Can raped girls abort?

[Fidelis_Unus]

Rence, I have some further thoughts on some of your comments. (I know SHOCKING isn’t it? ) I do get verbose at times. I’ll try to be brief.

Yes the stories, like statistics can be made to support anything. There is, however, only a Truth. These pregnancies carry human beings who have the same right to live as everyone else, given to them by God. We are not talking about forcing opinions, the Church teaches that this is a human life and it has the same right to live that your or I do. It’s not forcing opinion, it is acknowledging a God-given right to life that already exists.

You said that people here are going by how they ‘feel’ and that’s really not what I’m reading here. I can only speak to my conviction; however, which does not come from feelings, it comes from reading, researching, talking with women who have dealt with this and taking time to understand why the Church teaches what she does. I feel greatly for the suffering of women who, in addition to choosing to turn away from a life that God has created, but in doing so, separates herself from His love. That’s not judging her, it is acknowledging her situation.

I, and others her, are going by what the Church, in her great wisdom teaches. God knows the answer and gave us His Church to guide us. The Church doesn’t take decisions based on feeling, they study history, study philosophy and theology etc, they discuss ad nauseum, they pray far more than many of us do, begging for discernment, and they have the blessing of God, the Holy Spirit to guide them in their discernment.

We are talking about a human life that God created. Someone should be speaking for the right of the child.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

The article that you first referred me to:
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0566.html

was written by a Priest, who interpreted the Church documents. That’s what Priests do for us when we have questions about Church documents. It means more to me than a lay-person’s interpretation. Father was right in his article, a woman has the right to protect herself from further injury.

Yes, according to the priest; however, that right to protect herself from further injury ends the moment a human life has been conceived, having been created by God.

I’m still open to more data from the Vatican re: the efficacy of this document. I, too, wish that this were more clear and am open to (name removed by moderator)ut from others. I’m here to learn and share. How blessed we are to be able to so this!

 

[Rence]

Rence, I have some further thoughts on some of your comments. (I know SHOCKING isn’t it? ) I do get verbose at times. I’ll try to be brief.

Yes the stories, like statistics can be made to support anything. There is, however, only a Truth. These pregnancies carry human beings who have the same right to live as everyone else, given to them by God. We are not talking about forcing opinions, the Church teaches that this is a human life and it has the same right to live that your or I do. It’s not forcing opinion, it is acknowledging a God-given right to life that already exists.

You said that people here are going by how they ‘feel’ and that’s really not what I’m reading here. I can only speak to my conviction; however, which does not come from feelings, it comes from reading, researching, talking with women who have dealt with this and taking time to understand why the Church teaches what she does. I feel greatly for the suffering of women who, in addition to choosing to turn away from a life that God has created, but in doing so, separates herself from His love. That’s not judging her, it is acknowledging her situation.

I, and others her, are going by what the Church, in her great wisdom teaches. God knows the answer and gave us His Church to guide us. The Church doesn’t take decisions based on feeling, they study history, study philosophy and theology etc, they discuss ad nauseum, they pray far more than many of us do, begging for discernment, and they have the blessing of God, the Holy Spirit to guide them in their discernment.

We are talking about a human life that God created. Someone should be speaking for the right of the child.

Here’s the thing. I believe the choice is up to the woman. I believe that a woman should be able to make decisions regarding her own body. That’s how I feel about the matter. I don’t think it’s going to change. I especially don’t think my view will change after reading all the posts about how women should not have such freedoms and that someone else should be making the choice for them, and forcing them to comply with someone else’s views no matter what the circumstances are. It is a situation that is highly immoral to me.

