Can I get some help with these questions

[Joe_5859]

I thank all you guys for your interest in my questions

i’m at work right now so i will not be able to post much. when i get home we can get the ball rolling.

i pay this will be beneficial to all parties.

i would like to start with question 1 please.

1. Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven?

i will strart to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. from scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
i got this link from Mr. Joe 5859
is this the right one, i ask because i know there is a lot of them out there. and they are not all the same.
just so every one kno this will be the one i will be looking studying and getting my information.

so please let me know if this it the right one.

thank you.

Yes, that’s the right Catechism. The CCC is also on the Vatican website, but, for some reason, the Vatican site still has the first edition of the CCC (1992) that is an English translation of the French (the CCC was originally written in French). In 1997, the Vatican promulgated the official Latin translation upon which the second edition is based. The site above is the best online source for this official second edition (it’s the most user-friendly).

I know, more info than you needed to know.

 

[dnelson001]

I hate to be a pain, but this question is ambiguous. Do you mean to ask is there only one way to get to heaven? Even if this is what you intend, it’s an odd question. Ultimately the only way we get to Heaven is if God judges us worthy of Heaven. All forms of Christianity would agree with that as the “one way”, despite all the theological differences, so how can the question be a useful barometer of anything? Just so you understand what I mean, let me pose another similar question: Is there one way to salvation? Well, yes and no, depending on how you look at it. Salvation is by grace and through faith - is that one way or two? I guess I’ll be patient and simply let the discussion flow…if you want to hear the truth it will be easy enough to present it. If you are convinced you already know the truth re: the Catholic Church, nothing we say will matter.
Also, while it is admiral that you would try to read the whole Catechism, you dont quite realize what an effort that would entail. Better to stick to a specific question initially…

Blessings

Hi Philthy

I must say that is an interesting name lol.

I don’t mean to sound rude but please keep your sarcasm out of the discussion. I never said I was going to read the whole catechism, have you read the whole thing yet?
I know how to investigate a topic thank you very much.

With that said I’m Sorry if the question is not understandable, I will try to open it up more to you.
Is salvation by Jesus or can we get it from Mary, the Pope, the saints or any one else.

For me it is by Jesus and Him alone.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. to get to God the father i go through Him.

Salvation is by grace and through faith - is that one way or two?

this is what i’m talking about, so let me answer your question with another question.
Grace by whom? and faith in whom? as you can see it is not that confusing, the answer to both question is Jesus Christ, but it can be confusing if you want it to be. it is up to you.

i believe there are theological differences because we want to put our own interpretation on thing. i believe if we all take it for what it say that deference would not exist. the problem is not the word, the problem is that we want it to say what we think it should say.
i think that we can all agree with that also.

I’m still reading the Catechism to see what it says about the topic.
The question is based on the answer I give at my first post. Read the answer to my first post and that may help you to understand the question.

Thank you and may God bless and keep you.

 

[Dchsknight]

Hi Philthy

I must say that is an interesting name lol.

I don’t mean to sound rude but please keep your sarcasm out of the discussion. I never said I was going to read the whole catechism, have you read the whole thing yet?
I know how to investigate a topic thank you very much.

With that said I’m Sorry if the question is not understandable, I will try to open it up more to you.
Is salvation by Jesus or can we get it from Mary, the Pope, the saints or any one else.

For me it is by Jesus and Him alone.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. to get to God the father i go through Him.

this is what i’m talking about, so let me answer your question with another question.
Grace by whom? and faith in whom? as you can see it is not that confusing, the answer to both question is Jesus Christ, but it can be confusing if you want it to be. it is up to you.

i believe there are theological differences because we want to put our own interpretation on thing. i believe if we all take it for what it say that deference would not exist. the problem is not the word, the problem is that we want it to say what we think it should say.
i think that we can all agree with that also.

I’m still reading the Catechism to see what it says about the topic.
The question is based on the answer I give at my first post. Read the answer to my first post and that may help you to understand the question.

Thank you and may God bless and keep you.

Hey Dnelson!

I am so glad you started with a Question.

Let me start by telling you a little bit of my Background. I am a recent Convert to Catholicism. I converted from a Protestant Baptist background and I have never looked back.

I belevie the answer to your Question is this.

Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven? Yes, because it does.

Jesus is the Way the truth and the Life. NO ONE comes to the father but by him.

There is no other name by which man is saved.

So the Answer is, is there only one way? Yes.

Now that way is highly debated. I mean look at all the different Protestant Denoms and then there is Mormons and SDA and JW and Masons, ETC.

This is how i see it from my 24 years of Protestantism. Jesus/God, because they are the same person, Set up only One church. The Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, Christ is in the Eucharist and Eucharist is only in the Catholic Church. IT has been this way for over 2000 Years. ALSO Gamaliel, the Pharisee at the Trail of John and Peter or James Peter, cant remember who the other guy was with Peter, said If this (Christanity) is of God we cant not stop it.

Only One Church has Preserved since Christ Crucifixion and that is the Catholic Church. Since this is the case( you can argue all you want but History and the Bible backs it up) No other church besides the Catholic church has Christ. Now can Christ save people outside the Church? yes, he can do what ever he wants. but he did set some guidelines down. Confessions, Eucharist, Baptism, etc, and he did say, If you love me you will Obey.

