Can someone who supports abortion go to heaven?

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You nailed it, THEY REFUSE to accept what is right. NOT LISTENING is not ignorance, that is pride. I can not judge a non Catholic, but any Catholic that supports abortion, they know better!
 
HSTV said:
If someone has good intentions when being pro-choice, can this person go to heaven?
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As long as a person dies in a state of sanctifying grace there will be heaven. Council of Florence (from the Bull Laetentur coeli, July 6, 1439) states:
  • And that the souls of those, who after the reception of baptism have incurred no stain of sin at all, and also those, who after the contraction of the stain of sin whether in their bodies, or when released from the same bodies, as we have said before, are purged, are immediately received into heaven, and see clearly the one and triune God Himself just as He is, yet according to the diversity of merits, one more perfectly than another. Moreover, the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds.
 
HSTV said:
the feminists who I know are pro-choice studies in Catholic Schools so I think they are not invincibly ignorant.
Some of them are even form Catholic/Protestant families… how could they be invincible ignorant?
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I don’t think trying to figure out who will/won’t go to Heaven is a good use of your time. Ultimately, it’s up to God and only God knows. Just do the best you can and pray for everyone else.
 
HSTV said:
If someone has good intentions when being pro-choice, can this person go to heaven?

There are people who support abortion because they do not want the child to suffer in this world and to be poor.

So in this case, is it still a sin to be pro-choice, when you care about the well being of that child that will suffer in this world?

ps. I am pro-life, I am just curious/concerned to know where my pro-choice friends are standing
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Never understood this excuse for abortion.

Parents have 3 young kids and then both lose their jobs. Putting the family in financial peril. This logic says it’s ok to kill their kids because they will be in poverty.
 
The ugliness of this ignorance doesnt stop with being ignorant of the fact it is a baby. It also extends to the idea poor or disabled people shouldnt live. Its sick, unholy and hard to believe it is just simple ignorance.
 
In order for sin to be mortal, it must meet the three conditions.

Serious sin, you know it is a sin, you do it on purpose/without coercion.

Sin is the act of abortion, knowing that act is sinful and doing it on purpose without coercion.
 
LawyersGunsAndMoney said:
You’re right, that was probably too strong. I’ll amend to “it’s possible that lack of full knowledge can mitigate sinfulness.”
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As this is probably the most publicly talked about moral issue and sin by the Church and lay people I do not believe any Catholic could claim they didn’t know abortion is a sin of grave matter.
 
That is for God to decide. We are not to judge souls.

Be loving and kind to everyone, love your enemies and do good to them.
 
I suppose this depends on why the view is held.

If they simply are unaware, then come final judgement they will be able to put the erroneous belief aside.
If they are in rebellion, it will be much harder for them.
 
These questions pertaining to an individual person’s standing before God are always hypothetical and delve into mysteries beyond our determination. We can go round and round in hypothetical discussion.

Ok…so the question Christ poses to each of us is, how are we going to live? Are we going to live as moral minimalists? Looking for excuses? Dwelling in ignorant “bliss”? Or we going to love his people, especially the most vulnerable.

Being pro choice is extremely problematic for a Christian. We don’t proclaim anyone’s condemnation, but in this day and age, and on this issue, there is little wiggle room for ignorance and misplaced good intentions. It defies belief, literally.

I myself had to confront this issue in my own life. I held to all the prevarications we are talking about. But as I came to know Christ it became painfully evident that turning my back on the most vulnerable is in fact the road to hell.
 
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It is important to clarify what is meant by “supports abortion.” It is not an either-or situation. For example:
  1. Someone who performs an abortion, or encourages others to do so.
  2. Someone who has never been directly involved with abortion, but still believes the fetus is not human and not worthy of protection and that a woman has every right to terminate any pregnancy she wishes.
  3. Someone who believes a fetus is a human being, but that the needs of the mother outweigh the needs of that fetus.
  4. Someone who believes all lives are precious, but that it is not the role of government to protect the pre-born.
  5. Someone who believes it is the role of government to protect the pre-born, but that other issues are equally important when voting for people to run for office.
  6. Someone who believes all lives are precious and that it is the role of government to protect the pre-born, but who keeps this view private and does not act on it.
  7. Someone who believes that abortion is the most important issue, but does not believe a candidate can accomplish anything toward it, and so votes for someone else.
I have tried to arrange these in order of most-supportive of abortion to least-supportive of abortion. There is certainly a big difference between saying that someone from #1 is going to heaven vs. someone from #7 is going to heaven. So I’m not sure we can give the same answer to all 7 categories here.
 
HSTV said:
There are people who support abortion because they do not want the child to suffer in this world and to be poor.
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by this logic if someone kills a severely handicapped child then they aren’t guilty of the sin of murder either.
 
HSTV said:
There are people who support abortion because they do not want the child to suffer in this world and to be poor.
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No because that would mean that the value of human life is based on the economic status of that human life.
 
Well it’s always a sin to commit murder, but as you say if you are deluded as to whether it is murder or not… I would say murder is intrinsically evil so it’s a sin no matter what… but the mercy of God knows no bounds… so I see your point. The world and the devil and indeed people themselves have been deceived. It’s not possible to answer that because only God can know if they have been given the correct knowledge and turned from it themselves with full knowledge in which case their culpability would be high or if they have never even thought of the correct arguments, when it would be less. I saw on the recent UK March for life in London a pro-life speaker approached the Pro-choice campaigner on camera and asked them to move away from the loud chanting so she could hear her and offered her the chance to discuss her arguments and be listened too, so they could chat. The girl was all set to come when two of her fellow campaigners came over and pulled her back telling her not to go. She looked bewildered. I think it’s a complex thing and only God could decide as only he knows who has consciously turned away from his grace and who simply never knew. And even then, he will continually offer his mercy even and until the very last moment. Keep praying for your pro-choice friends and place them before God and ask for him to bring them into his mercy and convert their hearts. God bless them.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
  1. Someone who has never been directly involved with abortion, but still believes the fetus is not human and not worthy of protection and that a woman has every right to terminate any pregnancy she wishes.
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I am asking about these people.
 
HSTV said:
Then most abortists are not sinning, because most of them think it is something ‘‘good’’.
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We don’t know for sure how God will judge them. He will look at each case individually and make a determination.
It’s very dangerous to make a blanket statement that a whole group of people are going to Heaven or conversely are going to Hell. We simply don’t know.
It is however clear that deliberately killing babies in the womb is a very bad sin. If people have such unrepented sins on their soul at death, then they are dependent on the mercy of God, who will be sure to show them exactly how utterly wrong they were before he decides whether or not to be merciful.
 
HSTV said:
If someone has good intentions when being pro-choice, can this person go to heaven?

There are people who support abortion because they do not want the child to suffer in this world and to be poor.

So in this case, is it still a sin to be pro-choice, when you care about the well being of that child that will suffer in this world?

ps. I am pro-life, I am just curious/concerned to know where my pro-choice friends are standing
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The question is will anti-choice people who harass pregnant women seeking abortions, make life even more miserable for them and even try to jail them, can such people ever go to heaven?

Actually, I believe most people eventually go to heaven anyway. But I also believe in reincarnation.

So I am quite sure, all active anti-choice men who make life difficult for such women, will be born as women themselves in their next life.
 
openmind77 said:
Actually, I believe most people eventually go to heaven anyway. But I also believe in reincarnation.
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I would gently suggest that both of these beliefs have set your credibility level to just about zero with the average faithful Catholic participating on this forum, as the Church teaches neither thing.
 
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