Can one be a gay or lesbian Catholic and still have a chaste romantic relationship?

[ignatius777]

I have to agree. Why do Catholics (who are concerned with things like chastity) enter in to romantic relationships? To discern if this person could some day be their spouse. What would be the purpose of two people starting a romantic relationship that could never lead to marriage?

It’s analogous to asking if a married man can have a romantic relationship with another woman provided it is “chaste”. If it ought not to lead anywhere further, it would be dangerous to attempt.

The problem here seems to be the use of the word “romantic”. It sounds like many believe its impossible to be romantic and remain chaste. All catholic couples who follow catholic teachings are called to periods of chastity in their “romantic” relationships. The challenge is to share romance without sex. The difference is homosexual relationships must remain chaste at all times.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

LCMS,

Are you familiar with the Courage Apostolate? If so, have they been helpful with SSA issues?

Yes, I am. The primary focus is on “the struggle” with regard to chastity but not on ways of overcoming same-sex attractions.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The problem here seems to be the use of the word “romantic”. It sounds like many believe its impossible to be romantic and remain chaste. All catholic couples who follow catholic teachings are called to periods of chastity in their “romantic” relationships. The challenge is to share romance without sex. The difference is homosexual relationships must remain chaste at all times.

False. Heterosexual relationships must remain chaste at all times, as well. There is no difference in that respect.

What is different is that while heterosexual persons can express their sexuality under the right circumstances, homosexual persons may never, ever under any circumstances whatsoever express their sexuality.

 

[Barbkw]

“Yes, I am. The primary focus is on “the struggle” with regard to chastity but not on ways of overcoming same-sex attractions.”

That’s what I understood from reading the website, that Courage doesn’t attempt to “change” a person with SSA into a heterosexual.

P.S. I’m committed to chastity and for me it’s a freeing experience. But I think I understand the pull you may feel toward sexual relationships. Particularly if you are young and in your 20s. Hormones are hell

 

[ignatius777]

False. Heterosexual relationships must remain chaste at all times, as well. There is no difference in that respect.

What is different is that while heterosexual persons can express their sexuality under the right circumstances, homosexual persons may never, ever under any circumstances whatsoever express their sexuality.

Thats not the case sorry. All single catholics are called to chastity. Sexual relations are reserved for marriage and not the misguided definition of same sex “marriage”. But again even in marriage catholic couples are called to chastity if they desire to restrict the size of their family.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

“Yes, I am. The primary focus is on “the struggle” with regard to chastity but not on ways of overcoming same-sex attractions.”

That’s what I understood from reading the website, that Courage doesn’t attempt to “change” a person with SSA into a heterosexual.

P.S. I’m committed to chastity and for me it’s a freeing experience. But I think I understand the pull you may feel toward sexual relationships. Particularly if you are young and in your 20s. Hormones are hell

Actually, for me, it’s deeper than simply wanting to have sexual relationships, it’s about feeling like a freak who has no place in society or in God’s kingdom. I’m 39 years old. I look back and see wasted time and effort. I see people out in the real world and see men and women paired off living normal lives and where am I? I’m pretty much a loser. I have 20 years with my employer and am barely above entry-level even though I’m capable of so much more. I am cursed with same-sex attractions. I have two friends and few acquaintances that I consider pleasant company. I trust few people, mostly because of the most loathsome curse if same-sex attractions I have been cruelly saddled with. I fear that if people got to know me, they’d hate me just as much as I hate myself due to the same-sex attractions.

When I think of the possibility of creating relationships with women, I only see them seeing me as a freak or a pervert and not wanting to get to know me. Especially considering I hate by body, the loathsome, blubbery thing it is, I would be ashamed to even ask a woman to marry me knowing she would have to sully her vision with my disgusting body. I see any moment of intimacy with a woman as being sheer torture that I would offend her or she would think I’m a disgusting perverted freak if I even looked at hear.

Yes, low self-esteem is part of same-sex attractions.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Thats not the case sorry. All single catholics are called to chastity. Sexual relations are reserved for marriage and not the misguided definition of same sex “marriage”. But again even in marriage catholic couples are called to chastity if they desire to restrict the size of their family.

False. From the Catechism:

2348 All the baptized are called to chastity. The Christian has “put on Christ,” the model for all chastity. All Christ’s faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity.

For the non-married, that means no sex. For the married, that means unitive sex that is open to life.

 

[Adam1986]

Hey everyone. I was just wondering, if someone is a gay or lesbian Catholic, can they still have a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex so long as it is chaste? Personally, I lean towards no since homosexuality is objectively disordered. But what does the Church actually teach on this?

Is it possible? Sure! There’s nothing wrong with that.

Is it often a reality? No, especially with gay men. I say that because men USUALLY have higher sex drives then women. So two people with very high sex drives, living together in love will most likely “get into trouble”. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’d be extremely hard for lesbians to be 100% chaste too.

Just think how hard it would be to live with your husband and never be able to have sex with him. EVER. :nope:

So, yeah I’d say it’s a fine practice. But you’re not going to have too many people lining up to do it though.

 

[Barbkw]

LCMS,

I like you , that’s the good thing about being chaste. My advice, don’t let your sexuality or your job define you. God made all of us and He loves us. I’m a bit of a self made rolly polly myself. It’s a struggle to accept the person you are, independent of the the body you’re in.