If you don’t Obey what he said, No amount of Faith will save. you have to Obey. If you want to be put under the New Covenant you must Follow the Guidelines set of the Covenant.

So does the Church teach there is only one way, Yes, Christ. but you have to do what he said and that is in only one place, The Catholic Church. The full truth of Christ is here in his home, the Catholic Church and no were else.

 

[Joe_5859]

dnelson,

I’ve been thinking about this discussion and I really want to write more when time allows, but for now I wanted to point you to some passages of the CCC that are pertinent to your first question to save you (no pun intended ) from having to sift through it all yourself. Particularly important to understanding the Catholic view on Mary’s role is CCC 970.

CCC 169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” [55] Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

[55] Faustus of Riez, De Spiritu Sancto 1,2L 62,II.

CCC 620 Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because “he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins” (1 Jn 4:10). “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself” (2 Cor 5:19).

CCC 969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.” [512]

[512] LG 62.

CCC 970 “Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” [513] “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.” [514]

[513] LG 60.
[514] LG 62.

Think of it this way. Christ is the one Mediator. We can all agree on that. However, that does not exclude the role of anyone else in cooperating with Christ’s mission. In a very real sense, we are all mediators if we are doing what we are supposed to be doing. We are all trying to bring Christ to other people, right? We talk about Jesus to other people and tell them what He has done for us. We pray for other people to come to know Jesus. How many of us were first converted to Christ because another person witnessed to us the saving power of Jesus?

Ultimately, the salvation comes from God alone. But He dispenses his grace to us through other people, not because He has to, but because He wants to. If this were not the case, there would be no need for us to evangelize. We could sit at home and let God take care of it. As I’m sure you are well aware, this is not what Scripture says, though. Jesus plainly sent us out on a mission to teach and to baptize all people (Matthew 28:16-20).

 

[dnelson001]

He will also need to have a basic understanding of the Doctrine of infallibility and the place of sacred tradition in Catholic Doctirne.

Yes please point me in the right direction. I must admit that it is not clear what that means to you. if you can clear this up to me i would greatly appreciate it.
please tell me what it is to you and then a link or something to verify it. the reason why i’m asking for your explanation is because if i just read the link, judging by things so far i may con to a different conclusion. so in order to not wats time reading something 2 times just give me your explanation so i can have something to go on. thank you

For instance googling up a quote from a Jesusit book proves nothing-I am a product of a Jesuit education and beleive me Jesuits are not infallible nor do they speak for the church. I suspect he will also need to learn the difference between infallibe and impecable.

Well i dint know the difference between infallible and impecable. first time i herd the term.
like i say, please put it in plain words before you give a link. most people like to give you links to something that thy have never read or assumes it say something. so please read it first before recommending it.

The imprtance of Sacred traidtion is applicable when he makes claims like scripture does not say we should sanctify Sunday. Up until the 1840s neither the Church or any of the thousands of Chrisitan denominations had a problem with Sunday Worship-in fact we can see Sunday Worship going back to the time of the apostles. We will need a lot more that “well my reading of Scripturesays this is wrong” to dispute this.

well i’m not 100% sure about other religions but i know that Adventist did not keep Sabbath (Saturday) until after 1844. but from the time of Adam until today there have always been a remnant that keep Saturday. but it was never eradicated from the earth.
we tend to believed that the Sabbath was for the Jews, not only catholic but all major religion think that. but let me ask you one question. was Adam and Eve Jews? the Sabbath was from the beginning.
Jesus himself Give it to them. In the beginning was the word, and the word was God, by him all things were made. and that word became flesh and dwelt among us.
so at the beginning Jesus rested on the sabbath, at his death he rested on the Sabbath, and Isaiah 66 say that we will worship on Sabbath after we get to Heaven.
but we are not at question 9 yet.
regarding what you said about tradition… I was told the term Dark Ages is ofensive but i dont have any other way of refering to it. If you have any other term for that period in church histry me let me know so i can use it. for now i will just say from 538 - 1798 every person that believed different from what the church believed was done in might add that they were mostly Sabbath keepers. you must remember that back then people really hated the Jews and if you kept Sabbath you were considered a Jew. so in order to escape persicution every one had to stop doing things that ONLY jews did, The Sabbath was the mark that set the Jews apart from EVERY one else. after 1,260 years of that how many people was keeping Sabbath. only those who would die for it.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, he made it, it is His exclusively, it is His day, for every other day he created something, but on Sabbath he created REST. a special time to be with him. every one like to think of sabbath as a burden and yoke. i dont know how the came to this conclusion. 9 of the 10 commandments say thou shall not and the only one that say remember to keep it, that give us rest to be with him, not only us but every thing we own (that is community), it is to permeate every aspect of life. it is a distinguishing mark just like in old times.
If you can show me what was wrong with the Sabbath then I maybe able to understand the change, i know you are thinking that Jesus rose on Sunday and that is true. but the scripture does not tell us to keep Sunday because he rose on it. the scriptures does tell us how to commemorate his resurrection but it is not by keeping sunday, it is by baptism the scriptures say.

but we have not got to this question yet, we will cover this on question 9, but for now lets just keep the topic focus for now please. we are covering question 1. Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven?
can we be saved by mary, the saints or any other mediam.

thank you and may God bless and keep you.

