Can I say something about Mary the Mother of God....

[Pani_Rose]

I’ve been reading a lot of threads on the non catholic board - until a very very short while ago I wasn’t sure there was a God but now I am.

There seems to be a lot of discussioin about Mary as the Mother of God, whether she is a co-redeemer, if she stayed a virgin, if she had more children, and so on and if any of this can be found in the Bible, and if not, then the inference is it is man made tradition and therefore irrelevant, if not borderline idolatry. That’s my understanding of the two camps anyhow.

A lot of these discussions, even though I read them, go right over my head.

So I thought I would just share with you my actual experience of Mary, without any theology or scripture or tradition or anything else attached.

It’s just a few simple sentences of what actually, really, happened to me since comming onto these boards.

I did not know if there was a God.

I did not subscribe to the notion of sin.

I did not pray, go to church or anything else - why would I?

I believed we are all the architects of our own life.

I believed when we die - thats it! Game over.

A woman, who I never met before and don’t know, gave me a card with The Magnificat on it.

I read it, and it spoke to me.

I heard the words ‘‘Blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus’’ shortly afterwards.

This made me collapse and crumble. I SAW and FELT just how bad I was, had been, and the effects of my sinfullness on others. (it’s to do with abortion and the woman’s right to chose but I won’t bore you with details here)

It was like comming home to your mother, when you have been as bad as bad can be, and she holds you, and in that embrace, all you feel is love. No admonition, no scolding, no lecture on how bad you are and what a disappointment you are, no threats, no lectures, just a total and all consuming embrace of unconditional love.

And because of this I could see so clearly my sinfullness and badness and without hearing or feeling a word of admonition, I knew what I had to do - and I did it.

That’s why, reading the threads on co-redeemer - I have no issue with this concept. I wasn’t praying to God, I wasn’t praying to Jesus, I wasn’t praying to the Holy Ghost. I wasn’t praying at all.

But a woman came into my life, and She broke me, and made me look at the life I was living and the work I was doing, and I knew I had to stop. And I did. Where did I get the courage and strength to do it. From that Embrace !

My newly found belief in God has come through experiencing His Mother Mary.

If that’s what people mean by co-redeeming - then Mary is indeed co-redeemer with her son, Jesus.

That’s all.

Nothing profound or intellectually challenging. I have no Bible quotes or anything else to give you.

All I have to share is what has just happened to me, by God working through his Mother Mary.

Bruxilda.

WOW AND GLORY TO GOD! He does love his Mama, our Jesus does, she brings him all sorts of wonderful souls. THANKS BE TO GOD!

Would you share your story over on the Coming Home Network Forum? chnetwork.org/forums/

 

[JMJ_coder]

JMJ, why are you blaming me? I’m merely putting things into perspective for you.

No, you are trying to distort uninformed Catholics with your perverted teachings. You are speaking with a serpentine tongue and trying to draw souls from God.

…and what has this concern of yours to do with me?

It concerns me that you are 1) blaspheming against Jesus and His Mother and 2) trying to lead Catholics away from Jesus Christ.

Jesus is both true God and true Man. You cannot separate His natures. Mary is His Mother. The Mother of His humanity is (by virtue of the Hypostatic Union) the Mother of the whole Christ.

A good work for you to read is Saint Cyril of Alexandria - On the Unity of Christ. Here are some snippets (this is Pusey’s translation, so the language is a bit archaic - you can buy a more recent translation from SVS Press):

A. You say (I ween) Nestorius, for I understand, but I do not know, my friend, the actual state of his words: how does he say that the holy Virgin is not Mother of God?

B. She bare not (he says) God: for the Word was before her too, yea rather before every age and time, Co-eternal with God the Father.

A. They will therefore manifestly deny this too, that Emmanuel is God, and to no purpose as it seems, does the Evangelist interpret the name saying, Which is interpreted, With us is God, for thus did God the Father clearly affirm through the voice of the Prophet that He was to be called Who has been born of the holy Virgin after the flesh, as God Incarnate.