 

[Barbkw]

If I’m being honest, I’m a bit more than a bit rolly polly (Yo-yo dieter)

Each time the string rerolls I weigh more than I ever did before.

 

[ddarko]

Hey everyone. I was just wondering, if someone is a gay or lesbian Catholic, can they still have a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex so long as it is chaste? Personally, I lean towards no since homosexuality is objectively disordered. But what does the Church actually teach on this?

Hi,

I am pretty sure the answer is NO.

The reasons are as follows:-

A relationship must be ‘‘proper’’ towards our loved ones. For an example, the relationship with a husband and wife can accommodate such actions as intercourse and it is proper. Similarly, to have a romantic relationship with a member of the opposite sex is ‘proper’ PROVIDED that the relationship is CHASTE and the end goal is marriage. If not, then that relationship is ALSO IMMORAL. Just being chaste is not enough. That is only one part of the equation.

After all, how would you feel if someone was in a relationship with you just because you are sexually satisfying for that person (and at the same time they would never marry you)? I for one would be very hurt . Plus, there is also the fact that then the relationship becomes utilitarian.

So in the case of homosexual romantic relationships, the relationship is NOT ‘proper’ since it can never culminate in marriage. If anything, the two parties are deliberately putting themselves in near occasion of sin and committing a sin in the process.

In short, Homosexual men and women can have friends of the same sex just as heterosexual couples can do of the opposite sex. BUT, homosexual couples cannot have a romantic relationships since its END or GOAL can never be culminated in marriage.

I think another trivial way of looking at this question is, can a person have a chaste romantic relationship with a Dog? I think the answer is obviously no

I hope that answers your question

God Bless

 

[Barbkw]

LCMS,

I would say too, there is a “glass half full or glass half empty” aspect to whether a person is alone and happy or alone and lonely.

I’ve been both.

 

[Bookcat]

My point is that through the practice of chastity, people can change sexual love desires into agape love (the inclusive type of love that Jesus showed to all people).

It is simply not a possible “romantic” relationship…not even on a Thursday.

…anymore than one is permitted have a chaste “romantic” relationship with ones Sister or Mother or Father or Aunt!

or I (a married man) can have a romantic relationship with a girl who is not my wife…

A person with can have a non-romantic friendship with the same sex (if not a near occasion…) …

But never a romantic relationship.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

It is simply not a possible “romantic” relationship…not even on a Thursday.

…anymore than one is permitted have a chaste “romantic” relationship with ones Sister or Mother or Father or Aunt!

or I (a married man) can have a romantic relationship with a girl who is not my wife…

A person with can have a non-romantic friendship with the same sex (if not a near occasion…) …

But never a romantic relationship.

Maybe an exploration of the different words in Greek for love? Eros, erotic love, is not allowed. Storge, or familial love, is not relevant. Phileo, brotherly love, is what all friendships are based on. Agape, or divine love, is always the goal for everyone.

 

[ddarko]

Maybe an exploration of the different words in Greek for love? Eros, erotic love, is not allowed. Storge, or familial love, is not relevant. Phileo, brotherly love, is what all friendships are based on. Agape, or divine love, is always the goal for everyone.

Well when you say* “Romantic” *love you clearly don’t imply Agape

So I think bookcat has a point and his examples highlight why it’s impossible to consider a “romantic” chaste relationship between two homosexuals as Moral. Chastity is only one part of the equation in a relationship. The Goals and Ends also matter.

God Bless

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Well when you say* “Romantic” *love you clearly don’t imply Agape

So I think bookcat has a point and his examples highlight why it’s impossible to consider a “romantic” chaste relationship between two homosexuals as Moral. Chastity is only one part of the equation in a relationship. The Goals and Ends also matter.

God Bless

I would say mutual phileo + mutual eros = romantic

 

[Barbkw]

I was reading on another website about chaste SSA relationships.

They termed the question as “two SSA persons committed to each other in an emotionally intimate yet sexually chaste friendship.”

Bonded emotionally in friendship - chaste sexually. A brotherhood.

Which, quite honestly, that is what the practice of chastity is - an emotional bonding to other men and women in friendship. A wanting for each other to see God.

 

[Bookcat]

I was reading on another website about chaste SSA relationships.

They termed the question as “two SSA persons committed to each other in an emotionally intimate yet sexually chaste friendship.”

Bonded emotionally in friendship - chaste sexually. A brotherhood.

Friendship…never anything “romantic”…yes such is possible.

 

[Barbkw]

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0001.html

I just found this article online - it adds more information about SSA, chastity and the group Courage. The SSA writer converted into the Church - interesting read and insightful.

Out of the Closet and into Chastity by David Morrison - “My pilgrimage from being a homosexual-rights activist to living life as a chaste Catholic began in earnest when I read the writings of a modern-day Protestant martyr, Dietrich Bonhoeffer.”

I also was reading online where SSA couples - who were once romantically/sexually involved - loss interest in contining that relationship. However, they remain together and are committed to that person emotionally.

 

[ddarko]

I would say mutual phileo + mutual eros = romantic

Yes and as soon as you put the “+ mutual eros” in to the equation, Bookcat’s argument stands. You simply can’t have a romantic relationship with no hope of a marriage at the end. That is immoral. You would be simply using the other person for your sexual satisfaction.

The right thing to do is have a friendship. NOT a romantic one either.

God Bless