 

[jmcrae]

Well i dint know the difference between infallible and impecable.

“Infallible” means that he can’t teach falsely. What we believe is that the Pope is infallible when he is speaking “ex cathedra” (in an official capacity, and with the intent to teach the whole Church) on the subjects of faith and morals. We do not believe that he is an oracle of God, however, and we don’t believe that he has any kind of special prophetic powers.

To give an example. say we somehow ended up with a Pope who had no education on the subject of relgion, and suppose he were given an examination paper testing his knowledge of the subjects of faith and morals. The Pope would remain “infallible” (without error) simply by not filling in any of the answers that he didn’t know for certain to be true, and only filling in the answers that he actually knew.

“Impeccable” means that he cannot sin. We don’t believe that the Pope, or anyone else alive today on the earth, is without sin.

Many Protestants are under the impression that we think the Pope is without sin, so they spend a great deal of time looking up all the times when a Pope sinned, as if this is meant to prove something. Guess what, we already know that they sin; this is not news to us. In fact we have a little inside joke; we say that we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Sinners.

well i’m not 100% sure about other religions but i know that Adventist did not keep Sabbath (Saturday) until after 1844.

This is when the Seventh Day Adventist Church was founded by Ellen White, was it not?

but from the time of Adam until today there have always been a remnant that keep Saturday. but it was never eradicated from the earth.

From Adam until Moses, there was no law requiring anyone to keep the Sabbath.

From Moses to Christ, the law was to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, but when Jesus rose from the dead on the Sunday, the day of rejoicing in the Lord became Sunday, as we see in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, they broke bread (they celebrated Mass) on Sundays.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I never said I was going to read the whole catechism, have you read the whole thing yet?

Yes, actually, I have read the entire catechism from cover to cover. I would encourage anyone who is remotely interested in what the Church teaches to do the same whether he/she is Catholic or not.

You will notice that I was a Seventh Day Adventist, born and raised. I attended Andrews University and my minor was in Religion. If you are interested in talking to several Catholics who converted from SDAism I would encourage you to stop by the blog Seventh Day Adventism to Roman Catholic.

 

[Philthy]

Hi Philthy I must say that is an interesting name lol.
I don’t mean to sound rude but please keep your sarcasm out of the discussion. I never said I was going to read the whole catechism, have you read the whole thing yet? I know how to investigate a topic thank you very much.

 

[estesbob]

Yes please point me in the right direction. I must admit that it is not clear what that means to you. if you can clear this up to me i would greatly appreciate it.
please tell me what it is to you and then a link or something to verify it. the reason why i’m asking for your explanation is because if i just read the link, judging by things so far i may con to a different conclusion. so in order to not wats time reading something 2 times just give me your explanation so i can have something to go on. thank you

The Pope is infallible only when speaking on matters on faith and Moral and only when he speaks ex-cathedra-he has done this twice.

Catholic Doctine rests on a htree legged stool:

Is it supported by Scripture
Is it supported by Tradition
is it supported by the teachings of the magestrium

Well i dint know the difference between infallible and impecable. first time i herd the term.
like i say, please put it in plain words before you give a link. most people like to give you links to something that thy have never read or assumes it say something. so please read it first before recommending it.

Again infallible refers only to ex cathedra statments of the Pope on matters of fatih and Morals. Impeccable means sinelss and the Pope is not impeccable in any way shape or form. Pope john paul II went to confession at least once a week, for example.

well i’m not 100% sure about other religions but i know that Adventist did not keep Sabbath (Saturday) until after 1844. but from the time of Adam until today there have always been a remnant that keep Saturday. but it was never eradicated from the earth.
we tend to believed that the Sabbath was for the Jews, not only catholic but all major religion think that. but let me ask you one question. was Adam and Eve Jews? the Sabbath was from the beginning.

Well i go to Church every day BUT Sunday but then Catholics believe that Satuday evening is part of the Sabbath. I dont understand why the Sunday sabbath is such a sticking point for Seventh Day adventists

Jesus himself Give it to them. In the beginning was the word, and the word was God, by him all things were made. and that word became flesh and dwelt among us.
so at the beginning Jesus rested on the sabbath, at his death he rested on the Sabbath, and Isaiah 66 say that we will worship on Sabbath after we get to Heaven.
but we are not at question 9 yet.

Chiristians have clebrated the Sabbath on Sunday almost from the Christ rose from the dead on

regarding what you said about tradition… I was told the term Dark Ages is ofensive but i dont have any other way of refering to it. If you have any other term for that period in church histry me let me know so i can use it. for now i will just say from 538 - 1798 every person that believed different from what the church believed was done in might add that they were mostly Sabbath keepers. you must remember that back then people really hated the Jews and if you kept Sabbath you were considered a Jew. so in order to escape persicution every one had to stop doing things that ONLY jews did, The Sabbath was the mark that set the Jews apart from EVERY one else. after 1,260 years of that how many people was keeping Sabbath. only those who would die for it.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, he made it, it is His exclusively, it is His day, for every other day he created something, but on Sabbath he created REST. a special time to be with him. every one like to think of sabbath as a burden and yoke. i dont know how the came to this conclusion. 9 of the 10 commandments say thou shall not and the only one that say remember to keep it, that give us rest to be with him, not only us but every thing we own (that is community), it is to permeate every aspect of life. it is a distinguishing mark just like in old times.

