Can someone who rejects the Gospel be saved?

[Nikolaite]

Obviously, a person who learns the Gospel, learns in stages. It requires seeking. Rejecting and not believing, is not seeking. Man has a responsibility to seek out what is being delivered to him, before rejecting. It’s natural.

I can honestly say that I do not know why you’ve directed this comment at me.

 

[fhansen]

It has mostly to do with our knowledge. Having heard the gospel as a youth I still didn’t understand it-or believe -I just honestly didn’t know. I had to seek truth/God on my own, and the Church teaches that we’re actually morally bound to do so. Other people may be brought up in a culture where Christianity is hated or in any case rejected- perhaps they’ve been mistreated or abused by “Christians”-or at war with them. These things can influence our perceptions and mitigate culpability. God knows and judges by the heart in any case, according to Scripture.

 

[Ammi]

Because you said this:

“The Gospel presumes a thorough knowledge of the Jews’ longing for a savior, a Messiah, manifest in the old testament. Why were they looking for and longing for a savior? If a man knows the answer to that question, but rejects it and refuses to believe what is said, can he be saved?”

 

[TK421]

People are given the gift of final perseverance before death even if they spent their entire life living in sin, and then if this is also spurned there is nothing left to do for them, but not for want of trying.

The problem is that as Christians we’ll fully understand in the hereafter what a lousy job we did and how this affected the less privileged people around us. People naturally long for a savior in their depths of their soul. The Norse longed for a savior and they had Thor. The Egyptians longed for a savior and they had Osiris. The Greeks longed for a savior and they had Heracles. When the real deal finally comes in Christ but he is not presented as he ought to be, this does terrible psychological and spiritual damage to people. It is absolutely devastating.

 

[Nikolaite]

Because you said this:

“The Gospel presumes a thorough knowledge of the Jews’ longing for a savior, a Messiah, manifest in the old testament. Why were they looking for and longing for a savior? If a man knows the answer to that question, but rejects it and refuses to believe what is said, can he be saved?”

Ok, well, I believe I’ve given you enough for an answer. You should be able to read rhetorical questions and reason your way on your own.

 

[Ammi]

But the Gospel itself is that God Himself was abused and suffered unjustly, so that Men could be saved.

So why would someone reject that because they saw men doing it to others?

You see? The Gospel message is about abuse and persecution. And that God subjected Himself to it.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Invincible ignorance doeant mean someone rejects what they have learned of the Gospel message. It means they have not learned the Gospel message. Thus, they are ignorant of it.

It’s not someone who ‘rejects what they have learned of the Gospel message’, but is prevented from accepting it through something that is no fault of their own and that could mean poor evangelisation or the bad example of other Christians among many other things.

 

[Ammi]

You are talking about a false Gospel

Someone being taught a false Gospel.

 

[Emeraldlady]

You are talking about a false Gospel

Someone being taught a false Gospel.

Someone can teach an ignorant person the absolute letter of the law but for example without love the Gospel cannot be transmitted. They are just a clanging gong as St Paul says. This happens all the time. It is not the fault of the hearer that the truth of the Gospel doesn’t seem credible.

 

[Ammi]

Ammi:

You are talking about a false Gospel

Someone being taught a false Gospel.

Someone can teach an ignorant person the absolute letter of the law but for example without love the Gospel cannot be transmitted. They are just a clanging gong as St Paul says. This happens all the time. It is not the fault of the hearer that the truth of the Gospel doesn’t seem credible.

I dont think that would mean the person is rejecting the Gospel. They are rejecting the abusers.

I’m talking about someone who knows the Gospel, and rejects IT.They dont believe the message itself.

 

[Magnanimity]

“In explicit terms He Himself [Christ] affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.” -Lumen Gentium 14

I’m not sure how “on point” this quote from LG is, but I offer it here to contribute to the discussion.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

Ammi:

You are talking about a false Gospel

Someone being taught a false Gospel.

