Can I get some help with these questions

[dnelson001]

Hi jmcrae please to meet you.

From Moses to Christ, the law was to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, but when Jesus rose from the dead on the Sunday, the day of rejoicing in the Lord became Sunday, as we see in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, they broke bread (they celebrated Mass) on Sundays.

I understands what you are saying but the problem is that there is no were in the bible that tells us to do that.
you claims to get your authority from the bible, well not really, but you will still use it if it serves your purpose or helps prover your point.
i say “not really” because i read somewhere that the authority does not come from a book but from the church. that is what i read.

OK, God bless and take care

 

[Dchsknight]

Hi jmcrae please to meet you.

I understands what you are saying but the problem is that there is no were in the bible that tells us to do that.
you claims to get your authority from the bible, well not really, but you will still use it if it serves your purpose or helps prover your point.
i say “not really” because i read somewhere that the authority does not come from a book but from the church. that is what i read.

OK, God bless and take care

Yeah you are right, Our Authority does not come from the bible. Now where will you ever find that it should come from the bible. The authority comes from teh Church because that is where God placed the Authority. So when the apostles celebraited the Lord’s day on Sunday, because Christ Resurrected and beat death, They had the authority to change it.

Why are you so bent on this whole sabbath thing. You know that is what eh Pharisees did too. and Jesus attacked them for it. He said “men were not made for the sabbath but the sabbath made for men.” consistently Jesus ‘worked’ on the sabbath. Not only do you have a whacked veiw of the church, your view of the Sabbath is pretty whacked as well!

 

[Philthy]

ok i found another source for this statement from The Catholic concordance
do a search for kings. you will find the qoute on page 234.
so as you can see it is there.

It is there, but as I have already explained to you the attribute of being the “king of kings” is referring to Christ, not the pope.
“Note that the Christian emperor by virtue of his rulership is the vicar of Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords.”
Perhaps it would have been clearer to say: Note that the Christian emperor by virtue of his rulership is the vicar of Christ who is the King of kings and Lord of lords."
But that distinction can clearly be determined by the VERY NEXT SENTENCE in the text you provided - did you read it??? The very next sentence:
“Hence just as Christ is king of kings so all kings have something of the divine in their governing power and therefore reverence and obedience are due them.”

Anyhow, stick to the Catechism and you won’t have these problems.

 

[Philthy]

I understands what you are saying but the problem is that there is no were in the bible that tells us to do that.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi jmcrae please to meet you.

I understands what you are saying but the problem is that there is no were in the bible that tells us to do that.
you claims to get your authority from the bible, well not really, but you will still use it if it serves your purpose or helps prover your point.
i say “not really” because i read somewhere that the authority does not come from a book but from the church. that is what i read.

OK, God bless and take care

The CC does not base its authority on a book, but on a Person. The book - or the second division of it - witnesses to that Person, & to the results of that Person’s actions. It is a witness to “what Jesus said and did”, & to what the Apostles “said and did”. It is a witness - not an authority, except for those who came after the Apostles. The Mass is “in the Bible” - but the Mass is not based on the Bible; it is witnessed to by the Bible: specifically, by parts of the NT. If not a line of the NT had been written, we would still have the Mass. So we could (in principle) have the Mass without the Bible - just as, in fact, we do have the canon of the NT without the Bible; and the written NT of 27 inspired books. The only NT the NT mentions, is that in the Blood of Christ - but the NT says nothing whatever about an inspired canon of written books comprising an NT: that, is as post-Biblical a development as devotion to the BVM. By having a written NT of inspired books, those who do so are using against the CC what God has given to the CC for His Glory & its good; & in quoting the NT against the CC, they are relying on the very Tradition which they repudiate in theory.​

The CC’s use of the the Bible is both principled & consistent - it can look unprincipled, & inconsistent, if one does not know what principles govern the way in which the Church uses it.

It’s very important to realise that though the canon of the NT was settled by the CC, this did not amount to conferring inspiration on the books; that is not something the Church can do - what it did, was to discern the reality of an inspiration that was already a quality of those books by the action of God, Who is Alone the Primary Author of all the Books. An OT parallel: when Hilkiah the priest read the Law to King Josiah, the Law was not being given anything by either of them: they were recognising a Divine Power that came through it. In that sense, the Books are “self-evidencing” - but unless this evidencing is received as what it is, the Word of God written, the evidencing is without fruit: the evidencing needs witnessing - which is where the Church comes in: it canonised the Books because they impressed it as inspired. The Church’s authority is engaged in the handing on of its witness to the inspiration of the books, & in its using them: but not in inspiring them.

