Can Jesus believers do any type of excersices like Tai Chi Chinese exercise

[JimR-OCDS]

DakterP

Recently I’ve been reading books by/about exorcists (Malachi Martin, Amorth, Fortrea), since while many priests live in theological speculation that often confuses more than help, they actually get things done and get first hand on that invisible reality. Gabriele Amorth (Varican’s official exorcist, lest someone despises his opinion) was quoted: “yoga is satanic because it leads to practice of Hinduism”, “all eastern religions are based on a false belief in reincarnation”.

I’ve neen doing Yoga exercise for well over 20 years, I haven’t been led to Hinduism. Jesus Christ is still my Lord and Savior, by God.

Fr Amorth has credibility issues, which I won’t go into here, but they have been addressed by other theologians.

This is to put a halt in the oversimplistic thinking and certainty of some (the “you can do it, it’s just an exercise”), and if memory doesn’t fail me somebody brought up yoga here as well. I want to add also that the very symbol of taoism is dualist, showcases a manicheist principle.

The dualistic principle in the symbol, Yin and Yang, is when the physical and spiritual are balanced we have health and harmony, i.e. the Tao or the way and has nothing to do with a deity of Eastern Religions. Lao Tzu originally taught that the Yin is the essence of your beliefs the Yang is putting those beliefs into physical action.

It works the same in Christianity. When you feel physically and emotionally well, it is conducive for your prayer life.

In Christianity, especially Catholicism, we see many people with scrupulosity and emotional disorders brought about by an inordinate following of religious ideas they have.

Proper instruction in their prayer life would be helpful, but it goes beyond just saying prayers memorized by rote, and Pope Francis just recently spoke about praying from the heart rather than just mindlessly repeating memorized words.

Also came across this: “In 1999, six years before he succeeded John Paul II as Pope, [Ratzinger] issued a document which warned Roman Catholics of the dangers of yoga, Zen, transcendental meditation and other 'eastern’ practises. They could ‘degenerate into a cult of the body’ that debases Christian prayer, the document said. Yoga poses could create a feeling of well-being in the body but it was erroneous to confuse that with ‘the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit,’ the document said.” [full document here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm

, it seems to refer mostly to the likes of zen and yoga, but may contribute to this question] Some interesting quotations from this document below:

He didn’t spoke of the dangers of not keeping Christ as the center of your life in these things. He also wrote in the document you linked, which I posted in this thread earlier,

V. Questions Of Method

1. The majority of the “great religions” which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. Just as "the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions,"18 neither should these ways be rejected out of hand simply because they are not Christian. On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured.

In other words, we must keep things, Yoga Exercise, Tai Chi etc, in proper perspective within the context of our Christian faith.

Everyone in this forum who practices Yoga exercise, Tai Chi, do so in the context of their Christian faith and benefit immensely from it.

Don’t reject what is true and holy, just because they are not Catholic, as Cardinal Ratzinger wrote.

Jim

 

[silver2soul]

Be careful and as another respondent stated; according to wiki it is a practice of meditation and should be avoided. If you want to exercise then by all means, jog, swim, bike, clean, walk a mile, etc. Leave room for prayer as this is the only meditation so to speak we should allow ourselves; the believers to practice.

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I’ve neen doing Yoga exercise for well over 20 years, I haven’t been led to Hinduism. Jesus Christ is still my Lord and Savior, by God.

Jim

I just counted and it has been 37 years for me, Jim. Probably not as often as I should but it certainly has not led to Hinduism. In fact it deepened my faith. Same goes for meditation & contemplative prayer. You see, I am an introvert. it is my nature to be quiet and not very outging. So yoga at least gets me moving in a prayerful way. They keep me body, mind and spirit focused on the Lord. I have not had the patience for Tai Chi. But when I stretch I get energized and healthy. When I pray my body prays also.

 

[DakterP]

Fr Amorth has credibility issues, which I won’t go into here, but they have been addressed by other theologians.

Who cares? I have just explained the prevalence Amorth’s advice has over theologians because their work is not direct as is his, some even deny dogmas explicitly with complicated arguments, don’t believe the cathecism, like some that appear in his books. He quoted one cardinal as saying “You’re an exorcist… right? But we both know the devil doesn’t exist.” Have they read the gospel? To Amorth it was not an idea or concept but a daily reality. Priests in general downplay the role of exorcists because most never watched an exorcism, never tasted the vile of the enemy this closely, plus too much talk about the devil seems ridiculous nowadays. Their opinions about Amorth is the one that should be taken cum grano salis.

http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-thumb-t-13259-50-hN0mmreDVTlniGEyZFNF7DPA27zbhWFb.jpeg

The dualistic principle in the symbol, Yin and Yang, is when the physical and spiritual are balanced we have health and harmony, i.e.

