Can evil destroy God?

[StrawberryJam]

The CCC actually describes the created supernatural spirit as an entity known as angel. It describes the free choice of some of these created angels to irrevocably reject God and His reign. Satan and devils are considered as the entities known as fallen angels. CCC paragraphs 391-395. Please see additional CCC references in link in post 26. Also refer to post 37.

The term “antichrist” appears in paragraphs CCC 675-677. It seems to refer to a “supreme religious deception”. However, down through the ages, the term antichrist has been hurled, like a 4-letter word, at a number of Popes but has never been substantiated.

Blessings,
granny

Link to CCC www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Okay, so we both agree Satan is a supernatural entity.
Unfortunately, we can not know either one of us if the alleged Anti Christ is a supernatural entity or not, based on the Christian narrative.

So, the Anti Christ could be the guy I sit next to at Holy Mass then.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Good point: it doesn’t.

Another excellent point. Sacred Scripture tells us that God is eternal and Jesus reigns forever… so why are you agreeing with us so much? You should switch sides in your argument.

The funny thing is, sometimes I wonder that myself.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Off hand the only time I remember God being destroyed was in Douglas Adams - God thought of a proof for his own non-existence and promptly disappeared in a puff of his own logic.

I used to be an atheist, primarily because I couldn’t square a loving God with the annual misery of floods taking lives in Bangladesh, the pointlessness of the Holocaust, the “christians” saying that New Orleans brought Katrina on itself by its sinfulness, and so on.

And in writing those words I destroy God again right now in my mind. But then “for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face” and I flip back into theist mode. Go figure.

I guess all belief, whether god, no-god or whatever is about how we interpret the evidence from our personal experience. Whether that means we can destroy God I don’t know.

That was the most beautiful post I have seen regarding this *specific *issue while here.

 

[grannymh]

Best wishes to you Granny,

As I always have for you.

Not sure why you seem to find So many who claim God is dead. Not sure why.

So glad you replied so we can talk.

Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900, was a German philosophy writer who may have been one of the first who publically declared the non-existence of God. He coined the phrase “God Is Dead” which he often wrote about. In a way, he could be considered the “Richard Dawkins” of the 19th Century.

Nietzsche was a persuasive writer who influenced non-theists worldwide. Sometime in the 1950’s or 60’s, I remember seeing a story in Time magazine or a similar news magazine with the heading “God Is Dead.” Maybe it was an anniversary of some book by Nietzsche. I have no idea if his philosophy is still popular but his unfortuate phrase certainly is.

Here is why I wonder about that. Athiests would NEVER claim outright, that there is NO POSSIBILITY of your christian God. Sure, there may be some wingnuts out there just as there are wearing the banner of (pick your label) Christianity.

I have saved the December 18, 2009, issue of Isthmus, a Madison, Wisconsin newspaper. A couple is pictured on the cover with this heading. “Happily God-free Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor find fulfillment taking on religion” These people are co-presidents of the “Freedom from Religion Foundation” an advocacy group for nonbelievers. In 2007, their first Madison billboard appeared with the message “Imagine No Religion”. In 2009, its first exterior bus sign appeared with the message “Sleep in on Sundays”. Expanding to other areas of the country, there were ads of Santa saying, “Yes Virginia…there is no God.”

The Freedom From Religion Foundation has doubled since 2006 to 14,000 in 2009. This is small potatoes compared to the network connected with the American Humanist Association which promotes a “good life” without the supernatural which would be without theism.

What you would see more often, would be that your Christian God is possible. But, so very very bloody unlikely that it is so far away from being possible. Yet is remains to be a very very small possibility. For now.

Yes, this attitude that a Christian God is possible does exist along with best-selling books such as The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. In my humble opinion, the idea of God being a delusion is just another version of God is dead.

Perhaps the misunderstanding is that the role of people like Nietzsche and Dawkins is not really comparable to the head, or pope, of a large organization such as the Catholic Church. Though I do have a gut feeling that some current authors may eventually be part of some advocacy group such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

The reason I refer to Nietzsche is that unfortunately he gave a huge push to atheism. There are a few atheists on CAF who have said that they seriously went about their decision. I believe them. It is very possible that some of these people were influenced over time by Nietzsche and the popular writers who followed him.

We live in difficult times. It is hard to practice Catholicism in the midst of opposing forces. We need to remember that no evil, even that in books, can destroy God. God remains a loving and merciful God no matter what is written about Him.

Blessings,
granny

The quest for spiritual truth needs Catholicism.

 

[grannymh]

That was the most beautiful post I have seen regarding this *specific *issue while here.

I absolutely agree with you about the beautiful post 31 by Inocente. It is so true.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I absolutely agree with you about the beautiful post 31 by Inocente. It is so true.

Good to hear, another reason I like you Granny.

I can not reply to your post to me prior to this one.

I am amazed you replied the way you did, with the ability you have to understand based on what I have seen from you here.

Is it like a light switch, one can turn off and on when it suits one?

I have no idea. That is why I am here- on the fence.

Both sides are far from perfect, but one side never claimed truth and still seeks it.

