Can Jesus believers do any type of excersices like Tai Chi Chinese exercise

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And yet, the auxiliary bishop of Sydney has this to say:

bishopjulianporteous.com/?p=241
He talks a lot about the different worldviews/spirituality, but doesn’t explain just what in the Christian worldview is contrary to these practices.

“Dismantling the personality” means dismantling the false, illusory ego–what Christians call the “old man.”

Christians talk about “death to self.” I just don’t see that he has a case here.

And the claim that yoga leads to a lack of logical thought is very strange. Where does he get this from?

This article seems written from cultural Western preoccupations rather than out of any actual concern of orthodox Christian theology.
 
He talks a lot about the different worldviews/spirituality, but doesn’t explain just what in the Christian worldview is contrary to these practices.
I thought so also. Even he allows for disticntion between the practice and the world view it comes from. It is not as if the practice has an inherent spiritual component. Spirituality by its nature must involve intention. Some acts are inherently evil, such as murder, regardless of the intention. But excercises are nowhere near this kind of act.
 
Look, the Catechism doesn’t have anything explicit about martial arts. The question is whether or not tai chi is compatible with the faith because of the issues regarding qi and the Daoist underpinnings of the art. Since there has been enough question to drum up this much opposition and to even bring a bishop in who comments on it, I’d say it’s not a black and white issue of the “Church ALLOWS the practice”. I’m obliged to follow my conscience formed by the teaching of the Church and since you haven’t shown me anything in Church teaching to contradict what I’ve brought up, the burden of proof is on you. I’ve given you plenty of reasons why I disagree with it and all you’ve done is come back with smart remarks. I’m definitely not going to put up with that kind of ****, Catholic forum or not.
Are you aware that what is taught in Taoism is very much in harmony with Christianity ?

In fact, what Lao Tzu taught is very much in line with what Jesus Taught, and this is because, those who seek the truth, even though they never heard of Jesus, like Lao Tzu, Socraties, etc, God provides it to them. They do not have the fullness of revealed truth as Jesus gave us, because they existed long before Jesus. Nonetheless, God gives them truth.

A good book on the subject, “Christ the Eternal Tao,” by Hieromonk Damascene, Lou Shibai, looks at the teachings of Lao Tzu and Jesus and how they a very similar.

Jim
 
From the Letter to the Bishops Of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation.

This has been repeated dozens of times in this forum, but it seems to be to the blind.

Bold is my emphasis.
The majority of the “great religions” which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as "the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions,"18 neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian. On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured.
Jim
 
Are you aware that what is taught in Taoism is very much in harmony with Christianity ?

In fact, what Lao Tzu taught is very much in line with what Jesus Taught, and this is because, those who seek the truth, even though they never heard of Jesus, like Lao Tzu, Socraties, etc, God provides it to them. They do not have the fullness of revealed truth as Jesus gave us, because they existed long before Jesus. Nonetheless, God gives them truth.

A good book on the subject, “Christ the Eternal Tao,” by Hieromonk Damascene, Lou Shibai, looks at the teachings of Lao Tzu and Jesus and how they a very similar.

Jim
Actually, I’m pretty familiar with the Dao De Jing. In my academic studies, I did a translation of two chapters of it. No, Daoism isn’t in line with Christianity. There may be overriding concepts of benevolence and mercy that most religions and philosophies explore and find some agreement, but this doesn’t mean that I need to seek out wisdom from those philosophies, since the Catholic Faith offers what I need for salvation.

As for my odd thought (you do continue with your rudeness, thistle, don’t you?) and whether or not, your friend understands better than me or not, I’ll put my knowledge up against his (and yours) any day, sir. You don’t know me and you make an assumption that because I ruffle your feathers about something that you care about (enough at least to respond as much as you do to this thread), that I don’t know what I’m talking about. I am not afraid nor am I unwilling to take correction—I’m just not going to take it from you because what you’ve offered so far doesn’t measure up.

So, I’ve emailed Bishop Porteous, since his website offers an email address, to ask him. I’m happy to do my due diligence and ask legitimate authorities whether or not I am out of bounds.
 