It could be this. It could also be taken as an equilibrium of good and bad as being equal but and opposite, and even complementary, instead of the Christian notion that light prevails over darkness, that good (“God alone is good”) is infinite, evil being just the absence of it. I’ve heard both. Frankly, I don’t know. But the question does not revolve arround the symbol.

but it goes beyond just saying prayers memorized by rote, and Pope Francis just recently spoke about praying from the heart rather than just mindlessly repeating memorized words.

Prayer has three levels or values: satisfactory, meritorious or impetratory and as spiritual delight or food for the soul. The first and second do not have to necessarily be atentive, as even the saints can distract themselves. Indeed, it can go beyond, it would be best to have all three levels, but the first is not despisable.

In Christianity, especially Catholicism, we see many people with scrupulosity and emotional disorders brought about by an inordinate following of religious ideas they have. Proper instruction in their prayer life would be helpful,

So veiled a remark. Annoyed much? Maybe I overestimated the capacity of some for an objective analysis of this. I’ll return to my studies, you get back to tenaciously trying to save tai chi’s face for this thread’s readers. My part is done.

 

[GearXL]

You might get a different answer depending on who you ask, but I see no problem with things like Tai Chi (or Yoga or anything similar to that). There are some more deviant uses of “Mystical Martial Arts,” as I like to call them, like that Yoga was actually a way to worship Hindu Gods, but is now more of a relaxation tool that does not contradict the teachings of the Church. Or that Tai Chi, founded by the Taoist religion, is sometimes used by Reiki practitioners to channel chi into areas of the body, hence the name Tai Chi. I personally believe in chi and think that it is a good way to calm yourself and ground you and your body. You can possibly even meditate while doing so, of course in the way of the lord. God bless and good luck.

 

[dedo]

I don’t see anything wrong with Tai Chi, Yoga, or any form of exercise, so long as you are anchored in your local church and seeking God on your own according to church theologians and your local priest (not forum laymen).

As far as calming the mind, I believe it is a good idea as well since all evil, including the desire to bind burdens on other people, comes from the mind. Theoretically, interrupting this cycle of thoughts, has the potential to interrupt evil.

Where do all the seven deadly sins get amplified into action? Answer: in the mind. How do scores of accidental injuries and deaths occur? Answer: the people were distracted with their thoughts instead of watching the task at hand.

I have taken care of numerous people with broken ankles including my own broken ankle. Every one of them that I asked about the etiology of the injury, revealed that the injury occurred because of a distracted mind.

However, not all means of calming the mind are good. For example, the history of the 20th Century shows us that Buddhist nations can be at least as war like as non-Buddhist nations, suggesting to me that Christians should seek to calm their minds with Christian meditative practice, not Eastern meditative practice.

I am currently trying to learn more about Lectio Divina for this specific purpose. I find it makes scores of daily activities including responding to high stress situations better. Some people use the Rosary or adoration for this purpose – to learn to be present with Christ.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

dedo

However, not all means of calming the mind are good. For example, the history of the 20th Century shows us that Buddhist nations can be at least as war like as non-Buddhist nations, suggesting to me that Christians should seek to calm their minds with Christian meditative practice, not Eastern meditative practice.

Just to jump in here on this statement.

Usually when people compare Buddhism to Christianity, they’re comparing Buddhist Monks with the general Christian population.

If we compare Christian Contemplative orders like Trappists and Benedictines with Buddhist monks, their calm and peaceful way are the same.

So, as you state, Buddhists nations are as violent as Christian nations, and in some cases, they’re worse.

Jim

 

[Vico]

You might get a different answer depending on who you ask, but I see no problem with things like Tai Chi (or Yoga or anything similar to that). There are some more deviant uses of “Mystical Martial Arts,” as I like to call them, like that Yoga was actually a way to worship Hindu Gods, but is now more of a relaxation tool that does not contradict the teachings of the Church. Or that Tai Chi, founded by the Taoist religion, is sometimes used by Reiki practitioners to channel chi into areas of the body, hence the name Tai Chi. I personally believe in chi and think that it is a good way to calm yourself and ground you and your body. You can possibly even meditate while doing so, of course in the way of the lord. God bless and good luck.

In March 2009 in a six page guideline the USCCB Committee on Doctrine said that Reiki “finds no support either in the findings of natural science or in Christian belief,” and that practicing Reiki puts Catholics’ spiritual health in danger by corrupting worship of God and turning religious devotion “in a false direction.” and that “A Catholic who puts his or her trust in Reiki would be operating in the realm of superstition,” and it is “the no-man’s-land that is neither faith nor science.”

“Without justification from faith or natural Science, a Catholic who puts his or her trust in Reiki would be operating in the realm of superstition, the no-mans-land that is neither faith, nor Science… [Therefore], it would be inappropriate for Catholic institutions, such as Catholic health care facilities and retreat centers, or persons representing the church, such as chaplains, to promote or provide support for Reiki Therapy”.