 

[Philthy]

:yawn:

 

[dnelson001]

First Dnelson, dont ever assume anything about me. Second i had a choice, and i Choose to follow the truth that God put down for me.

I wish you the very best with that, and i did not main to upset you. I’m sorry if i ofended you. it was not my intention. please accept my apoligies.

another point I read my Bible as often as I can.

I realy don’t know why, you just said it is useless to you. read your post bellow.

I am also not apart of a cult because I don’t follow the Bible, I Follow God. And just you dont come back, Sola Scripture is a lie from the devil never has and never will be apart of the bible.

“I follow God”. now that is some deep stuff right there. if it is not the God of the
Bible, then what God are you talking following?
you said you don’t follow the Bible but you follow God.
how do you know wich God you follow? you want to reject the authority of the bible that tells you there is a god that created every thing. it tells you his name, what he is like, what is his dominian, it tells you of his love, it tells yu what he hates, it shows you his mercies and compasion for us …
but you dont follow the bible. the church don’t follow the bible… tell me were do you get your authority from?
it is not good enough for yu to follow but it is good enough for you to claim you get your authority from it.
if you dont need to follow the bible then please tell me why are you part of the CC. if I ask you why the CC is the true church yu will quickly point out the bible that you dont need to follow.

The things that Jesus said “you must eat my Flesh and Drink my Blood, or you have no life in you”. Jesus then Showed the Apostles how to do that at the Last Supper when he instituted the Eucharist.

Jesus also said you must be born again. Do you take that literally too? I have heard of nuns with real blood in their mouth after the mass, hands and feet bleeding, Jesus Sacrifice was not enough to save us. They have to sacrifice themselves for us as well.

No where ever does a Priest take the life of Christ at mass.

this is why I say that most Catholics does not know what they believe.

1382 The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us.

“the sacrificial memorial in which the **sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated **and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood” to make it clear it means it is repeated every mass.

1088 “To accomplish so great a work” - the dispensation or communication of his work of salvation - “Christ is always present in his Church, especially in her liturgical celebrations. He is present in the Sacrifice of the Mass not only in the person of his minister, ‘the same now offering, through the ministry of priests, who formerly offered himself on the cross,’ but especially in the Eucharistic species. By his power he is present in the sacraments so that when anybody baptizes, it is really Christ himself who baptizes. He is present in his word since it is he himself who speaks when the holy Scriptures are read in the Church. Lastly, he is present when the Church prays and sings, for he has promised 'where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them.”’

“He is present in the **Sacrifice of the Mass **not only in the person of his minister, 'the same now offering, through the ministry of priests, who formerly offered himself on the cross,”

the mass is a sacrifice of Jesus all over again. who sacrifices him? the priest.
I’m not a Catholic and i know that. My friend you need to understand what you read.

Personally you have some pretty messed up views of the Church.

well i’m not shore i agree with you, but at least i have views. and that is why i’m here.

and no JW does not mean Jews, it means Jehovah’s Witnesses…

Jehovah’s Witnesses. i should have known that. well they are just as bad. jajaja:thumbsup:

Masons have never and never will be apart of the Church. Masonic Lodges are a Cult Straight from the Pit of Hell, and they take the Symbols of our Holy Acropolis called the Catholic Church and Twist them to their Wicked rituals and ceremonies.

you should take a look at question # 19 and then explain that to me again.
do you realy believe that a priest can do soemthing like that and still remain a preist if it was not lawful for him to do so?. come on, I’m not a Catholic and i can answer that.

 

[Dchsknight]

**
I realy don’t know why, you just said it is useless to you. read your post bellow.**
Your putting words in my mouth and you need to stop. I never said it was useless. My Authority is the God of the Old testament and New Testament, Jesus Christ also named, Eloheim, Jehovah Jirah/Neise, The name that is spelled out int he Tetragramaton letters, which is the four letters that make up the name of God that the Jews would not say, because they respected him so much and feared him. That is my Authority and not a Book. If a book is my Authority, then that is Idolatry because i have placed Higher value in a Book then Christ and if you understood just who Jesus was, Then you would Understand that the Bible is also the Authroity in spirit, because John 1:1 states In the Begining was the word, the word was with God and the Word was God. Then the Word became Flesh." So Bible=God=Jesus. Get over yourself.

Jesus also said you must be born again. Do you take that literally too? I have heard of nuns with real blood in their mouth after the mass, hands and feet bleeding, Jesus Sacrifice was not enough to save us. They have to sacrifice themselves for us as well.