SeekingHisMercy
Actually, I’m pretty familiar with the Dao De Jing. In my academic studies, I did a translation of two chapters of it. No, Daoism isn’t in line with Christianity.
There are similarities in the teachings of Lao Tzu and Jesus. Do yourself a favor and read the book I posted, Christ the Eternal Tao. The authors are Orthodox priest who are also experts on the Tao Te Ching.

The point of reading these things isn’t to convert to them, but rather, to see that God’s wisdom was handed down to those who sought the truth, before Christ came.

As the Vatican document I posted stated, we don’t reject what is good on other religions, just because they’re not Catholic, but embrace them and use then to edify our own faith, which is Christ centered.

Jim
 
Actually, I’m pretty familiar with the Dao De Jing. In my academic studies, I did a translation of two chapters of it. No, Daoism isn’t in line with Christianity. There may be overriding concepts of benevolence and mercy that most religions and philosophies explore and find some agreement, but this doesn’t mean that I need to seek out wisdom from those philosophies, since the Catholic Faith offers what I need for salvation.

As for my odd thought (you do continue with your rudeness, thistle, don’t you?) and whether or not, your friend understands better than me or not, I’ll put my knowledge up against his (and yours) any day, sir. You don’t know me and you make an assumption that because I ruffle your feathers about something that you care about (enough at least to respond as much as you do to this thread), that I don’t know what I’m talking about. I am not afraid nor am I unwilling to take correction—I’m just not going to take it from you because what you’ve offered so far doesn’t measure up.

So, I’ve emailed Bishop Porteous, since his website offers an email address, to ask him. I’m happy to do my due diligence and ask legitimate authorities whether or not I am out of bounds.
You will put up your knowledge of what the Church allows against a 75 year old priest??
Oh yeah!!
 
Just skimming through this thread… It blows my mind how superstitious people on CA are. This is yet another reason why people won’t become Catholic, because so many in the Church go hysterical over imaginary problems like Tai Chi.
 
Some views seem to advocate that if the originators of a martial art came from a non-Christian background, it would be best to avoid it. On that thought, it would seem to exclude many many other martial arts, especially those from the East.

Nonetheless, I would like to put forward a few thoughts.
  1. Qigong has many branches. Some classify it this way: medical, Daoist, Buddhist, martial. For the medical and martial categories, one can practice it without going into controversy?
  2. Taichi founders were non-Christians. Over the centuries, Taichi has spread outside of China and as a result many Christians are now masters/teachers of Taichi. Some Chinese Taichi masters migrated to Western countries and converted to Christianity. Surely I can learn some Taichi from these folks?
  3. We can extract non-religious or ignore portions of non-compatible philosophy from martial arts practice. Martial art is an evolving art/science. What is practiced today is not what was practiced decades/centuries ago. Anyway, many masters tend to modify their art as they see fit.
  4. In reality, most practitioners of Taichi do not aspire to reach the highest level of Taichi where some folks fear may include esoteric non-compatible philosophy. Taichi can be enjoyed for its medical benefits and even as a social event. In reality , most will not reach very high levels of Taichi due to inadequate natural talent, no access to competent teachers or no interest to reach high levels. What I termed as “just enough”. You can do your 24, 37 or 108 dance without involving incompatible philosophy/religion.
  5. From what I can gather from Taichi history, I am hard pressed to find Taichi founders espousing their religious beliefs to their students.
Personally, I started qigong as a health exercise. Later I was introduced to Taichi as a martial art and I was fortunate to meet people who introduced me to my current master who indeed teaches taichi as a martial art.

And lastly, Mark 7:18-23 sums it all.
 