Again I do not understand the obsession of the Seventh Day Adventists on Saturday being the “sabbath”.

 

[dnelson001]

You would be wrong. First off, the reference of “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” is not to the pope, but to Christ. There is nothing anywhere that says the pope is equal to God. These types of lies are created by those disinterested in the truth and with unholy motives - dont trust them!!! Please provide a link to your source!

ok i found another source for this statement from The Catholic concordance
do a search for kings. you will find the qoute on page 234.
so as you can see it is there.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

ok i found another source for this statement from The Catholic concordance
do a search for kings. you will find the qoute on page 234.
so as you can see it is there.

Dnelson:

The link takes us to the quote, “Note that the Christian emperor by virtue of his rulership is the vicar of Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords.”

Please look closely at the sentence structure here. “The King of kings and Lord of lords” is modifying Christ, it is not modifying the vicar. For example, I am the assistant of Jeff Bratko, the Chief Steward and Vice President of AFGE Local 704. Clearly I am not saying that I am the Chief Steward and Vice President. Equally clearly, neither is this quote saying that the vicar of Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I am trying to answer all the questions of a gentleman I met recently. He is a good man of faith and comes from the Seventh Day Adventist Church. He is seeking the truth and has asked me questions over the past 2 months or so. Recently he sent me a list and I am unable to get to them right away so I was hoping maybe bringing him here to the forums may help him get more of his answers. If you answer please leave your source as he likes to learn from the source and not someones opinion. Thank you guys!!!

1. Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven?

No - I know there is, & that the Holy Roman Church teaches there is ​

1. Do you believe that the Catholic Church teaches that YOU are God and Christ?

No, no, no &…no. IOW: No. Did I say “No” ? The answer is “No”, anyway - which means “No” ​

1. Do you believe that the pope follows the Holy Scripture?

Clarify question, please ? Scripture had nothing to say on which Apostle should be Apostle to the Gentiles; many matters within the jurisdiction of the Pope have also to be attended to, without benefit of Scripture. Scripture has nothing to say about how many priests are needed in Africa; just as it says nothing of how many missionaries SDAs need in Africa.​

1. Do you believe that the pope has the power to change time and laws and even the precepts of Christ?

Some: yes; others, not​

1. Do you believe that Sunday is the Mark of the Catholic Church?

The four marks or notes of the Church are mentioned in the Creed: Sunday is not one of them​

1. Do you believe the Church is above the Word of God?

No​

1. Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? And who sits on the judgment seat with God?

As to the first question: it depends on whether one looks at the OT or the NT.​

As to the second: nobody AFAIK - the Throne of Christ is at the right hand of the Father’s.

1. Can Christianity and evolution merge?

If that means, “Are they compatible ?”, Yes. The answer depends on what the question means. No hybrid mixture of faith with science is possible, for that would ruin both of them; it would be bad from every POV.​

1. Does the word of God give us any indication to change the Sabbath to Sunday?

Yes.​

1. What church is the only church in the whole world that follows the Bible and the Bible alone?

Sorry, I’ll have to pass on that one. Is there a prize for the right answer ?​

1. Why did the reformation fail or loss at the council of Trent?

Try reading Imbert de la Tour, or Hubert Jedin, or some other proper historian. A “quickie” answer is impossible. Does it matter ?​

1. From whom did the church get its authority?

Some Jewish character - called Jesus, IIRC.​

1. Did God tell the pope to bring all the pagans symbols and ornaments?

Buzzzz !!! You are the weakest link: because that is a loaded question, of the “Have you stopped eating your wife yet ?” variety. And it is not at all clear what is meant by “pagans symbols and ornaments”.​

1. Who has more authority? God or the church?

How about - God ? It’s God’s Church, after all.​

1. Do you believe that the church sees itself as baptize paganism?

I know fine well it doesn’t.​

1. Does the priest have more power than God?

Priests, like everything else that is not God, are created - by God. So the answer is not “Yes”. See answer to number 17.​

1. Does the church teach that the pope is Jesus Christ Himself?

Not being completely mad, the Church does not Why - ought it do so ? That would be theologically awkward​

1. Does the Church want the USA to be identacle to her government?

Question not understood, sorry​

1. Do you believe that priest should join Masonic Lodges?

No personal opinion on the matter - the Church forbids Catholics to do so​

1. Did the Bible or Peter change the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday?

The change is recorded in the NT, but is unlikely to have been the work of any one person. ​

I don’t think there is any Biblical basis for adding to the Jewish Scriptures; & there is no list of NT books, unless it’s in Romans 17 or John 22 or Ephesians 7, perhaps. You could always try Matthew 29

1. Who is responsible for the big bang theory?

​

1. What bible did the Catholic Church use in the dark ages?

In the West, the Latin Vulgate, mostly - but the question needs to be more precisely asked​

1. Can the Pope do everything that God can do?

Of course not. But that is not what the question means. The Pope can do a great many things as Pope, but the extent of Papal authority is defined by its purpose, which is the building-up of the Church of God. Again, more precision is needed.​

All of these answers need far more detail & explanation - that’s what comes of having a religion that can’t be summarised on the back of a packet of Rice Krispies.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Dude, this is like 20 different threads! Many of these questions don’t seem to have much to do with the Church (“Who is responsible for the Big Bang Theory?”). Others are loaded questions (“Do you believe the Church is above the Word of God?”). Some don’t make any sense (“Do you believe that Sunday is the Mark of the Catholic Church?”). And finally, some are pretty insulting to even ask (“Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? And who sits on the judgment seat with God?”…Does he think Catholics aren’t Christian?).

