Can Jesus believers do any type of excersices like Tai Chi Chinese exercise

[Michael_Mayo]

As for bad fruits, I’ve met a lot of lapsed Catholics who left their faith for this and through it developed their own religion, the veracity of which they affirmed through good feelings and improved physical health. They discarded doctrinal truth for a feeling. Truth became a “universal truth” that all religions were good, right roads—a total discounting of the uniqueness of Jesus Christ, His Life, Death, and Resurrection.

I think though that this danger of Catholics becoming lapsed and leaving their faith is there to begin with and need not be attributed to the practice. In fact, the tia chi usually has nothing to do with something that has been brewing anyway. One does not have to get caught up in the spiritual philosophies and buy into another world view, another theology. As the bishop stated, same physical exercises can be grounded in a healthy Christian spirituality.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I noticed your reply didn’t add to the discussion or responded to the points I made, you just emphasized an argument previously used and that I had responded to in my first line.

Don’t take things out of focus, we’re not talking about self-defense in general, it’s specifically taichi, which seems to be used firstly and mostly for meditation, spiritual and health claims rather than self-defense.

I did Tai Chi Yang Style 108 position forms, for years and it had nothing to do with meditation, unless you went down that path. You can do the exercise and do Christian meditation and the results are the same, except the intention of your desire is to be centered on Jesus Christ.

Chi energy is not spiritual energy, but the bio/electrical impulses with in the human body, which a practitioner of Tai Chi learns to direct.

The magical aspects of Tai Chi which many promote, is essentially bogus.

The health benefits are real, but I found Yoga exercise to be more beneficial and moved to that over Tai Chi.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Chi energy is not spiritual energy, but the bio/electrical impulses with in the human body, which a practitioner of Tai Chi learns to direct.

Is it even that though, Jim? In the feng shui thing they try to alter chi flow outside the body.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Is it even that though, Jim? In the feng shui thing they try to alter chi flow outside the body.

But it’s nothing more than creating an atmosphere that gives one a sense of calm and pleasure.

There is more baloney associated with Tai Chi than reality, in my opinion. People who get into trouble are those who accept everything they’re told by so-called Tai Chi masters.

As far as self-defense goes, Tai Chi is all but useless.

FYI, I was involved with Tai Chi and MA 25 years ago. It didn’t effect my Christian spiritual life. If anything, it enhanced it for the teachers I had were routed in reality, not the tv magic baloney of the art.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

But it’s nothing more than creating an atmosphere that gives one a sense of calm and pleasure.

There is more baloney associated with Tai Chi than reality, in my opinion. People who get into trouble are those who accept everything they’re told by so-called Tai Chi masters.

As far as self-defense goes, Tai Chi is all but useless.

Jim

What about (Ithink it is) Aikido? It seems those guy can through people around effortlesly. Is it all leverage or more energy flow.

I guess it would have to be both.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What about (Ithink it is) Aikido? It seems those guy can through people around effortlesly. Is it all leverage or more energy flow.

I guess it would have to be both.

Pretty much useless.

Can demos by those involved in the sport and therefore promote it.

If it worked well, you’d see it being used in Mixed Martial Arts competitions, but it’s not and neither is Tai Chi.

My own instructor began learning Tai Chi from a Kung Fu expert. By the time I left MA, he still and no respect for Tai Chi as a self-defense skill.

FYI, my instructor taught state police and prison guards self-defense, so what he taught was used in real life situations.

Jim

 

[thistle]

As for bad fruits, I’ve met a lot of lapsed Catholics who left their faith for this and through it developed their own religion, the veracity of which they affirmed through good feelings and improved physical health. They discarded doctrinal truth for a feeling. Truth became a “universal truth” that all religions were good, right roads—a total discounting of the uniqueness of Jesus Christ, His Life, Death, and Resurrection.

Nobody leaves the Church due to practicing martial arts!

 

[SeekingHisMercy]

Nobody leaves the Church due to practicing martial arts!

Settle down there, pops. You and Jim R’s internet toughie status are coming out a bit strong…

.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Settle down there, pops. You and Jim R’s internet toughie status are coming out a bit strong…

.

Toughie status ?

Jim

 

[DakterP]

Gestures can have spiritual benefit when we give them meaning, otherwise no, only perhaps physical benefits.

