Can Mary be Sinless and Intercede for you?

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Scientiphic said:
I believe the key point of issue is that Catholics insist that the statement ‘full of grace’ means mary was sinless.

Non-catholics however insist it has nothing to do with claiming mary to be sinless because they believe the bible when it says 'none is righteous and all have sinned.

So, its very straight forward right?
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No, it’s not. Read psalm 14.

Go back and study and reflect upon the orginal Ark of the covenant and then ask yourself how much more awesome would God make the new Ark that carries the Word made flesh.
 
It is clear. Mary is the ark of the new covenant. Therefore, she’s spotless and immaculate before the Lord our God. This *fulfills *both the old and new testament. Read your bible more carefully.
 
Scientiphic said:
I believe the key point of issue is that Catholics insist that the statement ‘full of grace’ means mary was sinless.

Non-catholics however insist it has nothing to do with claiming mary to be sinless because they believe the bible when it says 'none is righteous and all have sinned.
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I believe the Bible as much as you do. I just don’t believe your spin on it. Please don’t suggest that we don’t believe the Bible just because we don’t swallow your interpretation of it.

Repeating verses won’t change their meaning. I’ve personally explained to you how both “none is righteous” and “all have sinned” are wholly consistent with Catholic faith.
Scientiphic said:
So, its very straight forward right? Do we choose to believe in the bible as it is declared, or do we choose to assume something that is not clearly defined?
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I choose to believe the Bible. That’s why I’m Catholic. I choose not to assume something that is not clearly defined, which is what you’ve offered, a man-made interepretation of selected verses (actually just selected phrases).
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
What does full of grace mean to you?

Of note, the greek work used connotes a state of being that is in process and not a temporary condition.

Could Mary be full of grace if she was stained with sin?
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Firstly, I’ve searched the bible and I don’t see this phrase ‘full of grace’ used on mary that catholics are claiming. The angel merely said ‘highly favored’. Mary was never declared sinless by the angel.

Secondly, if mary even dared to claim she was sinless, then she would be a liar. Becasue…

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Fortunately for us, it is not mary who is lying, but some ‘other people’.
 
Romans 3:23 for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to ALL men, because ALL sinned.

No exception made for anybody. ALL men have sin in them (including Mary).
 
Scientiphic said:
Firstly, I’ve searched the bible and I don’t see this phrase ‘full of grace’ used on mary that catholics are claiming. The angel merely said ‘highly favored’. Mary was never declared sinless by the angel.

Secondly, if mary even dared to claim she was sinless, then she would be a liar. Becasue…

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Fortunately for us, it is not mary who is lying, but some other ‘people’.
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The Truth was definitely in Mary.
 
Scientiphic said:
Firstly, I’ve searched the bible and I don’t see this phrase ‘full of grace’ used on mary that catholics are claiming. The angel merely said ‘highly favored’. Mary was never declared sinless by the angel.

Secondly, if mary even dared to claim she was sinless, then she would be a liar. Becasue…

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Fortunately for us, it is not mary who is lying, but some ‘other people’.
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"And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” Luke 1:28.

Is the First Letter of John addressed to Mary?
 
Scientiphic said:
Romans 3:23 for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to ALL men, because ALL sinned.

No exception made for anybody. ALL men have sin in them (including Mary).
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Well, if you’re gonna take everything so literally… Mary wasn’t a man. 😃
 
Scientiphic said:
Firstly, I’ve searched the bible and I don’t see this phrase ‘full of grace’ used on mary that catholics are claiming. The angel merely said ‘highly favored’.

Secondly, if mary even dared to claim she was sinless, then she would be a liar. Becasue 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Fortunately for us, it is not mary who is lying, but the catholics.
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You didn’t do enough research.

I’ll help!👍

The translation “Full of Grace” instead of “Highly Favored” or “freely beloved” is far more accurate to the Greek. The Ancient Syriac, Arabic and Latin versions bare the truth of this out. The translation “Full of Grace” was also approved by the early Christian fathers.

St. Luke wrote kecharitomene [a perfect passive participle of the verb charitoo]. In secular Greek charis meant charm, that which attracts favor. It was used to translate Old Testament Hebrew hen which first meant a favorable attitude of God to us, then the expression of that favor, then what He gives as a
result of that favor. namely hokmah or beraka, wisdom or blessing. (Oo verbs means to put someone in the state expressed by the root, which here is charis. ) The word was not used broadly like NT charis which came to mean any gift from God to us. The net result was that charis could mean either favor or grace.

But now, a thing often overlooked: if God merely sat there and gave nothing but a smile, favor, then the human would do the good by his own power - which would be Pelagianism. So when we translate favor, we must keep this in mind, and usually would do better to translate grace. So then charitoo will mean to put into grace.

Luke 1:28 in the 1611 King James Version has in the Margin notes “Much Graced” [Click here to see the scan of the full page]. This Scan is taken from the Thomas Nelson reprint of the 1611 King James Version of the Bible.
Further, in English we may use a noun to mark a person as the ultimate in his class. Kecharitomene is used here as her personal name. So just as Mr. Tennis is the ultimate in the category of tennis. --therefore she would be “Miss Grace”, much the same as full of grace.
 
Gamera said:
"And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” Luke 1:28.

Is the First Letter of John addressed to Mary?
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What version is that?

I looked up KJV and the others, all says ‘highly favored’.

.
 
Scientiphic said:
I suppose its necessary for you to say so in order to establish your faith. But you might like to know that it is in total contradiction to those biblical verses.
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Jesus isn’t the way, the truth and the life?? :confused:
 
Scientiphic said:
Romans 3:23 for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to ALL men, because ALL sinned.

No exception made for anybody. ALL men have sin in them (including Mary).
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But you’ve already condede that this refers to original sin, not personal sin. You already conceded that babies can’t commit personal sin. And the Bible says not all adults have, either. Luke 1:6 says Zechariah and Elizabeth never committed personal sin. The text of Romans shows that Paul is discussing original sin, saying all peoples, not all individuals, have sinned. Repeating theses verses does nothing to advance your argument that every person has committed personal sin. Luke 1:28 says Mary was “full of grace,” and you say she wasn’t. I believe Luke 1:28.

By the way, if “all” means “all” then why doesn’t “men” mean “men”? You can’t have it both ways. Why are you so literal about “all” but not so literal about “men?”
 
Scientiphic said:
Jesus IS.

Just that…Mary isn’t. And the pope isn’t as well.

.
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Did God choose Mary to be his mother?

Did God need a woman to be born as a man?

How much sin do you think God would allow his mother to commit?
 
Scientiphic, I think it’s now fair to ask, have you read the entire Bible, cover to cover? I ask because you continue referring to just a select handful of verses.
 
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