This question is confrontational in nature, but I think that it is important. Actually probably the most important question I have ever asked. I would consider myself a Christian, am I? Or am I one of those people who will say "Lord Lord"and Jesus say “I never knew you”(not exact quote just off the top of my head).
This is a general question for all NON-Catholics. I posed a question recently why aren’t you protestant. Most generally the answer was that we do not have the fullness of truth. Is what truth we have enough?
I know that a recent pope has said that if protestants have not seriously thought about or heard about the catholic church that they could be saved (just a paraphrase I didn’t feel like looking this up again). Which was a kind of adjustment from Unam Sanctum.
I did not add my own beliefs because I want this to be a general not specific question.
I’ll quote my old Presbyterian (Methodist trained) pastor here, back in the days when we used to have discussions in his office.
He once commented to me “I sometimes wonder if Protestants get into heaven.” He went on to point out that “Some of the things Luther said and did weren’t very Christian.” He also thought God wasn’t so accommodating of men’s division of HIS church as we are - we think it’s OK, just like we live everyday with news of murder, abortion, war, cruelty, injustice and all the other things that we know very well He does not think are OK.
I was a bit surprised to hear him say this, so I said, “Well, if you believe that, why are you still Protestant.” He thought for a moment, shrugged, and said, “They (Catholics) have done a lot of damage at times”. Which is true enough.
However for him to make the comment meant that sometime during his married life he’d had a seachange of opinion about Luther. His second youngest son bore the middle name Luther. I only found that out because this son, a very determined personality with physical strength to match, had been a bit of a tearaway for a while, before making a sincere commitment to Christ. He himself told me the following story.
He was booked doing 160kph on a 100kph highway for example. The cop interviewing him rang his father, the pastor. Then he got back to the son, and said, “Hmm. Your middle name is Luther. Is that correct?” The son replied he was. “Hmm” said the cop, “I don’t suppose you know where that comes from?” The cop was setting him up!
The point is though that at one time the pastor could give his son the middle name Luther, and at a later date state Luther was sometimes not very Christian. In fact, he said to me he sometimes wondered if Luther was the false prophet of Revelation fame (“If there is to be a false prophet” was a rider he added), stating “The Reformation was easily the most violent episode in Church history”.
For example from -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion …
The major impact of the Thirty Years’ War, in which mercenary armies were extensively used, was the devastation of entire regions scavenged bare by the foraging armies. Episodes of widespread famine and disease devastated the population of the German states and, to a lesser extent, the Low Countries and Italy, while bankrupting many of the powers involved. The war ended with the Treaty of Münster, a part of the wider Peace of Westphalia.
During the war, Germany’s population was reduced by 30% on average. In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two thirds of the population died. The population of the Czech lands declined by a third. The Swedish armies alone destroyed 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns. Huge damage was done to monasteries, churches and other religious institutions. The war had proved disastrous for the German “Holy Roman Empire.” Germany lost population and territory, and was henceforth divided into hundreds of largely impotent semi-independent states. The Imperial power retreated to Austria and the Habsburg lands. The Netherlands and Switzerland were confirmed in independence. The peace institutionalised the Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinist religious divide in Germany, with populations either converting, or moving to areas controlled by rulers of their own faith.
Now I’ve had a fair number of spiritual experiences of one sort or another. Some time after the pastor died, he appeared to me in a brief vision, and simply said "We’re not in heaven. We’re all in purgatory. Oh, we’re not suffering any pain, so you don’t have to worry about that! In fact " (and here he looked quite impressed) “it’s pretty good around here! But we’re not in heaven!” Then he disappeared.
I take that to mean that there are no Protestants in heaven. I think they’re all in Purgatory, probably in the upper near heavenly reaches. And I think they’ll stay there until the church reunifies. I don’t think God accepts the division of HIS church, established at such great cost to HIS Son, who Himself declared Peter to be the ROCK on which HE would found HIS church.
Any opposition to that clear statement is Scripture is plain disobedience, no matter how many people try to explain it away.
Are Protestants saved? I think they are. Are they in heaven? No, I don’t think they are. I think they’ll have to wait till the churches reunify under the Pope. Christ was setting up an office in Peter (another comment the pastor made). Simple as that.
Which is one of the reasons I don’t have much time for the business of “infallibility”. As far as I’m concerned, it’s just one more unnecessary barrier to reunification.
That’s how I see it.
kind of ruins your day, doesn’t it. I can’t imagine the Holy Spirit moved us to dialogue and learn from our brothers and sisters only to damn ourselves.