The Truth you speak of somes from speaking/writing from the perspective of a practicing Catholic. If one is not Catholic, or even, if one is not Christian, one is not inclined to share your views. These people don’t care about the rules of the Church, and don’t feel they should be subject to the rules of the Church. And why should they? The fact of the matter is, I do NOT wish to be subject to the rules of someone else’s religious teachings. Therefore I don’t force my religious views on someone else. It really is that simple. There is no reason to dig further. I have no ulterior motive. My views are about respect for people whose beliefs and values are different that my own. Period. I believe that people form their beliefs and values based on their environment and their life experiences. I don’t believe the CC has the right to enforce their religious laws on non-Catholics. I believe if the CC wants to stop people from aborting pregnancies, they need to regulate from within. In other words, they need to regulate Catholics, not the rest of the world who doesn’t give a hoot about Catholic teachings. If one doesn’t believe in God, then they don’t believe in God-given rights and perspectives taught by the CC.

I greatly value the freedom I have to actually follow (or not follow) the teachings of the Church. It’s my choice, and it should be. Why would I take that choice away from another woman who doesn’t acknowedge the teachings of the CC?

 

[Rence]

Yes, according to the priest; however, that right to protect herself from further injury ends the moment a human life has been conceived, having been created by God.

I’m still open to more data from the Vatican re: the efficacy of this document. I, too, wish that this were more clear and am open to (name removed by moderator)ut from others. I’m here to learn and share. How blessed we are to be able to so this!

I agree with the Priest.

I can’t see myself choosing an abortion after I’ve become pregnant after (God forbid) a rape. If you don’t dilly dally and immediately go to the ER and be treated the probability is very high that you are preventing a pregnancy. It would be highly unlikely that a conception would have occured in that time. It would be worth the risk for me to take EC immediately rather than get pregnant against my will due to an act of violence and terror. Therefore, by taking EC immediately, one wouldn’t have to even consider having an abortion later.

 

[wanner47]

Here’s the thing. I believe the choice is up to the woman. I believe that a woman should be able to make decisions regarding her own body.

What about regarding her child’s body?

 

[kage_ar]

I agree with the Priest.

I can’t see myself choosing an abortion after I’ve become pregnant after (God forbid) a rape. If you don’t dilly dally and immediately go to the ER and be treated the probability is very high that you are preventing a pregnancy. It would be highly unlikely that a conception would have occured in that time. It would be worth the risk for me to take EC immediately rather than get pregnant against my will due to an act of violence and terror. Therefore, by taking EC immediately, one wouldn’t have to even consider having an abortion later.

Priests are not infallible.

This priest said what boils down to it is okay to take a chance and kill a baby. That is in direct OPPOSITION to what the Church says, in opposition to what the USCCB document says.

To disregard life at conception is to put yourself in a state of sin.

 

[Apryl]

I don’t realise because from what I know that was not the case. Think for a minute about the development of a 9 year old’s womb.

I’m no doctor.

I don’t even play one on the internet.

What are you saying about the development of a 9 yo womb? Any thing to back up what you claim?

 

[hellopeople]

Honestly, I believe this is an presumption with nothing to indicate that this is even plausible. It is, a best, a guess and certainly an unfair statement. IMO

In terms of judging, I have not heard anyone here JUDGE a rape victim.

I am sure that most of the people in this thread WOULD judge a rape victim that got an abortion and consider her a murderer.

 

[hellopeople]

As a victim of rape, this really struck a nerve. I can tell you that it’s not that easy. Rapists hardly are ever jailed, unless they already have been convicted of several violent offenses. The justice system favors the criminal. I went to Hell and back making sure my rapist paid half of what he should have. He was 3 months away from being 18 at the time of the assault (I was 16 years old), so he got off easy because he was just a juvenile. He’s a registered sex offender and has to take some “healthy sexuality” classes. He’s on probation for a year. That’s it.

I did not get pregnant as a result. I do, however, know how heart wrenching and horrible it is, waiting to find find out if you are or not. Should the victim of rape really have to carry a child that she didn’t want in the first place? Especially if she’s underage? Should an innocent girl have to become a mother (or be pregnant for nine months) when she had just reached the age to get her driver’s license that year? No.