But, alas, I cannot resist answering questions, so I will do so in my next post.

“Cannot resist” ? LOL ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi every body.
May God bless you all in you labors.
I am the guy that asked Mr. Cox the questions. I asked these questions because I found that most Catholics are not informed as to what they believe. I do not say that disrespectfully, I am a very respectful person and I would like to be treated that way. I had asked Mr. Cox if he could give me quotations for his response so I could look it up. These few months I have found a lot of things but it is not what you guys are telling me.
I was looking for some quotes that I could look up to see for myself if it is so. What I was looking for was sources from prominent catholic authors, priest (that has something to do with the Vatican) the reason for that is because if he does not have anything to do with the Vatican he most likely will say the same thing you are saying, and that is not what the high church officials says. They should know.
If you have something that contradicts what I have found please make sure it comes from credible officials.
All of the sources that I am quoting are high and public officials of the church that I don’t think any Good Catholic can discredit.
Thank you very much and God bless.

These are the answer that I have found.
If I misunderstood anything in my post please point them out to me but not with personal opinions. Please give me something I can verify. Thank you.

Salvation is by Mary – that is what Pope Pius IX said:

1. … Great indeed is Our trust in Mary. The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God.[1] Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and His Church,[2] Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assaults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin.

Pius IX was familiar with the teaching of St.Louis de Montfort’s “True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin”, paragraph 14 of which says:​

• 14.** With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing**, since he alone can say, “I am he who is”. Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them.

(My emphasis) So what the Pope says about her, has to be taken in its proper context. As a priest offering Mass, it is impossible that he could have been unaware of the infinite distance between God, and even the holiest of creatures. They have nothing in common, because God is not a creature, but the “Creator of all things, visible and invisible”. Mary looks great only if God is ignored. Since Catholics are surrounded by reminders of God’s greatness, we have many safeguards against the sin of idolatry, such as the Mass, & the Communion of Saints. It is Catholics, the venerators of Mary, who believe in the Deity of her Divine Son - & Protestants, who have so largely put devotion to her away from them, who are forgetting that He is True God & true man

We know of what we speak: because we are the ones with the devotion.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Personal note: “Jesus is who was to crash the head of the serpent, not Mary. Genesis 3:15 says: it shall bruise thy head and thou shall bruise HIS heel. Not HER heel.
Also Jesus and God the father is depicted as angry and eager to hurt us if Mary does not stop them. But Jesus said: At that day ye shall ask in my name: an I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. (St. John 16:26, 27) he does not have to save us from the father because the Father loves us also. Do you think that God the Father sent Jesus to die for us because he wants to hurt us? No it is because he loves us as much as he loves his son. We will rain in heaven as sons of God with our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. that is what the bible is all about.”

1. And likewise in our own day, Mary, with the ever merciful affection so characteristic of her maternal heart, wishes, through her efficacious intercession with God, to deliver her children from the sad and grief-laden troubles, from the tribulations, the anxiety, the difficulties, and the punishments of God’s anger which afflict the world because of the sins of men. Wishing to restrain and to dispel the violent hurricane of evils which, as We lament from the bottom of Our heart, are everywhere afflicting the Church, Mary desires to transform Our sadness into joy. The foundation of all Our confidence, as you know well, Venerable Brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.[3]
2. St. Gregory, Pope, de Exposit. in libros Regum.
3. St. Bernard, Serm. in cap. XII Apocalyps.
4. St. Bernard, In Nativit. S. Mariae de Aquaeductu.
   (On the Immaculate Conception of Mary), Encyclical of Pope Pius IX, February 2, 1849.
   Learn more: hol.com/~mikesch/mary.htm

Those of us who are converts don’t need web-pages to tell us what the objections to devotion to the the BVM are ​

Personal note: I’m sory it was not my intention to sound insulting. it was not my intention. please forgive me. the question was base on what i found.

“For the son of God became man so that we could become God.” “The only begotten son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumes our nature, so that he, might make men Gods.” Page 129
“Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ” page 228
Catechism of the Catholic Church (New York: Image Books. 1995 edition)

Jesuit catechism
Q. what if the Holly scripture commands one thing and the pope another contrary to it?
A. The holly scripture must be thrown aside.