B. Yet it appears to them to be not so, but they would say that with us is God or the Word out of God, in the way of succouring us: for He hath saved all under heaven through him who was born of woman.

B. How then do we say that the Word WAS MADE flesh, preserving to It ever Unchangeableness and without-turning, as Its own and Essentially innate to It?

A. The all-wise Paul, the steward of His mysteries, the Priest of the Gospel preachings, will make it clear saying, He ye thus minded each one in yourselves according to what was in Christ Jesus also, Who being in the Form of God held not the being Equal to God a thing to seize, yet emptied Himself taking bondman’s form, MADE in likeness of men, and, found in fashion as a man, humbled Himself, MADE obedient unto death, the death of the Gross. For His Only-Begotten Word albeit God and out of God by Nature, the Brightness of the glory and the Impress of the Person of Him Who begat Him, WAS MADE man and that not turned into flesh, or undergoing commingling or mixture or ought else of such like, but rather abasing Himself unto emptiness, and for the joy set before Him despising shame and not dishonouring the poverty of the human nature. For He willed as God to render the flesh which is holden of death and sin, superior to both death and sin, and to restore it to what it was in the beginning, having made it His own, not (as some say) soulless but ensouled with intellectual soul: yet, not disdaining to go along the path hereto befitting, He is said to undergo a birth like ours, abiding what He was. For He has been born in wondrous wise according to flesh of a woman: for no otherwise was it possible that He being God by Nature should be seen by them on earth than in likeness of us, the Impalpable and without body, yet Who thought good to be made man and in Himself Alone to shew our nature illustrious in the dignities of Godhead: for He the Same was God alike and man, and in likeness of man, in that herewith He was also God, but in fashion as a man. For He was God in appearance as we, and in bondman’s form the Lord, for thus do we say that He was MADE FLESH.

Therefore do we affirm that the holy Virgin is also mother of God.

A. Hence if the opponents say that the holy Virgin ought to be called in no wise mother of God, but mother of Christ, they blaspheme openly and drive away Christ from being God and Son: for if they believe that He is really God, in that the Only-Begotten has been MADE as we, why do they shudder at calling her mother of God, who bare Him, I mean after the flesh?

 

[Truthfaithlove]

Maybe you don’t realize that Jesus is not just a diety with a human body. But Jesus emptied Himself and became man. All that comes with being a man, Jesus took upon himself. Mystery yes.

Jesus as man has a real Mother.

I’m not sure what the argument is.

The argument is this. God is a spirit that does not have a mother. Mary being the humble vessel that was used by God provided the host. God is God, God is not born by anybody.

Mary is a servant of God. Jesus is the name of the physical flesh that God used while He was on earth. It is not the flesh that makes Jesus God, it is the Spirit! And that spirit does not come from Mary.

.

 

[SimonArizona]

We are not talking about whether we need people to bring us the good news. Of course we do. Unless we preach, how can they hear? We are talking about the relationship that God WANTS with Man.

And that is a personal and direct relationship through Christ, and nobody else in between. No Mary and No Pope.

I agree that God wants a relationship with us personally. -The greatest love man will ever know. It is in the getting to and maintaining that relationship where others intercede in Christ for man. God uses man and all kinds of things to bring man closer to Himself.

All that Mary and the Saints are doing is bring us into a relationship with Christ which in turn is the way to the Father.

 

[Truthfaithlove]

I agree that God wants a relationship with us personally. -The greatest love man will ever know. It is in the getting to and maintaining that relationship where others intercede in Christ for man. God uses man and all kinds of things to bring man closer to Himself.

All that Mary and the Saints are doing is bring us into a relationship with Christ which in turn is the way to the Father.

Firstly, you avoided the issue on how can Mary give birth to God who is a Spirit?

Secondly, Why does anybody still need to go through somebody else before going to Jesus when Jesus already said ‘Come to me, all ye who are heavy laden’.

If your mother tells you to come to her if you have any problems, what do you do? You look for your aunt? Who will talk to her on your behalf??? Come-on, we don’t even do this to humans, why would anybody be doing this to God?!

.