There may be overriding concepts of benevolence and mercy that most religions and philosophies explore and find some agreement, but this doesn’t mean that I need to seek out wisdom from those philosophies, since the Catholic Faith offers what I need for salvation.
This is all true but looking at other philosophies and religions has always given me fresh perspectives to look at the Catholic faith and teaching with more gratitude, insight and appreciation. I especially like to follow interreligious dialogue.

monasticdialog.com/index.php

paulist.org/associates/growth-monastic-interreligious-dialogue

dimmid.org/

This is a time more than ever when we need to have a better understanding and appreciation of our differences as well as our common apsirations. But we have to start by being well grounded in our own faith. I do not feel my Catholic faith threatened by such dialogue.
 
This is all true but looking at other philosophies and religions has always given me fresh perspectives to look at the Catholic faith and teaching with more gratitude, insight and appreciation. I especially like to follow interreligious dialogue.

monasticdialog.com/index.php

paulist.org/associates/growth-monastic-interreligious-dialogue

dimmid.org/

This is a time more than ever when we need to have a better understanding and appreciation of our differences as well as our common apsirations. But we have to start by being well grounded in our own faith. I do not feel my Catholic faith threatened by such dialogue.
👍👍👍
 
Let’s be clear. There is only one God, For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory for ever. Amen. Romans 11:36

For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:5-7

For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. Ephesians 1:9-11

As long as we submit ALL our thoughts words and deed as an offering to God in Christ we do well. Some things may not appeal to us. I do not do Tai Chi but I have no problem with other Catholic Christians who do, especially if it helps them in body mind and spirit… If one does not feel comfortable then by all means do not do it.

Also submitted for you considerations:

Contemplation and Interreligious Dialogue:References and Perspectives Drawn from the Experiences of Monastics
monasticdialog.com/a.php?id=363
 
You will put up your knowledge of what the Church allows against a 75 year old priest??
Oh yeah!!
Wow, you are obnoxious and can’t seem to read very well. I said that I’d put my knowledge of what taijiquan is up against you and the priest you know who practices it. I have consulted mulitiple priests who have told me that my reasoning is solid. You seem to ignore the fact that I’ve agreed to reach out to Bishop Porteous.

Do I need to retype that a different way or can you get it through your thick skull?
 
Wow, you are obnoxious and can’t seem to read very well. I said that I’d put my knowledge of what taijiquan is up against you and the priest you know who practices it. I have consulted mulitiple priests who have told me that my reasoning is solid. You seem to ignore the fact that I’ve agreed to reach out to Bishop Porteous.

Do I need to retype that a different way or can you get it through your thick skull?
I have reported this.
 
could someone explain me what is the clearing your mind, that is wrong? and what is diferent from what normally happens when one is distracted or trying to get some sleep or diferent from what he says
and then the command “mokuto” (close your eyes) and then a short period of simply clearing ones mind to prepare for the training, which I assure you will be very hard. :nunchuk:
?
 
could someone explain me what is the clearing your mind, that is wrong? and what is diferent from what normally happens when one is distracted or trying to get some sleep or diferent from what he says?
There’s nothing religious about it. It is simply putting everything else out of ones mind so that you can focus on the techniques and stances you will be taught.

There is nothing at all wrong with this. It’s simply a form of self discipline.
 
There’s nothing religious about it. It is simply putting everything else out of ones mind so that you can focus on the techniques and stances you will be taught.

There is nothing at all wrong with this. It’s simply a form of self discipline.
yeah, i have asked some diferent people around, and they told me that the wrong mind emptyness is because it is for the yoga. but on past comments some users seems to say that you can’t empty your mind for nothing.

altough I also think that the stuff you make is not to empty the mind but just to get away all other toughts that might interfere with the learning, is this right?

sorry to bother, but this is quite important for me since im a big fan of MA. (I would love to learn kyokushin if I had the chance)
 
DMC12;11407087 said:
Right, and this is true in prayer.

We empty ourselves of anything that is not focused on Christ dwelling within.

We don’t become blank stoic eye staring zombies.

We detach from the inordinate thoughts which bring us out of the moment which is now, where God is. God doesn’t exist in time, which is only prevalent for us mortals. He exist in the now, and being in the now places us where God is.

Jim
 
No it isn’t. In some cultures, standing is the sign of reverence and respect. Kneeling would be seen as being rude.

