Can someone help?

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Thorolfr said:
I’m gay and I’m not confused 🙂
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I don’t want to offend you and I don’t believe that this is the correct venue to discuss your personal situation.
I don’t know the path that lead you to where you are today but I can say with confidence that it is not the Lord
that calls you to SSA.

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
I do not believe said “scientific research” exists beyond “self-identification” surveys and wishful thinking. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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Being wedded to a position (that can’t be proven, and for which there is nil evidence, but is contrary evidence) is not a sound platform from which to ask for “help”. Some would say it is disingenuous.
 
jjr9 said:
I don’t want to offend you and I don’t believe that this is the correct venue to discuss your personal situation.
I don’t know the path that lead you to where you are today but I can say with confidence that it is not the Lord
that calls you to SSA.

God bless
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Yeah!!! Something you and I can agree on! Think of all the other realities of life to which we are not called, but which happen. The Lord calls us to deal with our circumstances to the best of our ability, in accordance with his laws. This includes people who experience SSA.
 
Rau said:
Being wedded to a position (that can’t be proven, and for which there is nil evidence, but is contrary evidence) is not a sound platform from which to ask for “help”.
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I believe the "homosexual person " is a lie from Satan that many accept as truth.

You claim to have “evidence” that the lie is truth but do not provide the “evidence” for
examination.
Rau said:
Some would say it is disingenuous.
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I am sorry if you do not believe I am sincere in my belief that the Church has made an error
in claiming that a group of people has the capacity to “experience an exclusive … sexual
attraction toward persons of the same sex”.

God bless
 
Rau said:
Yeah!!! Something you and I can agree on! Think of all the other realities of life to which we are not called, but which happen. The Lord calls us to deal with our circumstances to the best of our ability, in accordance with his laws. This includes people who experience SSA.
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It is not clear to me what it is you think we agree on. If it is that we all face our own set of
temptations that require the Grace of the Lord to overcome great common ground.

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
I believe the "homosexual person " is a lie from Satan that many accept as truth.

You claim to have “evidence” that the lie is truth but do not provide the “evidence” for
examination.
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I have evidence? No, not me… the evidence is available in the scientific literature. Do you have access to a university library? You are welcome to review the studies yourselves. I understand you have not done so, do not intend to do so, and have discarded them all as wrong. 🤷
 
jjr9 said:
It is not clear to me what it is you think we agree on.
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Re-read post 128. I think it is clear!
If it is that we all face our own set of temptations that require the Grace of the Lord to overcome great common ground.
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God bless
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Not just temptations. Frailties, be they psychological, physical, or spiritual. Bad luck. Injury. Deprivation. Addictions. Mental illness. God does not call us to these things, rather he calls us to Himself. Hopefully we answer by seeking to do our best, according to his laws.
 
Rau said:
I have evidence? No, not me… the evidence is available in the scientific literature. Do you have access to a university library? You are welcome to review the studies yourselves. I understand you have not done so, do not intend to do so, and have discarded them all as wrong. 🤷
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I believe that you are mistaken about the existence of said “evidence”. Feel free to prove me wrong.

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
I believe that you are mistaken about the existence of said “evidence”. Feel free to prove me wrong.

God bless
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In that case, I hereby add “deny the very existence of scientific studies”. to my earlier post summarising your position.
 
jjr9 said:
I believe that you are mistaken about the existence of said “evidence”.
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Hmmmm. On the one hand we have a few % of the population, some faithful Catholics, claiming to experience SSA and not to experience opposite sex attraction, supported by scientific studies asserting this truly is their experience, and on the other hand we have your assertion that there really are no such studies, and all those folks are simply confused. 😉
 
jjr9 said:
There are plenty of survey studies. I do not recognize these as convincing.

God bless
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Do you also choose not to believe scientific research results related to cancer or to educational problems in inner city schools or is it only scientific studies concerning gay etiology?
 
kozlosap said:
Do you also choose not to believe scientific research results related to cancer or to educational problems in inner city schools or is it only scientific studies concerning gay etiology?
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To be fair, there are no definitive studies on the etiology of SSA, only on the reality of the experience. We still don’t know the etiology.
 
kozlosap said:
Do you also choose not to believe scientific research results related to cancer or to educational problems in inner city schools or is it only scientific studies concerning gay etiology?
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Can you cite these “scientific studies concerning gay etiology”? Is there anything you consider
conclusive beyond self-identification examined? Thank you for taking time to reply.

God bless
 
Rau said:
To be fair, there are no definitive studies on the etiology of SSA, only on the reality of the experience. We still don’t know the etiology.
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When you speak of “the etiology of SSA” are you including the group the Church claims has
the capacity to “experience an exclusive … sexual attraction toward persons of the same
sex”?

Although I have no definitive proof I do believe that SSA is a temptation do you believe that
SSA is a temptation or is it something else?

Is the “reality of the experience” based on something beyond self-identification?

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
… to allow oneself to get to the point of self-identifying as a “homosexual person” 1] who is
incapable of attraction to persons of the opposite sex 2] may very well be sinful I don’t know. My concern is not about
individuals although my heart breaks for those who miss eternal life caused by the stumbling block the Church has
put out in accepting what I believe to be the false premiss of the “homosexual person”.

The person I communicated with at Courage said:

“the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the
person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual”

I wish this was the case with the Church.

God bless
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To deal with point 1 first - the person from “Courage” is correct and the church documents are badly worded for the reason stated by the person from “Courage” (friends of mine who know tell me) but not for the reason you state in point 2 the unrealism of which the other posters point out.
 
From my observations as a single man and from what I am often told by astute and well qualified acquaintances, the role of emotions in marriage shouldn’t be taken for granted but must continually receive long, slow thought :extrahappy:

Is that your viewpoint from your point of view jjr ?
 
jjr9 said:
I have contacted the Courage ministry and believe they do good work in helping confused
individuals. The person who responded said:

“The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.”

I wish that this person was correct in their assessment and that “the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual”. I believe the Church is promoting the idea that persons are “heterosexual” or “homosexual”.

God bless
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Yes exactly but that is not the same as the other, additional point that you keep making.

Incidentally you keep using the word “capacity”. Who brought that in?
 
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