But what Catholic classics are you talking about?

Kneelling for example is one universal sign of reverence, it was not decided in a assembly that it would be thus interpreted everywhere. The act itself poses a lower and vulnerable position. One may be so internally dispersed as not to feel it, but this is the anormal case, not otherwise. Sorry but you’re just wrong on this one, but it’s of no use to keep on debating this point since it’s off topic. I get the feeling though you’re one of those Christians that “don’t believe in absolute truths, just the meanings we give them”.

What kind of classics? Like those published by Tan’s Tan Classics or Paulist Press’ The Classics of Western Spirituality. Next to me I have one very good I finished reading recently: “The Spiritual Combat and A Treatise on Peace of Soul”, by Dom Lorenzo Scupoli. The title is quite suitable to this topic, I see now.

 

[DakterP]

Yes, the origins do not bother me. They come from another world view but that does not really matter.

Please share what bad fruits you have seen.

I haven’t seen any, I’ve heard first person accounts of some physical well being coming at the cost of very odd happenings and bad luck. It would be interesting to hear what the other readers of this thread can also share regarding this, for the multiplicity of evils’ sake, and the fact some people are more attentive. I still think it’s risky, and that taichi attracts people’s attention in the west today mostly because its oriental, old and odd.

 

[DakterP]

I did Tai Chi Yang Style 108 position forms, for years and it had nothing to do with meditation, unless you went down that path. You can do the exercise and do Christian meditation and the results are the same, except the intention of your desire is to be centered on Jesus Christ.

Chi energy is not spiritual energy, but the bio/electrical impulses with in the human body, which a practitioner of Tai Chi learns to direct.

The magical aspects of Tai Chi which many promote, is essentially bogus.

The health benefits are real, but I found Yoga exercise to be more beneficial and moved to that over Tai Chi.

Jim

Nearly all taichi videos I’ve seen and books I came across are about health promisses, I recall just one fight related. I’m pretty sure the many people doing the moves it in the park, even the older ones, are aiming at the health issues.

I don’t think some of it’s promisses are baloney at all, I think some of it is feasible, which is one of the reasons I believe it borders the occult. It requires quite the overlook to ignore all the claims made.

 

[DakterP]

Nobody leaves the Church due to practicing martial arts!

Wow, are you doing this on purpose? Why are you going from the specific to the general, just to make fun of us? I suppose your next post will be an apologetic about the right to exercise.

I do get the annoyance of some of the other readers. You love these practices so it annoys you that we unveil its negativeness. I just think there are better things to do than this. I didn’t feel like taking such risks. If I can make a suggestion, pray for further discernment, the result can’t be bad.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Kneelling for example is one universal sign of reverence, it was not decided in a assembly that it would be thus interpreted everywhere. The act itself poses a lower and vulnerable position. One may be so internally dispersed as not to feel it, but this is the anormal case, not otherwise. Sorry but you’re just wrong on this one, but it’s of no use to keep on debating this point since it’s off topic. I get the feeling though you’re one of those Christians that “don’t believe in absolute truths, just the meanings we give them”.

What kind of classics? Like those published by Tan’s Tan Classics or Paulist Press’ The Classics of Western Spirituality. Next to me I have one very good I finished reading recently: “The Spiritual Combat and A Treatise on Peace of Soul”, by Dom Lorenzo Scupoli. The title is quite suitable to this topic, I see now.

Yes, kneeling, perhaps also the raising of hands in prayer, prostration, bowing…

What other physical exercise do you find in the classics?

“don’t believe in absolute truths, just the meanings we give them”

Woe there now. Not quite, but meanings we give are extremely important, as is our motivation and intention. Without them our actions are empty.

We are incarnated beings. Our bodies are an important aspect of our spirituality. They require disipline and care. Exercise, diet, rest…these are universal needs and no need to associated with any religion. Calisthenics, weight lifting, sports…they are what we make them.

Sports especially, can become obsessions and involve superstitions.

Does that mean we should avoid sports?

 

[Church_Militant]

As one who has spent about a decade and a half in traditional Japanese karate and has taught classes myself, I can state that although there is some “martial philosophy” (for lack of a better term) I have never encountered even the remotest hint of religion in my training.