Someone can teach an ignorant person the absolute letter of the law but for example without love the Gospel cannot be transmitted. They are just a clanging gong as St Paul says. This happens all the time. It is not the fault of the hearer that the truth of the Gospel doesn’t seem credible.

I dont think that would mean the person is rejecting the Gospel. They are rejecting the abusers.

I’m talking about someone who knows the Gospel, and rejects IT.They dont believe the message itself.

Such as the Jews then? As Catholics we no longer try and convert the Jews as their place in the economy of salvation is so important that we can respect that they will be converted by the coming of Christ again.

 

[Ammi]

“In explicit terms He Himself [Christ] affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.” -Lumen Gentium 14

I’m not sure how “on point” this quote from LG is, but I offer it here to contribute to the discussion.

Yes, kinda. The never ending debate would be, “what constitutes knowing?”

 

[Ammi]

No. The “Jews” are a nationality. No nationality will be converted. That’s a silly notion to begin with. If Jesus said they rejected Him, then that’s that.

 

[fhansen]

But the Gospel itself is that God Himself was abused and suffered unjustly, so that Men could be saved.

So why would someone reject that because they saw men doing it to others?

You see? The Gospel message is about abuse and persecution. And that God subjected Himself to it.

Yes! The gospel is about a very different God, counter-intuitive perhaps and not at all like the superheros of our world. But we may still see God as angry, distant and aloof in His power and superiority-the way we often play God when we abuse power over others. But the Cross stands as testimony to a completely different God, a different hero, Whose nature is pretty well described in 1 Cor 13:4-8 and Who begins to make nothing but sense as we become jaded by this world’s gods-and its pride, including our own.

The catechism teaches that, at the Fall, man “become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.” Jesus came to, among others things, correct that image by definitively showing us the true face of God, so that we may know His existence and goodness and so believe in, hope in, and love Him, with fear cast out of the picture. Jesus came to reveal and restore the “knowledge of God” as it’s called, the intimate knowledge spoken of in Jer 31:34.

But this takes time and seeking and prayer and faith with increasing obedience. The ultimate state of justice for man is when we fully love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. That’s the goal-how well do any of us measure up? And BTW, I think we can and must always get better at understanding, explaining, and clarifying the truth concerning the nature and will of God, in our catechesis.

 

[Emeraldlady]

No. The “Jews” are a nationality. No nationality will be converted. That’s a silly notion to begin with. If Jesus said they rejected Him, then that’s that.

The Jews are a religion waiting for the promised Messiah. They reject the Jesus was that at this point.

In concrete terms this means that the Catholic Church neither conducts nor supports any specific institutional mission work directed towards Jews. While there is a principled rejection of an institutional Jewish mission, Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner, acknowledging that Jews are bearers of God’s Word, and particularly in view of the great tragedy of the Shoah.

While affirming salvation through an explicit or even implicit faith in Christ, the Church does not question the continued love of God for the chosen people of Israel.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...i_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html

 

[Ammi]

This has no relevance to the thread.

Salvation is attained or lost by individuals, not a nationality or a religion.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I think this muddies the waters because not only must one believe in, and not reject, the Gospel to be saved, provided one has heard it, but one must also believe in the Church as the only means of understanding the Gospel. Acceptance of the Gospel on one’s own without belief in the Church is therefore not enough for salvation according to this message.

 

[Ammi]

I think I agree with your point.

But I do believe the essence of the statement.

Ephesians 3

and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,

 

[Crusader13]

Such as the Jews then? As Catholics we no longer try and convert the Jews as their place in the economy of salvation is so important that we can respect that they will be converted by the coming of Christ again.

I don’t think that is correct. Many Jews have converted and prior to VII we prayed for and evangelized to the Jewish people. It was only later that some felt it was anti Semitic to infer that being Jewish meant they couldn’t attain salvation without Jesus Christ.