 

[SimonArizona]

Mary is doing exactly what you are doing when you evangelize to someone you know. By way of knowledge and love, you are trying to bring men to Christ. Catholics simply believe that the power of intercession reaches past the grave to heaven where men now “know as they were known.”-St. Paul

I used to think that Mary’s appearings were Satan turning himself into an angel of light. Until I learned that these appearings have caused millions of converts to faith in Jesus Christ-not quite a productive work of the devil after all.

 

[Truthfaithlove]

Mary is doing exactly what you are doing when you evangelize to someone you know. By way of knowledge and love, you are trying to bring men to Christ. Catholics simply believe that the power of intercession reaches past the grave to heaven where men now “know as they were known.”-St. Paul

I used to think that Mary’s appearings were Satan turning himself into an angel of light. Until I learned that these appearings have caused millions of converts to faith in Jesus Christ-not quite a productive work of the devil after all.

Again, deviating. We are talking about the RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD…?

.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Again, deviating. We are talking about the RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD…?

No, this thread is talking about someone being led to Jesus by Mary. You have derailed it with two different topics. Why not start a thread for each one - is that too hard for you to do?

 

[SimonArizona]

Firstly, you avoided the issue on how can Mary give birth to God who is a Spirit?

Secondly, Why does anybody still need to through somebody else before going to Jesus when Jesus already said ‘Come to me, all ye who are heavy laden’. Jesus said “I will draw all men to myself”-we play a role as instruments of the Holy Spirit action to draw men to Christ, so does Mary and all the faithfully departed. In revelations, it speaks of the Saints bowed down in heaven offering up incense before the throne, and the incense is prayers.

**If your mother tells you to come to her if you have any problems, what do you do? You look for your aunt? Who will talk to her on your behalf??? **
.

Sorry I didn’t mean to avoid. I didn’t think that was an issue at all.

Mother is a concept that only man can have, for we know God is eternal and all powerful. Jesus has a Mother because He is man, She is the Mother of God because Jesus is God. Jesus is the only God man. He has a real human Mother according to his human nature, and a real God the Father according to His Divine nature.

 

[Pier]

The argument is this. God is a spirit that does not have a mother. Mary being the humble vessel that was used by God provided the host. God is God, God is not born by anybody.

Mary is a servant of God. Jesus is the name of the physical flesh that God used while He was on earth. It is not the flesh that makes Jesus God, it is the Spirit! And that spirit does not come from Mary.

.

Mary, who the Bible states nations & generations will call blessed among women (are we Catholics the only ones who do so honor her?) gave birth to God the Son, after she had said “Yes” to God the Father, & after having been overshadowed by God, the Holy Spirit…

It’s all in the Bible.

 

[RobHom]

No, this thread is talking about someone being led to Jesus by Mary. You have derailed it with two different topics. Why not start a thread for each one - is that too hard for you to do?

I think it would better if he/she was to dial it back a notch or two, and take some time to read the forum rules and actually discern from them the fact that there are “requirements” placed on being able to post here. Being “offensive” is not one of them.

 

[Pier]

Again, deviating. We are talking about the RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD…?

.

Actually, this thread is about Mary…

 

[Truthfaithlove]

Sorry I didn’t mean to avoid. I didn’t think that was an issue at all.

Mother is a concept that only man can have, for we know God is eternal and all powerful. Jesus has a Mother because He is man, She is the Mother of God because Jesus is God. Jesus is the only God man. He has a real human Mother according to his human nature, and a real God the Father according to His Divine nature.

The flesh part of Jesus does not make Him God. So Mary who gave Jesus the fleshly body is not the mother of God (who is essentially a Spirit).

We must agree here that God does not have a mother. Mary gave birth to the physical flesh that would not be God if there weren’t the Spirit of God within. It is the Spirit that makes Jesus the Son of God.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

• God has no mother.
• Mary is not sinless.

.

 

[SimonArizona]

I believe truthfaithlove has some honest questions, and the offensiveness is just what is going on in the mind. I know, I used to be vehemently anti-Catholic.