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It is in the highest degree unlikely that a catechism would for one moment contain a sentence such as “The holly [sic] Scripture must be thrown aside.”. Particularly as the question asked is one of canon law & theology, & not the sort of question with which a catechism would be likely to deal. A reference or two would help.​

References to the CCC should be given by paragraph - the pages numbers vary, according as this or that edition from this or that publisher is quoted. Those quotations say no more than St Peter says in 2 Peter 1.4:

• 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
  To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
• 2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
• 3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
• 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
• 5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge…

Devotion to Mary, and quotations like that above, may make more sense if it is borne in mind that Mary is perfectly redeemed in every frespect, & has no will other that to will what pleases her Son. This is because hers, is in absolutely perfect conformity & union with His. She would not be in Heaven, were it not. What is wrongly said of Christ - that He and His Father are one in purpose, but not in Deity - is true of all the Saints, & pre-eminntly true of her: & all this has its source in the Grace of God; not in her.

 

[dnelson001]

Hey Dnelson!

I am so glad you started with a Question.

Let me start by telling you a little bit of my Background. I am a recent Convert to Catholicism. I converted from a Protestant Baptist background and I have never looked back.

I belevie the answer to your Question is this.

Do you believe that the holy Catholic Church teaches that there is one way to get to heaven? Yes, because it does.

Jesus is the Way the truth and the Life. NO ONE comes to the father but by him.

There is no other name by which man is saved.

So the Answer is, is there only one way? Yes.

Hi Dchsknight.
Verry pleased to meet you.
you belive exactly what i believe. i’m glad you see things that way, that is what the Bible teaches. I am 1000% with you on this one.

Now that way is highly debated. I mean look at all the different Protestant Denoms and then there is Mormons and SDA and JW and Masons, ETC.

Now i have a question for you. Where did all those religion come from? Apart from SDA and JW (I am assuming Jews)
All major religion today came from the Catholic church and the bible says they must go back. So I predict that EVERY SINGLE religion on the face of this planet will go back to the Mother Church if the bible is correct.
You see there is one unbreakable chain that bines them all to her and they have to obey her, what else can they do?
That chain is SUNDAY.
Now lets talk about mason. Almost every simple in a Masonic lodge you can finds it in the Catholic Church, who was first? Masons or the Catholic Church? The church was first. So where did Masons get there Symbols?
The Masonic Logo is in one of the main churches in the Vatican. I don’t remember the name of the church right now but I can get that for you if you if you would like to verify that some day. I’m at work right now and I don’t have that data. I’m stealing time from my lunch break right now to post.
I don’t know much about Mormons but I think they also keep Sunday if I’m not mistaken. They too will find there way back, but time will have to prove that to you.
Protestant churches claims to follow the bible and the bible alone. But what did the pope tell all the protestant churches?

We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in the Bible.

THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
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(Under the Blessings of Pope Plus XI)

I’m guessing that you put SDA, Mormons and Masons together to say that we are some kind of a cult. We are a cult for following the Bible.

You came out of your church to join the Mother church because you have no other option. She is the Mother church and she will gather her scattered flocks. But this question is number 10. Let’s stick to number 1 for now.

This is how i see it from my 24 years of Protestantism. Jesus/God, because they are the same person, Set up only One church. The Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, Christ is in the Eucharist and Eucharist is only in the Catholic Church. IT has been this way for over 2000 Years. ALSO Gamaliel, the Pharisee at the Trail of John and Peter or James Peter, cant remember who the other guy was with Peter, said If this (Christanity) is of God we cant not stop it.

Only One Church has Preserved since Christ Crucifixion and that is the Catholic Church. Since this is the case( you can argue all you want but History and the Bible backs it up) No other church besides the Catholic church has Christ. Now can Christ save people outside the Church? yes, he can do what ever he wants. but he did set some guidelines down. Confessions, Eucharist, Baptism, etc, and he did say, If you love me you will Obey.

From that i can asume you dont read your bible anymore. i have a question for you.
how many times does the BIBLE say that jesus was offerred up for our sins?
where in the bible does it say that a preast can take the life of Jesus EVERY Mass?

If you don’t Obey what he said, No amount of Faith will save. you have to Obey. If you want to be put under the New Covenant you must Follow the Guidelines set of the Covenant.

Amen. I’m with you 1000 % on this one as well. but judging from your post above i dont thing you understand what you just said.
I’m asuming that you think that the old covenant save us by works? not true.
God promised Abraham a land flowing with milk and hony right? did he posed the Land? did God lie to him? no. Abraham by faith belived God. God said by thy seed, not seeds, he said seed will all nations be blessed, he knew that by him the redeemer would come and he actualy saw Jesus himself. Jesus said: Abrajam saw my days and rejoiced.
the sacrifices of animals could not save us from sin if they did not know what it represented. every time they sacrified an animal it was for them to know that that lamb represented some one. the Jews forgot that. God visible presence no longer came down to the temple in Jesus time. it was because his presence would have distroind them all. God would be santifaid in all that come near him, remember what happend to the sons of Aaron? they did something that God had forbid and they paid for it. and day we will all stand and explain to him why we chose to do something he did not asked us to do. and why did not do soemthing he expresly commanded us to do.

 

[dnelson001]

Hey Dnelson!

So does the Church teach there is only one way, Yes, Christ. but you have to do what he said and that is in only one place, The Catholic Church. The full truth of Christ is here in his home, the Catholic Church and no were else.