Being raped is bad enough, then there’s the tie to the rapist and nine months of disgrace. I know you’re going to say that you shouldn’t worry about “disgrace” and things like that, but do you have any idea how hard it was to even make it through the day after being violated? Add carrying a child on top of that. It’d be near impossible to survive.

I am Catholic and I would have aborted had I gotten pregnant as a result. Just my opinion.

This about sums up my point. I know someone extremely close to me that went through the same situation but DID get pregnant…she got an abortion.

 

[wanner47]

I am sure that most of the people in this thread WOULD judge a rape victim that got an abortion and consider her a murderer.

And here I thought God alone was omniscient.

 

[kage_ar]

And here I thought God alone was omniscient.

Nah, adolescent atheists know more.

 

[hellopeople]

Nah, adolescent atheists know more.

lol, I am not an adolescent and I am not an atheist. It is easy to tell that some of you sit on your moral high horses looking down at others though.

 

[Rence]

I am sure that most of the people in this thread WOULD judge a rape victim that got an abortion and consider her a murderer.

Well…count up the number of posts not just here but on other threads that read, “it doesn’t matter, it’s still murder.”, “it doesn’t matter, it’s still a sin”. and “it’s still murder, she has to have it and either love it or give it up for adoption”. So if one considers it murder and a sin for a rape victim to have an abortion as some people have been saying, then it would follow that yes, they would consider a rape victim who has an abortion a murderer. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist, you just need to be able to read to put that together. Isn’t that what this thread is all about?

 

[davidv]

Well…count up the number of posts not just here but on other threads that read, “it doesn’t matter, it’s still murder.”, “it doesn’t matter, it’s still a sin”. and “it’s still murder, she has to have it and either love it or give it up for adoption”. So if one considers it murder and a sin for a rape victim to have an abortion as some people have been saying, then it would follow that yes, they would consider a rape victim who has an abortion a murderer. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist, you just need to be able to read to put that together. Isn’t that what this thread is all about?

How are these things judgemental?

Bad things happen to us all the time.

What does not happen all the time, is the punishment of an innocent person for the bad thing.

How is the rape victim’s circumstance different the the case of a driver who is hit by a drunk driver, and suffers such severe injuries that the victim is hospitalised for 9 months? There is a natural consequence for all actions. And often we have no moral authority to interfere with those consequences.

 

[kage_ar]

How are these things judgemental?

Bad things happen to us all the time.

What does not happen all the time, is the punishment of an innocent person for the bad thing.

How is the rape victim’s circumstance different the the case of a driver who is hit by a drunk driver, and suffers such severe injuries that the victim is hospitalised for 9 months? There is a natural consequence for all actions. And often we have no moral authority to interfere with those consequences.

Exactly.

In addition, the child did NOTHING, why face the death penalty for simply being alive?

 

[Rence]

How are these things judgemental?

**It’s true that some people judge others. But that’s not what I meant. If one considers it murder to have an abortion even in the case of rape…then does not the party who was raped and have an abortion as a result considered to be a murderer? or not? **

Bad things happen to us all the time. What does not happen all the time, is the punishment of an innocent person for the bad thing.

**Bad things happen to innocent people all the time. For example, the woman who gets raped. She is innocent. And certainly no one can deny the innocence of the 9 year old in the above posts. Bad things happen to good and bad people, all the time. **

How is the rape victim’s circumstance different the the case of a driver who is hit by a drunk driver, and suffers such severe injuries that the victim is hospitalised for 9 months? There is a natural consequence for all actions. And often we have no moral authority to interfere with those consequences.

She’s no different. She gets medical treatment appropriate to her injuries just like someone hit by a drunk driver in a MVA. And just like the victim of the MVA due to a drunk driver, the woman who is raped gets preventative treatment as well, or should. Actually, she does if she wants it. Patients are all treated for not only their injuries, but to prevent further injury.