Your on crack do you not understand what Jesus said by that. When he told Nicodemus that he must be born again, He was referring to the mark of the Covenant. WE know this because Nicodemus did not understand it and then in 1 John and in 1 Peter, they explain that Jesus meant the mark, Which for the New covenant, is Baptism, Through Baptism we are made new like being Born again, With Baptism we put to death the old man and put on the new by the renewing of our minds. Jesus’ sacrifice was enough. It is enough and always will be enough, if God chooses to visit the wounds of Christ on someone that is his business and not ours, who are you to question God?

1382 The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us.

And you say i dont understand My faith, Maybe you don’t understand how to read. But while you Bold “the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated”, you miss an awfully big part of that statement, " sacrificial memorial ". The Mass is a Memorial. Get it right. It is not a re-sacrifice of Jesus but remembering what he did as the Sacrificial lamb. The Passover lamb, the Fulfillment of the Law. WE remember it, because he said to remember it.

You are a typical protestant. You seek to Divide and destroy faith, Well my “Friend” you have just meet a catholic who will not put up with that Bullpoop. I said in my first post that i wanted to be kind in how i spoke and wrote about all this, You have just crossed the line, Prepare for war, Because that is obviously why you have come here. You which to pull out and twist what people say.

“Your words are as twisted and bent as an Old Woman” to quote Dennis Storhøi as Herger the Joyous from 13th Warrior.

 

[Dchsknight]

Priests don’t Join Masonic lodges and if they do. they are in mortal sin and mostly likly not apart of the Church…

 

[greggy53]

Just a thought, has anybody posted a list of questions to ask the SDA? I admit I haven’t read this entire thread so forgive me if it’s already been mentioned. I too have an aquaintance who is SDA and who started in on me the moment he found out I was Catholic. Since then I have taken time to study the history of our Faith, and the history of the SDA as well. I have learned much, and my faith has grown a lot as a result. The SDA produces prodigious amounts of anti- Catholic propaganda. They twist the truth to trap the unwary.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Just a thought, has anybody posted a list of questions to ask the SDA? I admit I haven’t read this entire thread so forgive me if it’s already been mentioned. I too have an aquaintance who is SDA and who started in on me the moment he found out I was Catholic. Since then I have taken time to study the history of our Faith, and the history of the SDA as well. I have learned much, and my faith has grown a lot as a result. The SDA produces prodigious amounts of anti- Catholic propaganda. They twist the truth to trap the unwary.

Greg:

The problem with asking SDAs questions is that as you say they twist the truth all out of recognition. Also they have different rules of interpretation and when all else fails, they quote their prophet E,G, White. You will notice that I have posted to DNelson twice on this thread and he ignores me entirely. He is probably afraid to engage a Catholic who used to be SDA.

In anycase, remember what Jesus said: Matthew 7:6
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

 

[greggy53]

Greg:

The problem with asking SDAs questions is that as you say they twist the truth all out of recognition. Also they have different rules of interpretation and when all else fails, they quote their prophet E,G, White. You will notice that I have posted to DNelson twice on this thread and he ignores me entirely. He is probably afraid to engage a Catholic who used to be SDA.

In anycase, remember what Jesus said: Matthew 7:6
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

I know what you mean. I tried to explain to my SDA friend that in order for us to communicate he has to understand that we Catholics don’t believe that the scriptures are the final authority. That is very difficult for them as the bible is all they have. So, when he says to me the Bible clearly states that we must celebrate Saturday as the Sabbath I tell him that the Church has the final say, not the Bible, and if the Church decreed that we should start going to Mass on Wednessday instead of Sunday Then I wiould submit to the lawful authority of Christ’s Church and go no Wed. Not thea the Church is ever going to do that, but It really fries their brain!

 

[dnelson001]

You are funny men. I like you.

**
I realy don’t know why, you just said it is useless to you. read your post bellow.**
Your putting words in my mouth and you need to stop. I never said it was useless. My Authority is the God of the Old testament and New Testament, Jesus Christ also named, Eloheim, Jehovah Jirah/Neise, The name that is spelled out int he Tetragramaton letters, which is the four letters that make up the name of God that the Jews would not say, because they respected him so much and feared him. That is my Authority and not a Book. If a book is my Authority, then that is Idolatry because i have placed Higher value in a Book then Christ and if you understood just who Jesus was, Then you would Understand that the Bible is also the Authroity in spirit, because John 1:1 states In the Begining was the word, the word was with God and the Word was God. Then the Word became Flesh." So Bible=God=Jesus. Get over yourself.

