Can someone who rejects the Gospel be saved?

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nfinke said:
But if you hear the gospel, believe it’s true, and for some reason “reject” it (that term seems to imply you had it to begin with), then at that point you’ve turned away from God wilfully and with full knowledge of the consequences
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I dont think it is believing and then rejecting but not believing. As Jesus said in
Mark 16, whoever does not believe is condemned.
 
Ammi said:
Is there any support from Church Teaching that a person who has heard the Gospel message, but does not believe, can be saved?
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Yes. The Gospel itself is very clear… Consider 1 Peter 4 for instance…

*Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. 2 As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you. 5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.*
 
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EndTimes said:
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit .*
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I dont think this is about those who dont believe but the place where the souls of the dead who believed in His coming and were obedient to God are. “He descended into hell”.
 
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Ammi said:
Yes, of course. Then, on the road to Damascus, he was given a special grace… a revelation, and believed. He was initially saved when he believed, and no longer rejected Jesus.
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Ahh, but you claimed that the Scripture you quoted means that lack of belief in preaching equals condemnation. Saul lacked belief in the apostolic preaching he witnessed. If your interpretation is correct, then Saul was condemned. (He was not. Therefore, your interpretation is faulty. QED.)
MagdalenaRita said:
He was condemning himself until he chose to believe and obey
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That’s not what Ammi is claiming.
Ammi said:
Read the parable of the Sower. It’s the only parable that Jesus explains (I believe).
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You’re mistaken, I’m afraid. Take a look at Mark 4:34. Jesus explained all his parables to his disciples (apostles).
MagdalenaRita said:
I dont think this is about those who dont believe
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🤦‍♂️
There are none so blind…
 
Can someone who rejects the Gospel be saved? All I know is I am not going to test that out to see if I might be saved by rejecting the Gospel.
 
Gorgias said:
There are none so blind…
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That doesn’t say anything except insult, so what would be the point.

By the way the reason I made the comment about that Bible verse in 1 Peter 4 is because that is what Haydock Catholic Bible commentary says it means.
 
Gorgias said:
Ahh, but you claimed that the Scripture you quoted means that lack of belief in preaching equals condemnation. Saul lacked belief in the apostolic preaching he witnessed. If your interpretation is correct, then Saul was condemned. (He was not. Therefore, your interpretation is faulty.)
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Yes, we can be in a state of condemnation. Paul said Peter “stood condemned” for his behavior. Turning in belief and repentance is forgiveness and salvation. Likewise, Paul stood condemned, until he believed and turned to follow Jesus.
That’s not what Ammi is claiming.
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He was condemned, until he turned to believe. I never said final judgment. Jesus said He did not come to judge, but to save. Though His Word will judge on the last day.
Ammi said:
Read the parable of the Sower. It’s the only parable that Jesus explains (I believe).
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You’re mistaken, I’m afraid. Take a look at Mark 4:34. Jesus explained all his parables to his disciples (apostles).
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We only have one explanation of a parable from Him. That is what I meant! Yes Gorgias, Jesus told His disciples in secret. I cant exactly refer someone to read explanations that we dont have, right?
 
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If they have good reasons to not accept it. Let’s say someone hears the Gospel, reads more about it and it makes no sense to them and seems made up to them… The good thing to do then would be to reject it as false. That’s much better than accepting a lie(or what the person believes is a lie)
 
Gorgias said:
We both keep talking past each other, so I think you’re right.
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Code: 
  (no wink)
I mean what was the point of your comment about none so blind. It said nothing except insulting my comment on 1 Peter 4.
 
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And what was the relative passage to your point? Your point was that to be condemned for disbelief, means someone MUST “accept it as the truth” first, then reject it.

Please provide Church Teaching that explains this understanding. I will NOT play into your unfruitful arguements until you do so.
 
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Ammi said:
Please provide Church Teaching that explains this understanding
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Let’s review: you presented Scripture and your personal interpretation of it. I responded that Church teaching disagreed with your interpretation. You asked that I provide that Church teaching. I did so. Now you’re asking for Church teaching that explains that Church teaching? And when I do so, will you ask for Church teaching to explain the Church teaching that explains the Church teaching?

I’m afraid you’re mischaracterizing whose arguments are unfruitful. You might wish to continue playing that game, but I’ll defer. Have a wonderful evening. 😉
 
You provided no Teaching that supported your interpretation. Please refrain from this thread.
 
Ammi said:
You provided no Teaching that supported your interpretation.
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Again, that’s just your personal opinion. I’d advise that you read up on the subject a bit more thoroughly. One book that might be of interest (but which I suspect that you might reject out-of-hand) is Sullivan’s Salvation Outside the Church?: Tracing the History of the Catholic Response. Other valuable resources might be good analyses of the teachings of Vatican II. I would also recommend you read Ratzinger’s Dominus Iesus, especially beginning at #20.
Ammi said:
Please refrain from this thread.
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:roll_eyes:
 
MagdalenaRita said:
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit .*
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Actually, in 1 Peter 3 - it spells it out. .

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water
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This may be those who were not damned to Hell, but awaited the Gospel time.

They may have had the opportunity to believe and be saved.
 
EndTimes said:
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
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Ammi:
This may be those who were not damned to Hell, but awaited the Gospel time.

They may have had the opportunity to believe and be saved.
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So, yes, according to Catholic Bible commentary, this is referring to those who were not saved by the ark but by repenting before they perished in the flood.

In all charity, I don’t see where St. Peter is saying you can be saved without belief or by rejecting the Gospel
 
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