Can Lucifer Be Saved?

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Carl

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I am posing this question on behalf of someone who does not have access to the Internet.

Why do we never see any reference in Scripture to the possibility that Lucifer, like humans, might be offered Redemption? Is there any indication in Scripture that this is impossible, or highly improbable?

Should we pray for Satan? Would that be a truly senseless and laughable effort from Satan’s point of view?

How might God view such prayers?

Any takers?
 
I would have to ask where in Scripture is says that Christ’s redemptive work applied to angels instead of only to all of mankind?
 
Satan does not want to be saved in any case…by his own choice he has become the most prideful creation. It’s not in his character to humbly seek salvation from God…plus the book of revelations shows his damnation to be eternal
 
Sure I’ll jump on this.

Lucifer or “Light-bearer” is the name of the leader of the angels who rebeled against God. (I mention this so that the meaning of the quoted scriptural passage can be seen to clearly apply to Lucifer/Satan/The Devil.)

After being tempted by a devil during his 40 days of fast, Christ commands “Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.” Matt XXV, v41.

Now the “everlasting fire” reffered to is of course Hell. And the adjective “everlasting” used here clearly indicates the duration of their stay there. Therefore, noone who goes to Hell has any hope of salvation from there.

Now angels are purely spiritual beings. They have not the impediments to intellect that man has, thus there guilt is immeasurably greater than mans. Therefore God showed mercy to men when they sinned, though he spared not the angels when they sinned:

Gen II “THey rebelled against God - Lucifer, their leader, saying: “We shall be like unto the Most High; we will place our throne above the stars.” Then there was a great strife in heaven. Micheal and the otherangels who remained faithful to God, fought against the bad and rebellious spirits, whose chief is now called Satan, or the devil. The bad angels were conquered, and cast from heaven down to hell.”

Christ came specifically to redeem man, not the angels, who had no need, nor devils (fallen angels) who had already been judged and condemned to hell, but only for man. “For God so loved the world, that He sent His only Son . . .” Man needed redemption. God became man to redeem Man, not to redeem spiritual beings. Jesus died on the cross that Man might live, not that devils would be restored to life.

Finally, it would be pointless to pray for one in Hell, and since we know Satan is in Hell, we know we cannot help him by our prayers. But our prayers for someone who is deceased will be applied by God in a manner befitting the prayers. Thus you may pray for any deceased human, and though they might be in Hell, your prayers will not be wasted.

JPL
 
This leads one to ask: Can someone who goes to Heaven rebel against God like Satan and his angels did?
 
This is the first time I’ve posted on this forum…couldn’t help jumping in on this thread.

Although I’ve never considered Satan’s potential for redemption, I have often wondered whether the angels who remained faithful to God are immune from ever falling into the prideful ways of Lucifer.

And that thought led me to wonder if the nature of free will changes for us humans once we enter heaven? Will we still have the capacity to sin?

EB, St. Louis
 
Angels have two choices, they can serve God or they are cast out. We when we get to heaven we are eternally united with God and will not want to rebel against God so no we once in heaven will not be able to choose against God, or while we are in purgatory for that matter.
 
The angels made their choice before being exposed to the greatness of God. We are free to choose what we want, but the desire to chose God upon reaching heaven would overcome any other decision.
 
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astralis:
This leads one to ask: Can someone who goes to Heaven rebel against God like Satan and his angels did?
The short answer is:
No

The long answer is:
After the beatific vision human will fully realize how futile it is to rebel and how tremendously wonderful is Heaven. In a worldly thyinking this would be comparing living live as a burger flipper who have to work 15 hours a day with being a high level executive with $20 mil/month AFTER TAX! The different, the one sided comparison is way more one sided in Heaven. So there’s no way (impossibility) that you would rebel.

Plus, Lucifer and the rebelling Angels hasn’t received beatific vision ever since
 
No, he made his choice from the begining of creation…I do not think he wants it even if it were offered, he is to proud by his very nature…
 
Angels are purely spiritual beings, and once they decide on an action (i.e., to serve or to reject God) never change their minds. So once they have decided against God, they have firmly fixed their will against Him for all eternity.

It is speculated that the angels also underwent a “test” just as did Adam and Eve, to decide for or against God. Those who decided for Him were immediately granted the Beatific Vision; those who decided against Him were immediately cast into hell, in effect placing themselves there.

Some theologians speculate that the test of the angels may have been to have seen Christ, and asked to serve Him. Although he is God the Son, seeing Him in His human nature offended their pride, and some refused to serve.

JimG
 
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germys9:
I would have to ask where in Scripture is says that Christ’s redemptive work applied to angels instead of only to all of mankind?
We are not too sure about all the details regarding the angels and their salvation. Scripture reveals only bits and pieces of the puzzle. It is more concerned with us.