 

[Truthfaithlove]

I believe truthfaithlove has some honest questions, and the offensiveness is just what is going on in the mind. I know, I used to be vehemently anti-Catholic.

SimonArizona, correction…I am not Anti-Catholic. I am Anti-anti-scripture.

I believe if a person really wants to be a Christian, that person must go…back to the bible.

.

 

[SimonArizona]

The flesh part of Jesus does not make Him God. So Mary who gave Jesus the fleshly body is not the mother of God (who is essentially a Spirit).

We must agree here that God does not have a mother. Mary gave birth to the physical flesh that would not be God if there weren’t the Spirit of God within. It is the Spirit that makes Jesus the Son of God. No, it is the Spirit that makes the second person, but it is the union of God to flesh that makes Jesus the Son of God.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

• God has no mother.
• Mary is not sinless. says who?

.

I should have addressed this but didn’t for sake of brevity, but now I will. What Mary held in Her womb was a new creation. The first and only one of His kind is Jesus Christ-thats why I said Jesus is not just a diety with a human body. Jesus became fully man. just as you and I are, yet He is unique in that Jesus is also God. Again mystery.

Mary did not carry the physical flesh only in some type of loveless inutero. She is not simply a vessel that made Christ’s flesh. Mary gave birth to the God/man Jesus Christ. Maybe its hard to understand for us men, but that Baby was loved and adored by Mary to her very core. That is her baby, her creation. God saw it pleasing in this way, Mary by her obedience helped create Jesus.

So then Jesus truly has a Mother and Mary knows Jesus better than we do, so by her intercession, she is able to bring us into a relationship with Jesus like noone else can, because she is his mother!

 

[Pier]

SimonArizona, correction…I am not Anti-Catholic. I am Anti-anti-scripture.

I believe if a person really wants to be a Christian, that person must go…back to the bible.

.

Catholicism is an ancient religion of sacraments that Christ instructed & commanded His Church to uphold - therefore, Catholicism is the Bible in action. (that’s in a nutshell, & it really is the subject of another thread)…

 

[SimonArizona]

Catholicism is an ancient religion of sacraments that Christ instructed & commanded His Church to uphold - therefore, Catholicism is the Bible in action. (that’s in a nutshell, & it really is the subject of another thread)…

The bible is the book of the Church not the other way around.

While I believe the Bible to be the single greatest thing in my life, what has happened is Christians have limited themselves to only the Bible, missing out on the writings of great Saints, the Great Sacraments, the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the communion of Saints, etc.

 

[Pier]

The bible is the book of the Church not the other way around.

While I believe the Bible to be the single greatest thing in my life, what has happened is Christians have limited themselves to only the Bible, missing out on the writings of great Saints, the Great Sacraments, the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the communion of Saints, etc.

It’s important for people who believe in “Bible only” to realize that the blueprints to Catholicism’s very existance is in the Bible, including the sacraments (& the other topics you mentioned).

It would make an excellent topic for another thread.

 

[Reuben_J]

Mary is a servant of God. Jesus is the name of the physical flesh that God used while He was on earth. It is not the flesh that makes Jesus God, it is the Spirit! And that spirit does not come from Mary.

Blasphemy!

This cannot be from your own mouth but from the one who works in you. Catholics both love the physical Jesus and the spiritual Jesus. And we would not speak of Jesus in this manner.

I am not good in words; but you do not seem to have love. Well, we all don’t have what it takes to love. But at least here in this thread - this is a conversion experience. We cried and welcome this because we can see the love of God works in a person life. We all are once no people and have not recieved mercy, but through God’s grace we are His people and have recieved mercy. We are orphans, nothing, but God by His love makes us His children.

This is what happens here - a person experienced that grace of God through the action of one person - Mary. If you do not want to give Mary the credit for this, fine, but at least welcome this person to the family of God and gives thanks. You did not and had not. So I suspect your belief because anyone who has experienced God and his love and truly believe in Him will rejoice in seeing a brother coming back to the sheepfold. You do not seem to be that enthusiatic and therefore your motive must be suspect.