 

[grannymh]

Good to hear, another reason I like you Granny.

I can not reply to your post to me prior to this one.

I am amazed you replied the way you did, with the ability you have to understand based on what I have seen from you here.

Is it like a light switch, one can turn off and on when it suits one?

I have no idea. That is why I am here- on the fence.

Both sides are far from perfect, but one side never claimed truth and still seeks it.

Don’t be concerned about replying to what I write. I understand you to be a genuine sincere person who happens to be perched on a fence before making a decision. How I wish I could tip toe up to you and give you a shove.

It does surprise people that I can write from both sides of the fence. It is not a lighjt switch; rather it is more a desire to understand how others are thinking and also the source of their thinking. In my childhood neighborhood, there was a saying that one has to first walk a mile in the other person’s moccasins.

Yet, at the end of the day, I find myself where I belong which is in the Catholic Church. Sure I have had some disagreements and some doubts over my lifetime. But my disagreements and doubts will never be strong enough to break my relationship with my Lord and Savior. I take joy in what I believe with all my soul which of course is the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. What really amazes me is that Jesus is willing to come to a sinner like me. He treats me as if
I were a saint.

Blessings,
granny

O Sacrament Most Holy,
O Sacrament Divine,
All praise and all thanksgiving,
be every moment Thine.

Very old prayer praising Jesus present in the Eucharist, the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Don’t be concerned about replying to what I write. I understand you to be a genuine sincere person who happens to be perched on a fence before making a decision. How I wish I could tip toe up to you and give you a shove.

It does surprise people that I can write from both sides of the fence. It is not a lighjt switch; rather it is more a desire to understand how others are thinking and also the source of their thinking. In my childhood neighborhood, there was a saying that one has to first walk a mile in the other person’s moccasins.

Yet, at the end of the day, I find myself where I belong which is in the Catholic Church. Sure I have had some disagreements and some doubts over my lifetime. But my disagreements and doubts will never be strong enough to break my relationship with my Lord and Savior. I take joy in what I believe with all my soul which of course is the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. What really amazes me is that Jesus is willing to come to a sinner like me. He treats me as if
I were a saint.

Blessings,
granny

O Sacrament Most Holy,
O Sacrament Divine,
All praise and all thanksgiving,
be every moment Thine.

Very old prayer praising Jesus present in the Eucharist, the Blessed Sacrament.

And that you are Granny. For you are honest, and I admire that.
You help lead people to a greater understanding of science than they had or were allowed to have before.
You will always be a friend in my mind and heart

Take care of yourself,
We need more people like you in this world

 

[grannymh]

Sometimes, I get the impression from posts that people want to discredit God’s reputation. Give Him a black eye for whatever goes wrong in the world. Considering that God exists beyond this life, how can a mortal assume they know God’s reasoning?

If and when someone judges God to be doing the wrong thing, does this person really, truly know all the eternal spiritual factors which are involved?

The fact that God is good does not depend on human judgment.
Our ignorance of why bad things happen does not change God’s love for all people in every century.

What is the real motive for people declaring that they can’t accept God because He did such and such or allowed this and that?

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55: 6-9 contains the answer to the mysteries of life.

 

[EricFilmer]

Isaiah 55: 6-9 contains the answer to the mysteries of life.

Great Bible citation, grannymh.

And when confounded with the mysteries of life, I find it helps to also consider verse 1 from that same chapter of Isaiah:

“Drink wine”

 

[edward_george]

“To destroy God” is a nonsensical statement. God is pure being, the very pinnacle of existence. He lacks no perfection, ergo he cannot be reduced.

-ACEGC

 

[grannymh]

“To destroy God” is a nonsensical statement. God is pure being, the very pinnacle of existence. He lacks no perfection, ergo he cannot be reduced.

-ACEGC

Of course it is a nonsensical statement for theists. And I am willing to bet that some non-theists realize that it is nonsense. Yet, why are there so many attacks against the existence of God?

 

[inocente]

Our ignorance of why bad things happen does not change God’s love for all people in every century.

I vaguely remember some lines from a play. A guy whose belief in God was shattered by some personal crisis asks his priest what possible reason there is to believe. Why believe when bad things happen? “Because then we need to pray the burden will be lifted”. Why when good things happen? “Because then we need to give thanks”.

The priest is utterly dumbfounded by the silly questions, the unbeliever is stupefied by the inane answers, yet we the audience see both as rational and consistent.

There’s nowt sae queer as folk (old English saying - there’s nothing as strange as people).

 

[StrawberryJam]

Sometimes, I get the impression from posts that people want to discredit God’s reputation. Give Him a black eye for whatever goes wrong in the world. Considering that God exists beyond this life, how can a mortal assume they know God’s reasoning?

If and when someone judges God to be doing the wrong thing, does this person really, truly know all the eternal spiritual factors which are involved?

The fact that God is good does not depend on human judgment.
Our ignorance of why bad things happen does not change God’s love for all people in every century.

What is the real motive for people declaring that they can’t accept God because He did such and such or allowed this and that?

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55: 6-9 contains the answer to the mysteries of life.