You have to do what he said. can you tell me what did he say? Show me in the bible what he said?
you quote the bible whenever it suit your purpose, but if i say anything from the bible I’m an heretic. the playing field is really not leveled in this respect.
Do you know what it is that separates the Bible from every other book in the world?
it is not because it tells us that Jesus came and died for us, it is not because he had 12 disciples, not because it tells us how we got hear, everything you know, everything you read in the bible would be useless and worthless if not for one thing.
would you like to know what that is?
Prophecy
the old testament sanctuary maps out in high and vivid detail the entire ministry of Jesus. i mean with sublime accuracy. he is the priest, the lamb, the lamp, the light, the bread, basin, the incense, the high priest, everything in the sanctuary he was. that is prophecy.
his birth was prophesied thousands of years in advance, the circumstances, the virgin birth, where he would come from, what he would be called, how long his ministry would last, what they would do with his clothes, how he would dies, how he would live, to who he would preach, and all of this with 10000% of accuracy.
That is what set it in a class all by itself. He give 10 commandments that are perfect in every way, ever good government are based on them. But there is one commandment that is exclusively His and His alone. And he told us to remember it.
But that is the only one we are bent on rejecting. Just think about it. Why do we have seven days?
How come it was never changed? Not that people did not try. But it was preserve.
Why do we have the bible, only in heaven we will understand how dip the conspiracy goes against this book.
This Book of books predicts world events in successions. All who want to know what is going to happen can know. God is our teaches not man. The bible says cursed is the man that put his trust in another man. The bible says in that day no one will save any one else but himself. you canot seperate the old testament from the new or the new from the old.
if you only takes the new testament then we would not know who Jesus was. and if we only use the old testament like the Jews then who are we waiting on?
they are the 2 olive tre that was dead and God resurected them but that is a deferent topic.

this is what i believed and how i belive it. God is so God

may God bless and keep ypu is my prayers.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

“The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.”
Decretal De Translat. Espiscop. Cap

That is a matter of canon law. It was not clear that the question was about an issue of canon law, rather than of some other matter, such as doctrine. The degree of precision of the question, affects the answer people are likely to give. It is not even clear what is being quoted: a Papal decision ? A condemned position ? A canonist’s theory ? Decretals are legal instruments, and cannot be quoted with out reference to precise context, as the context of whatever is quoted alters its meaning considerably.​

“The King do no wrong” was a maxim in English law until 1947. It does not mean that the English believed in the immaculate sinlessness of the Sovereign, or that He was identified with God, or was deified, or was canonised by virtue of being crowned - it meant that the the Monarch could not be sued. So with language about the Pope - it cannot be picked out of context, because its context gives its meaning.

BTW: most people tend to be rather touchy if they think that they are being asked trick questions.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act… the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters”
Letter, Oct. 28, 1895, from C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons

What a US cardinal says has no weight here in the UK. More to the point: the use of the word “mark”, does not make Sunday a mark of the Church in the theological sense. It is not. Words can be used in more than one sense - as is the case here.​

“But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.”
James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

He’s overstating his case - we do sanctify Holy Saturday. Otherwise, he’s right.​

Sunday is our MARK of authority… The church is above the bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”
Catholic Record. September 1, 1923

Words can be used in more than one sense…​

Jesuit Catechism
Q. Who is the Pope?
A. He is the vicar of Christ, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords and there is but one judgment-seat belonging to God and the Pope.

Note: if he sits with God and equal with God i would say he is a God?

The last half of that is in a sense & a up to a point true, within limits - but this needs explaining. FWIW, civil authority is also of divine origin - it doesn’t follow that kings & presidents are God. Why should it be true of the Pope ?​

Some evidence that that is from a genuine Catechism would help…

“Humani Generis,” John Paul wrote, “considered the doctrine of ‘evolutionism’ as a serious hypothesis, worthy of a more deeply studied investigation…Today…new knowledge leads us to recognize that the theory of evolution is more than a hypothesis.” Pius was skeptical of evolution but tolerated study and discussion of it; the statement by John Paul reflects the church’s acceptance of evolution. He did not, however, diverge at all from Pius on the question of the origin of man’s soul: that comes from God, even if “the human body is sought in living material which existed before it.”
time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,985444,00.html

Personal Note: I have read some post on different web sites that states that people misunderstood the pope words. That can happen sometimes, and it is clearly stating that, it is a possibility. Every one can try to explain what he meant to say all they want but the fact of the mater is that He said it, not them. From what I can gather, that statement created quit a stir in the community. So we can’t say that He was not aware of the implications. If there was a misunderstanding He should have corrected it. I don’t thing it would have cost anything to correct that and set the record strait. I think he meant exactly what he said.
Well evolution and creation is 2 totally opposite religion. that’s right: evolution is a religion. You would need to have more faith to believe in evolution than what you would need to believe in creation.

Creation teaches that death came after sin. For evolution to occur, something must die. And if things were dying before sin then God is a liar.

Psalm 33:6, 9 says:
By the word of the lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
For he speak, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.

It stood fast, there is nothing fast about Evolution.
May I humbly respectfully recommend that you read what evolution teaches before trying to put those 2 religions in the same box.
Christianity teaches that man came from an intelligent creator; Evolution teaches we came from rain falling on a rock. Both require faith to believe in them.
Two very, very different religions.

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Scripture has no bearing on the matter​

 

[Dchsknight]

First Dnelson, dont ever assume anything about me. Second i had a choice, and i Choose to follow the truth that God put down for me.

another point I read my Bible as often as I can.