My friend i did not put anything in your mouth. what i said was what you said. what you said is what i understood. if you did not mean that then you should not have said it. i don’t read minds. you did not say that it was useless but that is what the statement meant.
I’m pointing out what you said and instead of clarifying it you want to pick a fight. that is what always happen when you think you are right and cannot answer a question.
frst you say:

I am also not apart of a cult because I don’t follow the Bible, I Follow God

and now you sau:

I never said it was useless. My Authority is the God of the Old testament and New Testament,

where did you come to know if this God that you follow? i have news for you. that Book as you call it, is what Gives God his authority.

Jesus also said you must be born again. Do you take that literally too? I have heard of nuns with real blood in their mouth after the mass, hands and feet bleeding, Jesus Sacrifice was not enough to save us. They have to sacrifice themselves for us as well.

Your on crack do you not understand what Jesus said by that. When he told Nicodemus that he must be born again, He was referring to the mark of the Covenant. WE know this because Nicodemus did not understand it and then in 1 John and in 1 Peter, they explain that Jesus meant the mark, Which for the New covenant, is Baptism, Through Baptism we are made new like being Born again, With Baptism we put to death the old man and put on the new by the renewing of our minds. Jesus’ sacrifice was enough. It is enough and always will be enough, if God chooses to visit the wounds of Christ on someone that is his business and not ours, who are you to question God?

I’m on crack. men you sure know how to make me lol . oh men, laughter is good for the soul.

He was referring to the mark of the Covenant

I have never read that either, can you tell me were you get that from. every thing you say sound like it was memorized and you are trying to put it all together.

Through Baptism we are made new like being Born again, With Baptism we put to death the old man and put on the new by the renewing of our minds. Jesus’ sacrifice was enough. It is enough and always will be enough,

Now you are talking, that is what baptism but about it being a mark that is maid up by you I think.
but then i might have read it too… tell you what you give me the text were it says that and i take it all back. that mark thing that is.
Baptism is a prerequisite if and only if you know about it. It is essential if the come to know it. And were does he comes to know it? The Bible.
A person can and will go to heaven without being baptize only if he did not know that God require it. Otherwise it would be a sin to him.

if God chooses to visit the wounds of Christ on someone that is his business and not ours, who are you to question God? /QUOTE]
I would must a certainly question that god. Hat is a god that is linked with pointless suffering of he creatures that he says he love. Who is this person suffering for? Is it for himself or other people? If it is for himself then god is punishing him. If for other people then Jesus sacrifice was not enough, we need to see it happen to other people.
I also notice that you don’t answer any of the questions I ask you. May be you don’t understand them or can’t answer them… I don’t know.
I just can’t get it in my head how someone can sit back and witness someone suffering and feel nothing but joy and admiration like that. May be I just don’t understand suffering the way you do.

1382 The Mass is… the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood…

Just so you know, because I perceive that you may want to make a big thing out of it. I did not change any of the meaning of the Catechism, just highlighted the part question.
Just so every one know what we are talking about. Just so there is no confusion about what we are referring to.

And you say i don’t understand My faith, Maybe you don’t understand how to read. But while you Bold “the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated”, you miss an awfully big part of that statement, " sacrificial memorial ". The Mass is a Memorial. Get it right. It is not a re-sacrifice of Jesus but remembering what he did as the Sacrificial lamb. The Passover lamb, the Fulfillment of the Law. WE remember it, because he said to remember it.

“Maybe you don’t understand how to read”. Oh men, this keeps getting better and better is there no end?
I feel like the English teacher. Let me break it down into simpler words so you can understand it. The text say: “The Mass is… the sacrificial memorial” please understand what that is saying. If the text had stop right there it would have been perfectly fine, but it does not stop there. The rest says: “in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated” if you understood what you read you will understand that it says the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated, not the sacrificial memorial. This is assuming you know the deference between memorial and perpetual. In the mass the priest suppose to say something and he turn the wine into the actual body and blood of Jesus. That is were the nuns with real blood in mouth comes in. it is to prove a point.
I don’t know why I’m explaining this to you, you should know this. If you still don understand it go ask you priest what it means.

[continue in next post]

 

[dnelson001]

You are a typical protestant. You seek to Divide and destroy faith, Well my “Friend” you have just meet a catholic who will not put up with that Bullpoop. I said in my first post that i wanted to be kind in how i spoke and wrote about all this, You have just crossed the line, Prepare for war, Because that is obviously why you have come here. You which to pull out and twist what people say.

