Can NCC's be heretics and seperated brethren at the same time?

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi All,

This question popped into my mind a couple of days ago. I have been pondering it and so I ask:

How can I be a seperated brethren of yours and be heretical at the same time?

Maybe I just dont see the difference between the two:shrug:

I am a believer in Christ and follow His ways to the best of my ability. On the flip side–I do not believe in most catholic theology-

Sooo–what exactly am I —a heretic or seperated brethren?

Thanks

 

[HannahLisa]

I’m not Catholic, but logically I would think that separated brethren are those who grew up Protestant/come from Protestant families/have made no formal rejection of the Catholic Church on their own. A heretic has to actually reject the Church after understanding it/possibly being a part of it, I think.

 

[manualman]

A heretic generally must know and understand true christian doctrine and teaching and reject it in favor of his own interpretation.

If you’ve been a protestant since the beginning of your adult faith life, then you may not hold any culpability for your erroneous beliefs (speaking frankly, if I may for discussion). If you aren’t culpable, you aren’t a heretic.

In today’s mixed faith society, there is no compelling need to divide protestants between the heretics and the merely separated brethren. So we just let God do the job and refer to y’all by the latter title since it is the course required by charity (the REAL definition).

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I’m not Catholic, but logically I would think that separated brethren are those who grew up Protestant/come from Protestant families/have made no formal rejection of the Catholic Church on their own. A heretic has to actually reject the Church after understanding it/possibly being a part of it, I think.

Thanks

 

[water]

Thanks

I couldn’t imagine myself calling you heretic.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

A heretic generally must know and understand true christian doctrine and teaching and reject it in favor of his own interpretation.

I do understand true christian doctrine as written in the bible and therefore reject much of catholocism.

If you’ve been a protestant since the beginning of your adult faith life, then you may not hold any culpability for your erroneous beliefs (speaking frankly, if I may for discussion). If you aren’t culpable, you aren’t a heretic.

AND I have been a prot my whole life. I became a christian at 29. There is a difference So, I have been a prot my whole life but I have also been studying and believe true christian doctrine which I believe is not represented(in its entirety)in the CC. So, Im not really sure what the CC would think of me:shrug:

In today’s mixed faith society, there is no compelling need to divide protestants between the heretics and the merely separated brethren. So we just let God do the job and refer to y’all by the latter title since it is the course required by charity (the REAL definition).

LOL I understand.

 

[mchale]

A heretic generally must know and understand true christian doctrine and teaching and reject it in favor of his own interpretation.

If you’ve been a protestant since the beginning of your adult faith life, then you may not hold any culpability for your erroneous beliefs (speaking frankly, if I may for discussion). If you aren’t culpable, you aren’t a heretic.

In today’s mixed faith society, there is no compelling need to divide protestants between the heretics and the merely separated brethren. So we just let God do the job and refer to y’all by the latter title since it is the course required by charity (the REAL definition).

I think there is one case where a distinction should be made; former Catholics, I believe, would technically be considered heretics. That being said, we tend not to use the term for people who convert out of the Church; I think generally it is only used for people who still try to maintain they are Catholic but deliberately hold heretical beliefs (for example Catholics who believe there is no contradiction between their Catholicism and being pro-abortion).

–
Bill

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I couldn’t imagine myself calling you heretic.

Thanks Water

 

[mercygate]

Short answer: YES.

A “material” heretic holds heretical beliefs without recognizing that they are heretical. A born-and-bred Southern Baptist definitely holds heretical beliefs but never having been exposed to orthodoxy, he can be considered a “separated brother” – a brother by virtue of his calling upon the Name of Jesus Christ as his Savior. And “separated” because he belongs to an ecclesial body not in Communion with the Church.

A “formal” heretic is someone who has deliberately and “formally” rejected orthodox teaching to embrace false doctrine. This is represents a rejection of his family relationship, and deprives him of the title “brother in the Lord.”

 

[mercygate]

I’m not Catholic, but logically I would think that separated brethren are those who grew up Protestant/come from Protestant families/have made no formal rejection of the Catholic Church on their own. A heretic has to actually reject the Church after understanding it/possibly being a part of it, I think.

Bingo.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Short answer: YES.

A “material” heretic holds heretical beliefs without recognizing that they are heretical. A born-and-bred Southern Baptist definitely holds heretical beliefs but never having been exposed to orthodoxy, he can be considered a “separated brother” – a brother by virtue of his calling upon the Name of Jesus Christ as his Savior. And “separated” because he belongs to an ecclesial body not in Communion with the Church.

A “formal” heretic is someone who has deliberately and “formally” rejected orthodox teaching to embrace false doctrine. This is represents a rejection of his family relationship, and deprives him of the title “brother in the Lord.”

So then what you are saying is that by me believing in what the bible teaches I have rejected orthodox teaching? Even though I have accepted the Lord as my Savior and do my best to follow His commands?

Thanks for your answers

 

[ibkc]

So then what you are saying is that by me believing in what the bible teaches I have rejected orthodox teaching?

By rejecting the wisdom of centuries in favor of your own personal interpretation, you’ve rejected orthodox teaching.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

By rejecting the wisdom of centuries in favor of your own personal interpretation, you’ve rejected orthodox teaching.