Traditional classes begin with “seiza” (sit) which is the kneeling posture of Japan (sitting on ones heels really) and then the command “mokuto” (close your eyes) and then a short period of simply clearing ones mind to prepare for the training, which I assure you will be very hard. :nunchuk: Then the command “Kaimoku” (open your eyes) and then begins a series of bows that show respect for the master of the style, the instructor, and finally any black belts present. That’s it…that’s all that’s going on.

I did advise my students that if they wanted to spend that time in prayer that that was certainly quite alright.

Never once was there ever any instruction about any form of religion at all my training. It’s simply not relevant to the training.

We had Five Precepts for Learners, which were simply:

1. 
   *]Respect and manners
   *]Be prudent in action
   *]Be prudent in speech
   *]Keep high spirited
   *]Keep yourself clean
   
   There is always a measure of “moving meditation”, but that is really nothing more than learning to let your body learn and execute the techniques and stances without conscious thought, which is what makes it all work most effectively, but nothing more.
   
   Can Catholics practice martial arts? Certainly! In fact there were a great many Samurai in ancient Japan who were devout Catholics and who paid a heavy price for their faith. (Search for Shimabara rebellion)
   
   Most martial arts here in the U.S. are taught primarily for health and self defense benefits and have little relation to their native countries religions. There are of course some exceptions, but ask up front and the instructors will candidly tell you what you want to know and if it’s not something you can be comfortable with, then go elsewhere.
   
   To be honest, I’d be more concerned with n-C Evangelicals teaching than Oriental religions because I do know a school near me where that is the case.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

DakterP

Kneelling for example is one universal sign of reverence,

No it isn’t. In some cultures, standing is the sign of reverence and respect. Kneeling would be seen as being rude.

This was particularly true in the Middle East.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Nearly all taichi videos I’ve seen and books I came across are about health promisses, I recall just one fight related. I’m pretty sure the many people doing the moves it in the park, even the older ones, are aiming at the health issues.

I don’t think some of it’s promisses are baloney at all, I think some of it is feasible, which is one of the reasons I believe it borders the occult. It requires quite the overlook to ignore all the claims made.

Well you chose to believe what you want, but Tai Chi is taught by many as a self-defense.

It’s considered a “soft martial art.”

It’s effectiveness is useless in today’s world, but at one time, it may have been effective,

That being said, it has nothing to do with the occult.

Jim

 

[thistle]

Wow, are you doing this on purpose? Why are you going from the specific to the general, just to make fun of us? I suppose your next post will be an apologetic about the right to exercise.

I do get the annoyance of some of the other readers. You love these practices so it annoys you that we unveil its negativeness. I just think there are better things to do than this. I didn’t feel like taking such risks. If I can make a suggestion, pray for further discernment, the result can’t be bad.

It has nothing to do with whether I like to exercise or if I like martial arts or not.
It has to do with what the Church allows.
The Church ALLOWS the practice of martial arts for exercise and self defence purposes. Anyone who claims otherwise is contradicting the Church’s position.

 

[SeekingHisMercy]

Look, the Catechism doesn’t have anything explicit about martial arts. The question is whether or not tai chi is compatible with the faith because of the issues regarding qi and the Daoist underpinnings of the art. Since there has been enough question to drum up this much opposition and to even bring a bishop in who comments on it, I’d say it’s not a black and white issue of the “Church ALLOWS the practice”. I’m obliged to follow my conscience formed by the teaching of the Church and since you haven’t shown me anything in Church teaching to contradict what I’ve brought up, the burden of proof is on you. I’ve given you plenty of reasons why I disagree with it and all you’ve done is come back with smart remarks. I’m definitely not going to put up with that kind of ****, Catholic forum or not.

 

[thistle]

Provided the martial art you practice is for exercise and/or self defence only it IS black and white that the Church allows it for these purposes. The origin of the martial art and any other purposes that other people put it to is totally irrelevant.
My 75 year old priest friend has practiced Tai Chi since childhood as a form of exercise only. He said there is no spirituality in his exercises. Under your odd thought process you would be saying he is committing a mortal sin which of course would be ridiculous. I think he knows better than you what he actually practices and that the Church ALLOWS it.