Guidelines for Evaluating Reiki as an Alternative Therapy

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In March 2009 in a six page guideline the USCCB Committee on Doctrine said that Reiki “finds no support either in the findings of natural science or in Christian belief,” and that practicing Reiki puts Catholics’ spiritual health in danger by corrupting worship of God and turning religious devotion “in a false direction.” and that “A Catholic who puts his or her trust in Reiki would be operating in the realm of superstition,” and it is “the no-man’s-land that is neither faith nor science.”

“Without justification from faith or natural Science, a Catholic who puts his or her trust in Reiki would be operating in the realm of superstition, the no-mans-land that is neither faith, nor Science… [Therefore], it would be inappropriate for Catholic institutions, such as Catholic health care facilities and retreat centers, or persons representing the church, such as chaplains, to promote or provide support for Reiki Therapy”.

Guidelines for Evaluating Reiki as an Alternative Therapy

This is true.

Reiki was proven to be bogus by a nine year old student doing a class paper years ago. Her mother a nurse, helped her, but the paper was actually accepted by major science groups as a valid study.

Jim

 

[Samuel376]

In case you haven’t yet noticed, I signed up specifically for more information on the Catholic view of this subject. So far I do not believe that Tai chi, used within reason, can do any harm. It seems there are four facets covered in this, thread all mixed up and addressed by different people in different posts, which may or may not have anything to do with Tai Chi. Exercise which is mere movement. Chi and it’s control. Meditation. And other forms of meditation.

First, I say within reason, because going too far within anything can lead to obsession, leading away from Christ, and towards possession. This doesn’t just apply to martial arts, so essentially it’s a standalone point.

The exercise/forms are harmless. If you consider their effectiveness as breathing control, well that’s there with anything. Even the mere exhalation of a breath while punching can be considered forcing chi behind that punch. If you yell, well apparently that’s even worse, as shown by the Japanese concept of kiai. If it’s effectiveness is for health, you can see that in any form down to the slow movements of physical therapy. If it’s effectiveness is for martial arts, it still uses the laws of physics to cultivate your sense of balance and be aware of your and your opponents center of gravity, not alternate “powers”.

Control of chi/ji/ki/qi is only mildly more complicated. While energy and endurance of can be derived from demonic influences coming from eastern religions and meditation(Vim Hoss is someone that I’m suspicious of who comes to mind), especially in the middle east, that is not always the case. Qi is considered scientifically valid. It has a basis in acupuncture/pressure and Traditional Chinese Medicine. Unless you’d like to the discredit the thoughts behind that too? I know plenty of people who would.

It is also measurable through different instruments as bio-electrical impulses as one poster said. It is an entirely natural thing. If you have any background in alternative medicine, this isn’t foreign, as it’s available in Kirilan photography and biophoton therapy. Now, while I agree it is maintained and can be moved within the body through martial arts, I don’t think it can be transferred through reiki or any such thing. Just like I don’t believe in lightness skills or natural levitation. Other arrangements such as feng shui falsely said to be chi-based are superstitions, rooted in the occultic and are comparable to other energy stream beliefs such as divination and dowsing.

On meditation there’s simple meditation which is just harmless relaxation and breathing. A break from everything that is hectic, distracting and weighing thoughts, and a bit of peace to clear your mind before practicing martial arts so you aren’t distracted. Yeah, you could get that from prayer, sure. Which you use is a matter of choice. The only harm comes is when you start substituting the latter for the former. Danger also starts when you go from that freedom from constant thought, to openness(similar to the buddhist “emptiness”, although they often have the same result when it comes to the demonic), which I do fully agree, lowers natural defenses, and allows for possible possession.

Don’t confuse this with openness to other things, such as the Bible. That openness is a very selective choice. Meditative openness is just leaving yourself open to anything. The last form of meditation, which is the highest level of meditation, as talked about towards the beginning of the thread, is extremely occultic, and actually heading out much farther from any origin of taoist beliefs, towards Indian philosophies, since things like the kundalini are based in yogic theory, not taoism. Not that I’d encourage taoism either, but that needed to be cleared up to avoid confusion. Thankfully, most people don’t have the interest, knowledge, or inclination to head in that direction, so I wouldn’t take it as an immediate worry when people speak of tai chi.

This is just my opinion in defense of eastern concepts. I find no harm in using it health and self-defense, as those are just ways to take care of the body.
Despite all I’ve said, I don’t practice Tai Chi, and couldn’t show you a single movement of the forms if you paid me. This just comes first and foremost as being a fan of natural health for a long time, and also liking a lot of eastern traditions. The first, not the second, is where I’ve come to think that qi, is not something occultic, but naturally occurring.