I am also not apart of a cult because I don’t follow the Bible, I Follow God. And just you dont come back, Sola Scripture is a lie from the devil never has and never will be apart of the bible.

The things that Jesus said “you must eat my Flesh and Drink my Blood, or you have no life in you”. Jesus then Showed the Apostles how to do that at the Last Supper when he instituted the Eucharist.

No where ever does a Priest take the life of Christ at mass.

Personally you have some pretty messed up views of the Church.

and no JW does not mean Jews, it means Jehovah’s Witnesses…

Masons have never and never will be apart of the Church. Masonic Lodges are a Cult Straight from the Pit of Hell, and they take the Symbols of our Holy Acropolis called the Catholic Church and Twist them to their Wicked rituals and ceremonies.

 

[dnelson001]

Hi jmcrae please to meet you.

“Infallible” means that he can’t teach falsely. What we believe is that the Pope is infallible when he is speaking “ex cathedra” (in an official capacity, and with the intent to teach the whole Church) on the subjects of faith and morals. We do not believe that he is an oracle of God, however, and we don’t believe that he has any kind of special prophetic powers.

To give an example. say we somehow ended up with a Pope who had no education on the subject of relgion, and suppose he were given an examination paper testing his knowledge of the subjects of faith and morals. The Pope would remain “infallible” (without error) simply by not filling in any of the answers that he didn’t know for certain to be true, and only filling in the answers that he actually knew.

“Impeccable” means that he cannot sin. We don’t believe that the Pope, or anyone else alive today on the earth, is without sin.

thank you very much for clarifying Infallible and Impeccable from the understanding of the church.
so Infallible is he cannot make a mistake and Impeccable is that he cannot sin.
well i don’t believe He cannot sin. that would be silly, i don’t see how anyone could believe such nonsense. Catholics included.
what is an infallible document? can you please list them all for me?
when the church issues a decree, is it Infallible, Impeccable or both?

Many Protestants are under the impression that we think the Pope is without sin, so they spend a great deal of time looking up all the times when a Pope sinned, as if this is meant to prove something. Guess what, we already know that they sin; this is not news to us. In fact we have a little inside joke; we say that we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Sinners.

that is an interesting jock.

This is when the Seventh Day Adventist Church was founded by Ellen White, was it not?

no my friend that is not correct either. it was not formaly for until 1863. in 1844 they wer called Adventist but it was not a denomination. it was formed from all different denomination. it was not until 1844 that Ellen White had her first vision. and it was years after that they started to keep the Sabbath of the bible. and at first she rejected the new found truth. but after careful study of it, it was accepted.
she was not the first one to keep the Sabbath, it was explained to her by Bates if i’m not mistaken.
so there was no Sabbath keepers in 1844. you can look it up hear:
note that i always try to give sources that are neutral and not from an SDA source when ever possible.
i believe if i’m right i don’t need to go to our sources, i can prove every thing from history. if God is with me then every thing will come into place as he see fit and if not my cause is lost.
If i cannot explain what i believe in a logical way that even a child can understand, then i don’t know what i’m talking about and most likely I am deceived. Jesus never used big words that only he could understand. sometimes he used parables because the pepople was not able to hear his word. but thy still got a lesson from it, but he would allway explain it to his disciples not because they were smarter or better than every one else but because thy had more faith in him. and at times he could not tell them for lac of faith. remember when he told them i have much that i would like to tell you but you cannot receive it now. he had to leave it until after the resurrection when they had remove that huge wall that was in front of their eyes. they were blinded by the fact that jesus was suppose to set up an earthly kingdom and rule. they could not think of anything else. many times he tried to tell them but they could not put 2 and 2 together. after the death all of their hopes was gone, and the wall was torn down. now they were ready to receive everything that he had to tell them. after his resurrection he spent 40 days teaching them what his mission was.

From Adam until Moses, there was no law requiring anyone to keep the Sabbath.

well that is not correct iether. was there a law telling cane and able to sacrifice a lamb? this was long before Moses.
why did Abraham pay tithes to Melchizedek? this was long before Moses.
why did all the patriarch offer sacrifices?
when Moses went to Egypt to bring them out why did he make them keep Sabbath? this is before they came out of Egypt. look up Exodus 5:5, look up the word that was translated REST in the Hebrew. now tell me why did he make them do that? were did he learn to keep the sabbath before God give the 10 commandments? he sure did not learn that in Egypt.
the thing is that he did not learn about the Sabbath in Egypt. He learn that after He ran from Egypt. He learn that in the wilderness.

so now let me try to answer the question as best as i can.
if you had a child and every morning he saw you get up and wash your face and brush your teeth. and then he started to want to do the same. you did not tell him to do so, but by your example he started to do so. he wants to be like his Dady.
now after years of routine one day you starts to notice he is not washing his face before leaving the house. you come to him and say: don’t you know you have to wash your face before you leave the house? and he says no, you never told me that.
you never told him before because there was no need to tell him to do something that he was always doing.
now tell me what would be the first thing you will tell him in the morning? Remember to wash your face before leaving the house.
that is exactly what God said in the forth commandments. remember denotes that it was said before.

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