 

[davidv]

**It’s true that some people judge others. But that’s not what I meant. If one considers it murder to have an abortion even in the case of rape…then does not the party who was raped and have an abortion as a result considered to be a murderer? or not? **

If one commits a murder, such as having an abortion, then one is legitimately labeled a murderer, are they not? What does this have to do with judgement?

**Bad things happen to innocent people all the time. For example, the woman who gets raped. She is innocent. And certainly no one can deny the innocence of the 9 year old in the above posts. Bad things happen to good and bad people, all the time. **

Was the rape some form of punishment of some other wrong? I don’t think so. How can the injustice of the rape be used as an excuse to inflict an injustice on a innocent child?

She’s no different. She gets medical treatment appropriate to her injuries just like someone hit by a drunk driver in a MVA. And just like the victim of the MVA due to a drunk driver, the woman who is raped gets preventative treatment as well, or should. Actually, she does if she wants it. Patients are all treated for not only their injuries, but to prevent further injury.

A rape victim can get a appropriate medical treatment, like prenatal care, as well. Is pregnancy a disease or injury?

 

[Rence]

Was the rape some form of punishment of some other wrong? I don’t think so. How can the injustice of the rape be used as an excuse to inflict an injustice on a innocent child?

A rape victim can get a appropriate medical treatment, like prenatal care, as well. Is pregnancy a disease or injury?

A rape victim is usually offered EC to prevent a pregnancy from happening in the first place…as it should be. She has the choice to take it or not take it according to her conscience. Why should a woman be forced to become pregnant after she has been raped? Why cause a woman to suffer more and more due to the actions of someone else? I’m not asking, btw. I’m saying: she shouldn’t have to suffer more and more. She should not be forced to become pregnant. She shouldn’t have been subjected to rape in the first place. And it’s okay that you don’t agree with me…as long as I still have a choice. Which I do.

 

[Apryl]

I am sure that most of the people in this thread WOULD judge a rape victim that got an abortion and consider her a murderer.

Men and women go off to war, every day. Sometimes, in efforts to protect our liberties and freedoms, they have to kill people.

Police officers are often protecting people when they have to discharge their firearms. Sometimes, that means they have to kill people.

In both of these cases, the people are doing what they see as best, and they are never seen as ‘murderers’, but they still guilty of killing; of committing murder.

Some women believe they have no other alternative. Tragic. Sad.

Some women believe they have the right, even the obligation, to kill their unborn. That is even more tragic and sadder.

But we’re not talking about the choices that people make, esp when they feel cornered or obligated. We’re talking, really, about people who, without any immediate threat, are PLANNING to kill a child in reaction to someone else hurting them.

We’re talking about those wou want to lash out in response to a violent attack, and not attack the attacker, but an innocent child.

Does that mean we (I) judge the rape victim? I’m not even there.

Am I excusing the choice? No. Can’t do that. I feel sorry for any one who has had an abortion, either by their own choice or those around them. I feel sorry for any one who has felt it was the right thing to do. I really feel sorry for any one who thinks it’s ok to kill an innocent, voiceless child. Am I judging them?

Eh… mebbe. Aren’t you judging us, though?

 

[davidv]

A rape victim is usually offered EC to prevent a pregnancy from happening in the first place…as it should be. She has the choice to take it or not take it according to her conscience. Why should a woman be forced to become pregnant after she has been raped? Why cause a woman to suffer more and more due to the actions of someone else? I’m not asking, btw. I’m saying: she shouldn’t have to suffer more and more. She should not be forced to become pregnant. She shouldn’t have been subjected to rape in the first place. And it’s okay that you don’t agree with me…as long as I still have a choice. Which I do.

I agree you always have a choice. The Church can do nothing to make you decide one way or another. But she will be very clear which of your choices involve serious danger to your relationship with God.

You have not explained why pregnancy is a continuation of the suffering of rape. There is pain involved, but it is not the pain of rape. It is the pain of pregnacy. Two very different things. The Church also teaches that the sufferings involved in each can be redemptive and a blessing.