll note I set off my conclusion accordingly.
But here’s what Dr. Hawking hasn’t figured out. Gravity is an effect. It has a cause. If it doesn’t have a cause, then science cannot explain every effect and must relinquish its monopoly on explanation of the physical world.
The Protestant Reformation.
Here you go. (Snide and misinformed remark duly ignored.)
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Have you seen the Asian carp in Lake Michigan? Be scared. Really scared.
On a more serious note, where does your bible even hint at the possibility that your God will be in any danger of being destroyed at all? How could anyone believe or die believing in a God who was going to end up destroyed?
What would be the point in it?
Crucifyed and Resurrected is one thing, but Destroyed in the end?
???
What is the point of that? Just asking.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
God is outside of time. More Hawking for you: the professor says that time began at the Big Bang. Obviously God was around before that, so God is not subject to time. In part because of this, God is not subject to change, let alone destruction.
[BIBLEDRB]Malachi 3:6[/BIBLEDRB]
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StrawberryJam
Guest
A Cause? As you define one to be? Who gets to decide if there has to be a “Cause” and who is that Cause?
In order to be charatible, and remain here I must let that one go while I go outside and scream my head off for a bit.
Then, I come back and pretend all is well again.
Knowing it never will be here.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
Didn’t you have to do a “science project” in primary school? All science is based on cause and effect. If there are effects without causes, then you have an effect that is real but is also unexplainable by science.
If you don’t get it, you’ll need to ask Fr. Roger Bacon. He is a Catholic friar. He also invented modern science.
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inocente
Guest
Off hand the only time I remember God being destroyed was in Douglas Adams - God thought of a proof for his own non-existence and promptly disappeared in a puff of his own logic.
I used to be an atheist, primarily because I couldn’t square a loving God with the annual misery of floods taking lives in Bangladesh, the pointlessness of the Holocaust, the “christians” saying that New Orleans brought Katrina on itself by its sinfulness, and so on.
And in writing those words I destroy God again right now in my mind. But then “for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face” and I flip back into theist mode. Go figure.
I guess all belief, whether god, no-god or whatever is about how we interpret the evidence from our personal experience. Whether that means we can destroy God I don’t know.
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grannymh
Guest
Yes.
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grannymh
Guest
This is an important distinction to add to other descriptions of evil.
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grannymh
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Inocente, you are wise beyond the number of years of my life. Or maybe you are lucky.Off hand the only time I remember God being destroyed was in Douglas Adams - God thought of a proof for his own non-existence and promptly disappeared in a puff of his own logic.
I used to be an atheist, primarily because I couldn’t square a loving God with the annual misery of floods taking lives in Bangladesh, the pointlessness of the Holocaust, the “christians” saying that New Orleans brought Katrina on itself by its sinfulness, and so on.
And in writing those words I destroy God again right now in my mind. But then “for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face” and I flip back into theist mode. Go figure.
I guess all belief, whether god, no-god or whatever is about how we interpret the evidence from our personal experience. Whether that means we can destroy God I don’t know.
I have been working on a reply to your question about soul in this thread – forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=478146 Post 196. I need to show it to a Catholic philosopher friend of mine before posting. But if I do some tinkering, I can use part of it to continue your thoughts regarding destroying God in one’s mind.
Of course, one’s mind is not evil in itself. Our nature, including intellect and will, is good in itself even though it is flawed in the face of temptations. Your wise reference to interpretation sounds like an important key in this discussion. I have often thought about finding the movie that I remember as “Through a Glass Darkly”. Maybe Google would help if I could remember the director who did a couple of movies in that vein. He was European.
Blessings,
granny
John 3: 16 & 17
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Scaun
Guest
No, evil cannot destroy good. Evil is won by good.
Why? God is good. God is above all. God is immortal and indestructible. Thus good will never be destroyed. Since God is good and God is indestructible, evil will never destroy God nor the ‘good’.
Why? God is good. God is above all. God is immortal and indestructible. Thus good will never be destroyed. Since God is good and God is indestructible, evil will never destroy God nor the ‘good’.
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fons_vitae
Guest
Good point: it doesn’t.
How could anyone believe or die believing in a God who was going to end up destroyed?
What would be the point in it?
Crucif*ed and Resurrected is one thing, but Destroyed in the end?
???
What is the point of that? Just asking.*
Another excellent point. Sacred Scripture tells us that God is eternal and Jesus reigns forever… so why are you agreeing with us so much?
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Usagi
Guest
Yes, Satan and the Antichrist are entities/beings. And they are/will be evil entities/beings, meaning that they behave evilly and indeed dedicate themselves utterly to evil ends.
However, evil (the abstraction) is not an independent entity or being, in Christian/Catholic thinking. Every created being (including Satan and the Antichrist) is created good. Evil is a corruption of a pre-existing good.
Satan, in Christian thought, is not Evil Personified or some kind of anti-God. He is a specific creature (usually held to be the highest of the angels) who was created good but chose evil.
Hence it is perfectly correct to say that Satan is an entity, but evil is not.
Usagi
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grannymh
Guest
The CCC actually describes the created supernatural spirit as an entity known as angel. It describes the free choice of some of these created angels to irrevocably reject God and His reign. Satan and devils are considered as the entities known as fallen angels. CCC paragraphs 391-395. Please see additional CCC references in link in post 26. Also refer to post 37.
The term “antichrist” appears in paragraphs CCC 675-677. It seems to refer to a “supreme religious deception”. However, down through the ages, the term antichrist has been hurled, like a 4-letter word, at a number of Popes but has never been substantiated.
Blessings,
granny
Link to CCC www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
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grannymh
Guest
First, please consider that just because a question is asked in reference to God, that does not automatically mean that the question or comment is part of Scripture.
Do you ever wonder why people like the philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche, proclaim that “God is Dead”? Or why people attack the Catholic Church because of evil events throughout its history?
I realize that Friedrich Niertzsche is no longer a prime time sound bite. But there are plenty of people who claim that God does not exist.
What destroyed the ancient belief in God in part of our society?
Why is only the bad history of Catholics thrown in the public spotlight, if not to bring down the Catholic Church?
Is it possible that some of today’s women and men actually believe that words and more words can ultimately destroy God and His commandments?
In the short time since I landed on CAF, there have been many posts using examples of evil as the means to deny the goodness and mercy of God. Sometimes, I see between the lines the desire to eliminate God altogether. My heart goes out to the members and guests who struggle with this balderdash, this nonsense which distracts from the true God.
Blessings,
granny
Isaiah 55: 6-9
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Best wishes to you Granny,
As I always have for you.
Not sure why you seem to find So many who claim God is dead. Not sure why.
Here is why I wonder about that. Athiests would NEVER claim outright, that there is NO POSSIBILITY of your christian God. Sure, there may be some wingnuts out there just as there are wearing the banner of (pick your label) Christianity.
What you would see more often, would be that your Christian God is possible. But, so very very bloody unlikely that it is so far away from being possible. Yet is remains to be a very very small possibility. For now.
Quoting a guy who is not, never was and never will be a pope of all non theists or a person of authority over any non theist, does not do you well. Nor does it show your ethics in a good light on this particular matter Granny. You should know better than this. I have read your posts and you most certainly know better than to do this.
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