You know if you think to say it, you said it in God’s sight right?
Honestly I am sorry if I am upsetting you. I know it sounds like I am belittling your intelligence the way I’m explaining things. It is not my intensions. What I’m trying to do is tell you what it says. You are trying to tell me what you assume it says. So I did not see any other choice but to break it down as much as I can.

“Your words are as twisted and bent as an Old Woman” to quote Dennis Storhøi as Herger the Joyous from 13th Warrior.

Funny guy.

 

[dnelson001]

please to meet you greggy53

Just a thought, has anybody posted a list of questions to ask the SDA? I admit I haven’t read this entire thread so forgive me if it’s already been mentioned. I too have an aquaintance who is SDA and who started in on me the moment he found out I was Catholic. Since then I have taken time to study the history of our Faith, and the history of the SDA as well. I have learned much, and my faith has grown a lot as a result. The SDA produces prodigious amounts of anti- Catholic propaganda. They twist the truth to trap the unwary.

that is why I’m here. you are the first one that actually though about asking me questions.
Catholics has preconceive ideas about Adventist and Adventist the same.
that is why I’m here. if you want to know what someone believe then you need to go to them. All I know about Catholics is what i have read and herd.
if you have questions for me to see what i believe then please bring them forth.
i can read all i want about a country, but it is not the same to actually go there.
i have asked many catholic questions and they all seams to understand a text differently.
even on this forum there people that say no to something and some that say yes.
what i have seen so far is the older members ten to agree at least partially with what i have found. and some well i guess they are giving their opinion as to what they think.
I welcome all your questions. for you to show me my error will have to know what i believe and i also will have to know what you believe. I’m having a little problem with that, because every one seams to have mixed belief.
there is a former Adventist on the forum that is a convert. She should have tome very interesting questions. i’m saying this because she found something better in the CC.
she I asume know what we believe so she must have some very good questions.

Thank you and God bless every one

 

[greggy53]

To the SDA: InS t John’s Apocalypse when St John says: 1: 10 I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

What day of the week was this, and how do you know what day it is?

Again in St John’s Apocalypse chapter 12.1,2 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.

Who, or what do the woman, the child, the dragon represent?

We will start with these and see if it is worth going from here.

 

[Philthy]

that is why I’m here. you are the first one that actually though about asking me questions.
Catholics has preconceive ideas about Adventist and Adventist the same.
that is why I’m here. if you want to know what someone believe then you need to go to them.

 

[estesbob]

please to meet you greggy53

**i have asked many catholic questions and they all seams to understand a text differently. **
even on this forum there people that say no to something and some that say yes.
what i have seen so far is the older members ten to agree at least partially with what i have found. and some well i guess they are giving their opinion as to what they think.
I

Nonsense.

 

[greggy53]

To the SDA: InS t John’s Apocalypse when St John says: 1: 10 I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

What day of the week was this, and how do you know what day it is?

Again in St John’s Apocalypse chapter 12.1,2 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.

Who, or what do the woman, the child, the dragon represent?

We will start with these and see if it is worth going from here.

Come on SDA, you don’t to have confer with your leaders over these two simple questions do you?

 

[twb1621]

please to meet you greggy53

that is why I’m here. you are the first one that actually though about asking me questions.
Catholics has preconceive ideas about Adventist and Adventist the same.
that is why I’m here. if you want to know what someone believe then you need to go to them. All I know about Catholics is what i have read and herd.
if you have questions for me to see what i believe then please bring them forth.
i can read all i want about a country, but it is not the same to actually go there.
i have asked many catholic questions and they all seams to understand a text differently.
even on this forum there people that say no to something and some that say yes.
what i have seen so far is the older members ten to agree at least partially with what i have found. and some well i guess they are giving their opinion as to what they think.
I welcome all your questions. for you to show me my error will have to know what i believe and i also will have to know what you believe. I’m having a little problem with that, because every one seams to have mixed belief.
there is a former Adventist on the forum that is a convert. She should have tome very interesting questions. i’m saying this because she found something better in the CC.
she I asume know what we believe so she must have some very good questions.

Thank you and God bless every one

You seem sincere, please take no offense to the following:

Let me ask you these questions and see where it takes you.

What is the Bible (basically)?
Who called for its formation?
By whom was it compiled and initially translated as the Bible?
Who determined the canons?
What was the intended use of the Bible?
Why was the Bible introduced?

If you know the answers to these questions then you have some basics as a foundation to grow from.