This was particularly true in the Middle East.
It is also “offensive” to protestants, but it’s the occasion and fellow subjects they frown upon, it’s not a disagreement of the humbling meaning. Both of them would kneel before God. “Every knee will bend before me” (Rom.14), be it muslim or not.

Us westerners also have great difficulty in believeing we are so priviledged that those people in other religions were not blessed as much as us, or won’t be admitted in the presence of Jesus “just” because they weren’t baptised. But that seems to be the “pusillus grex” reality. I believe one should deal with this lest this tampers the conception one has of the Church, the inclination to think all religions are equally good.

Recently I’ve been reading books by/about exorcists (Malachi Martin, Amorth, Fortrea), since while many priests live in theological speculation that often confuses more than help, they actually get things done and get first hand on that invisible reality. Gabriele Amorth (Varican’s official exorcist, lest someone despises his opinion) was quoted: “yoga is satanic because it leads to practice of Hinduism”, “all eastern religions are based on a false belief in reincarnation”. This is to put a halt in the oversimplistic thinking and certainty of some (the “you can do it, it’s just an exercise”), and if memory doesn’t fail me somebody brought up yoga here as well. I want to add also that the very symbol of taoism is dualist, showcases a manicheist principle.

Also came across this: “In 1999, six years before he succeeded John Paul II as Pope, [Ratzinger] issued a document which warned Roman Catholics of the dangers of yoga, Zen, transcendental meditation and other 'eastern’ practises. They could ‘degenerate into a cult of the body’ that debases Christian prayer, the document said. Yoga poses could create a feeling of well-being in the body but it was erroneous to confuse that with ‘the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit,’ the document said.” [full document here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm , it seems to refer mostly to the likes of zen and yoga, but may contribute to this question] Some interesting quotations from this document below:
Christian prayer is always determined by the structure of the Christian faith, in which the very truth of God and creature shines forth (…) These and similar proposals to harmonize Christian meditation with eastern techniques need to have their contents and methods ever subjected to a thorough-going examination so as to avoid the danger of falling into syncretism. (…) Human experience shows that the “position and demeanor of the body” also have their influence on the recollection and dispositions of the spirit. This is a fact to which some eastern and western Christian spiritual writers have directed their attention. Their reflections, while presenting points in common with eastern non-Christian methods of meditation, avoid the exaggerations and partiality of the latter, which, however, are often recommended to people today who are not sufficiently prepared. The spiritual authors have adopted those elements which make recollection in prayer easier, at the same time recognizing their relative value: they are useful if reformulated in accordance with the aim of Christian prayer.30 For example, the Christian fast signifies, above all, an exercise of penitence and sacrifice; but, already for the Fathers, it also had the aim of rendering man more open to the encounter with God and making a Christian more capable of self-dominion and at the same time more attentive to those in need. (…) That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.
You see he stated the objections but made a conclusion that didn’t exclude it totally, making some of them like an open case. It is a western modernist atitude to strip things of their original ties in one’s own head and adopt it thinking it will also happen in reality. It’s not enough always because “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” and in the spiritual journey, some of it is one’s will and intention, other is God’s grace, other is ritual (we do have to go to mass).

I think it is key in this discussion the presentation of stories, if one knows, please share. But on a probably closing note, I don’t know if my posts summing things up were read but the main points haven’t been confuted I believe:
[1]taichi has shamanic origins, in which the moves have [1]preternatural origins and [2]incantational effects; and the whole thing seems like tangling with unknown spirits, who [1]may very well have been its moves’ authors. It is known [3]taichi began as esoteric [in secret within some families and noble circles in China], and it looks ritualistic enough. [4]Since the practice is based on and reflects some philosophical assumptions, it’s more than possible you end up believing/incorporating it on some level, specially after repetition. [5, changed]There are other kinds of spiritually harmless exercises for the body (like common sports), and in Catholic literature there’s plenty other advices for the soul, since peace of mind (apatheia, hesychia) is a christian goal, so I’m not sure there’s an excuse for the persistence in this option.
 
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