What spiritual factors are involved with childhood cancer Granny?

 

[CrimsonCatholic]

Absolutely Not, God is the Alpha and the Omega.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Absolutely Not, God is the Alpha and the Omega.

Just my 2 cents.

Why would God allow for believers children to have cancer? Why wouldn’t he “pass them over”? They have the sacrement of Baptism in the West, and in the East they have already had the body and blood in the Eucharist (okay, so we are talking about childhood cancer before the Great Schism in that case)

 

[CrimsonCatholic]

Why would God allow for believers children to have cancer? Why wouldn’t he “pass them over”? They have the sacrement of Baptism in the West, and in the East they have already had the body and blood in the Eucharist (okay, so we are talking about childhood cancer before the Great Schism in that case)

God is not a Genie.

Who knows why? I am not God, I don’t know his thoughts. We won’t know until (hopefully) we are in heaven. God does mysterious things, and wonders that we can not always explain. Its apart of his plan in the end. Is it painful when a young child is hit with Cancer? YES!!! This does not take away from the pain, but with Prayer and treatment, we hope for the best turnout!

 

[StrawberryJam]

God is not a Genie.

Who knows why? We won’t know until (hopefully) we are in heaven. God does mysterious things, and wonders that we can not always explain. Its apart of his plan in the end. Is it painful when a young child is hit with Cancer? YES!!! This does not take away from the pain, but with Prayer and treatment, we hope for the best turnout!

I am sorry I spelled sacrament wrong earlier.

Anyway- I am asking why there is no visible benefit to the sacraments. The child is below the age of reason. Has been baptised. I go to mass nearly 4 times a week and have grown close to the parents that lost their child to cancer. I wondered about all the nice ways God had protected his people by means of splashing blood all about doors, and other means. Then we see, these are children of believers in this same God, who was willing to give a way out for his people. He is not giving my friends a way out. They buried their child. No amount of prayers or believing or splashing of blood or being at Mass every week or volunteering stopped their innocent child from getting cancer that caused the end of their short life. I hate how I can not understand this. I know I am sensitive now, with my friend committing suicide recently.
But for crying out loud already-

WHY is he not showing himself? Absent. So Absent.

Even his believers are not to be held accountable to be on the higher ground because they are human, and they can sin.

He leaves us here with nothing. NOTHING.

 

[grannymh]

What spiritual factors are involved with childhood cancer Granny?

The prime spiritual factor is that the child has an immortal, eternal soul which enables her or him to share in the divine life of God. This is what it means to be created in the image of God. Of all the creatures on earth, we alone are called to share by knowledge and love in God’s own life.

We need to remember that after Adam’s fall, God did not abandon humanity. The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Jesus Christ became obedient to death in order to make amends for the disobedience of Adam which caused death to enter the world. Death is not easy for anyone, adult or child. Yet, we need to remember that Christ was victorious over death. Because a child is in the image of God, just as we are, a child will share in Christ’s victory.

A child’s spiritual goal is the same spiritual goal of adults. At the moment of conception, a child begins her or his journey toward eternal bliss in union with God.
The length of that journey is up to God.

Like adults, children, too, do suffer awful diseases and disabilities. Because children are innocent, we don’t want them to have any kind of suffering. It is near impossible for us to see that suffering can be part of life at its very beginning. But suffering and death is part of humanity’s journey. A child is not exempt from humanity’s frailties.

We cannot judge why or how God brings children through death to heaven. We do not know why the soul leaves the body so soon. What we need to realize is that God’s love is drawing a child to Himself quicker than others. God knows the spiritual needs of this child. In these instances, we simply have to trust the spiritual judgment of God.

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55: 6-9

 

[StrawberryJam]

The prime spiritual factor is that the child has an immortal, eternal soul which enables her or him to share in the divine life of God. This is what it means to be created in the image of God. Of all the creatures on earth, we alone are called to share by knowledge and love in God’s own life.

We need to remember that after Adam’s fall, God did not abandon humanity. The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Jesus Christ became obedient to death in order to make amends for the disobedience of Adam which caused death to enter the world. Death is not easy for anyone, adult or child. Yet, we need to remember that Christ was victorious over death. Because a child is in the image of God, just as we are, a child will share in Christ’s victory.

A child’s spiritual goal is the same spiritual goal of adults. At the moment of conception, a child begins her or his journey toward eternal bliss in union with God.
The length of that journey is up to God.

Like adults, children, too, do suffer awful diseases and disabilities. Because children are innocent, we don’t want them to have any kind of suffering. It is near impossible for us to see that suffering can be part of life at its very beginning. But suffering and death is part of humanity’s journey. A child is not exempt from humanity’s frailties.

We cannot judge why or how God brings children through death to heaven. We do not know why the soul leaves the body so soon. What we need to realize is that God’s love is drawing a child to Himself quicker than others. God knows the spiritual needs of this child. In these instances, we simply have to trust the spiritual judgment of God.

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55: 6-9

I am not able to trust judgment of a God that tells me I can never know his higher ways of deciding the fate of humans in the case of children but can tell me in very great detail the ways I can know his dealings with those at the point of reason.