OH–OK---- but I dont believe my own personal interpretation

Does this mean that if I reject the interpretation of the CC then Im heretical?

Thanks everyone–Im truly just trying to understand how the CC makes the distinction

See, I just view myself a sinner in need of a Savior. I believe the apostle’s creed. I believe because I have accepted Christ as my Savior and have repented of my sin I have been adopted into the family of God. I dont understand how that would make me a heretic

OHHH another question just popped into my head Do catholics believe heretics can go to heaven?

 

[Filius99993]

So then what you are saying is that by me believing in what the bible teaches I have rejected orthodox teaching? Even though I have accepted the Lord as my Savior and do my best to follow His commands?

Thanks for your answers

You do your best, but many (most) Protestants are lead astray because they don’t have a guide. I mean, the Bible is the greatest book in the history of books, but you can’t rely on it for anything. The word ‘Protestant’ means you protest basic Christian tenets, namely, the Eucharist.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I think there is one case where a distinction should be made; former Catholics, I believe, would technically be considered heretics.

I think they would also technically be called apostates.

 

[ibkc]

OH–OK---- but I dont believe my own personal interpretation

Oh, OK. Whoever’s personal interpretation you believe. If you’re going against the wisdom of centuries, you’re rejecting orthodox Christianity.

See, I just view myself a sinner in need of a Savior. I believe the apostle’s creed. I believe because I have accepted Christ as my Savior and have repented of my sin I have been adopted into the family of God. I dont understand how that would make me a heretic

If you believe in “Once Saved, Always Saved” that is certainly heretical. And dangerous, for you.

OHHH another question just popped into my head Do catholics believe heretics can go to heaven?

This Catholic believes that is between you and God, but that you’ve made a dangerous choice.

 

[manualman]

I do understand true christian doctrine as written in the bible and therefore reject much of catholocism.

AND I have been a prot my whole life. I became a christian at 29. There is a difference So, I have been a prot my whole life but I have also been studying and believe true christian doctrine which I believe is not represented(in its entirety)in the CC. So, Im not really sure what the CC would think of me:shrug:
LOL I understand.

Oh, you DO know how to bait a fellow, don’t you?
Such a few words and you open so many cans of worms!

For the sake of brevity, based on your description of yourself and your percetion of what the truth is you are solidly in the ‘separated brethren’ category.

The other bait you set out has been thoroughly covered before, but I sure can’t blame you for being inconsistant!

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You do your best, but many (most) Protestants are lead astray because they don’t have a guide.

By guide Im sure you are talking about the Pope–correct?

I mean, the Bible is the greatest book in the history of books, but you can’t rely on it for anything.

Do you believe the bible is the inerrant word of God? If so, then I wonder why you feel you cant rely on it for teachings on faith and morals
I hope you meant everything and not anything. I hate to think you think the bible is no good. I do understand the CC doesnt think it is good for everything though.

The word ‘Protestant’ means you protest basic Christian tenets, namely, the Eucharist

.
I, personally do not protest basic christian tenets at all. If I did I wouldnt be a christian. When people ask me what I am as far as religion goes–I just simply call myself a christian. I dont really like to diffirentiate as far as cath --prot goes. Christians are Christ followers and there are many non-christians in the prot and cath church. You know the type–pew warmers

Thank you for your response:thumbsup:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Oh, you DO know how to bait a fellow, don’t you?
Such a few words and you open so many cans of worms!

LOL ----Im not smart enough to bait anyone. I guess it came across that way but that was not my intention Your probably right about the can of worms too but again not my intention. I just really want to know what the CC would say about me:thumbsup:

For the sake of brevity, based on your description of yourself and your percetion of what the truth is you are solidly in the ‘separated brethren’ category.

Thank you

The other bait you set out has been thoroughly covered before, but I sure can’t blame you for being inconsistant!

Could you just clarify which staement that was and where I was inconsistent. Im not a debator apologist type and my writing is my weakest area so I probably dont see where Im beeing inconsistent. But I do believe you when you say I was Thanks

 

[mercygate]

I do understand true christian doctrine as written in the bible and therefore reject much of catholocism.

Just looking at history and the continuity of doctrine, the Catholic Church is the core from which all other expressions of Christianity have deviated. The Catholic Church has both the flesh-and-blood continuity and the paper trail of Christian teaching – not least of which is, of course, the determination of the New Testament canon.

So your use of the word “therefore” in saying you reject much of catholicism BECAUSE you understand doctrine “as written in the Bible” would be inconsistent with the Catholic view of the faith. Someone who interprets Scripture outside the heart of the Church is “therefore” not reading it with “the mind of Christ.”

AND I have been a prot my whole life. I became a christian at 29. There is a difference So, I have been a prot my whole life but I have also been studying and believe true christian doctrine which I believe is not represented(in its entirety)in the CC. So, Im not really sure what the CC would think of me:shrug:
LOL I understand.

We on CAF know that you are a woman of good will, who loves Jesus Christ and that you are a genuine seeker of truth. Frankly, if you believe that you are privy to all the truth of the Christian faith, why on earth would you CARE how the Catholic Church “thinks” of you?