We know from the creation account that all that God created was good (see Genesis 1:31-2:1). But later envy was found in the heart of Lucifer (Wisdom 2:24; Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:11-19). Then some of the other angels also sinned and joined with Lucifer (Job 4:18; 1 Cor 6:3; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6). Afterwards, there was a rebellion and the evil ones were cast down from heaven (Luke 10:18; Revelation 8:10; 9:1; 12:3-4, 7-9).

Although angels also share free will, they probably underwent somekind of trial (this is pure speculation as the data is scanty). Paul considers the angels that remained in heaven as part of the “elect” (1 Timothy 5:21). In Hebrews, Paul states that Jesus partook of the nature of man to save man but not the angels (Hebrews 2:14-18).
 
According to the Catechism:
  1. God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures: and above all to the question of moral evil. Where does evil come from? “I sought whence evil comes and there was no solution”, said St. Augustine, and his own painful quest would only be resolved by his conversion to the living God. For “the mystery of lawlessness” (2 Thessalonians 2:7) is clarified only in the light of the “mystery of our religion” ( I Timothy 3:16). The revelation of divine love in Christ manifested at the same time the extent of evil and the superabundance of grace. (Romans 5:20) We must therefore approach the question of the origin of evil by fixing the eyes of our faith on him who alone is its conqueror.
  1. Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. (Genesis 3:1-5; Wisdom 2:24) Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” (John 8:44) or the “devil” (Revelation 12:19). The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God. The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.
  1. Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. (2 Peter 2:4) This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.” (Genesis 3:5) The devil “has sinned from the beginning” (1 John 3:8); he is “a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).
393. It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death.
  1. Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44), who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father. (Matthew 4:1-11) “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8) In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.
  1. The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature - to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.” (Romans 8:28)
  1. Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.
So no; Lucifer cannot be saved.
Plus, Lucifer and the rebelling Angels hasn’t received beatific vision ever since
The traditional teaching of the Church is that, when the angels were created, they were created in a state of sanctifying grace, but not with the Beatific vision. The angels were then subjected to a moral testing. Those that failed (Satan and his demons) were cast into Hell. The rest were admitted to the Beatific vision.

Satan thus never expereicned the vision of God; otherwise, he never could have sinned. And those angels now admited to the vision can never sin.
If there was no devil before Lucifer, who tempted Lucifer?
One need not be tempted by another person in order to be tempted to sin. In any event, we don’t know the nature of the test God put the angels through. All we know is that he tested them.
 
This thread can go into many other questions and topics:

When God created ‘the heavens and the earth’, when did he create the angels?

Since Lucifer had pride in his heart, thus evil developed. Then, could God recreate ‘evil’? I certainly believe God IS all GOOD. But I guess when God is God, he can do whatever HE wants. Evil can be seen as God’s way to see who is for Him and who is against Him.

On point to remember when answering these type of questions: God is OUTSIDE of time and space.

Go with God!
Edwin
 
hisspirit
  • And that thought led me to wonder if the nature of free will changes for us humans once we enter heaven? Will we still have the capacity to sin?*
We will still have free will in the new creation, but we will also have holy innocence, a gift that was lost in the Fall. Just as Adam and Eve knew only the good before the Fall, so to will those in the new creation know only the good. But the holy innocence of the blessed in the new creation will be vastly superior to the holy innocence of the terrestrial paradise. And there will be no testing by God in the new creation; i.e. there will be for us the tree of life to feast upon, but the tree of knowledge of good and evil will not be there.

To sum up, yes we will have free will in the new creation, but we won’t have the capacity to sin, since we won’t know how to commit sin because we will have no knowledge of evil (we will have no concupiscence). And we will never again be tested by God once we see the beatific vision.
 
Fascinating comments! Thank you all.

The only one that confuses me is the view that Lucifer was free to fall. How can we have it both ways? If Lucifer was in heaven, how was he free to fall, if humans who go to heaven are not free to fall, as some have argued above?

One answer given was that Lucifer never had the Beautific Vision before his fall. What would be the scriptural passage to support this? If so, Lucifer would not have known what he was rebelling against. But if he didn’t know, why should he be damned for all eternity, when Christ himself on the cross asks forgiveness for those who killed him because they knew not what they were doing

*Mystery of evil * indeed!.
 
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Carl:
One answer given was that Lucifer never had the Beautific Vision before his fall. What would be the scriptural passage to support this?
Again the Scriptures are concerned with us not the angelic race per se. They are only mentioned in passing. That being the case we don’t have definitive answers for you.

The Scriptures do inform us that Satan was able to stand in the presence of God along with the other angels (Job 1:6, 7; 2:1, 2). However, as to how he was viewing God (the glorious Triune God or in some veiled way) in these instances we do not know. Yet we also know that without holiness you cannot see God (Hebrews 12:14).
 
He nedeed no one he took care of it quite well all by his lonesome…the sin of satan is pride, most os us here on earth do not need to be tempted to be overly proud…
 
“…the sin of satan is pride, most os us here on earth do not need to be tempted to be overly proud…”

Apparently Adam and Eve did.
 
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