Can someone who supports abortion go to heaven?

[TULIPed]

When it comes to intentions - the sad story of Uzzah and the ark comes to mind. I’m curious how we might interpret Uzzah’s intentions in light of the OP’s question. Is it applicable? What might this story say to us today?

2 Samuel 6:1-7

The Ark Brought to Jerusalem
6 David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. 2 And David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale-judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name of the Lord of hosts who sits enthroned on the cherubim. 3 And they carried the ark of God on a new cart and brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. And Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, were driving the new cart, 4 with the ark of God, and Ahio went before the ark.

Uzzah and the Ark
5 And David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals. 6 And when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. 7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah, and God struck him down there because of his error, and he died there beside the ark of God.

 

[goout]

When it comes to intentions - the sad story of Uzzah and the ark comes to mind. I’m curious how we might interpret Uzzah’s intentions in light of the OP’s question. Is it applicable? What might this story say to us today?

2 Samuel 6:1-7

The Ark Brought to Jerusalem
6 David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. 2 And David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale-judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name of the Lord of hosts who sits enthroned on the cherubim. 3 And they carried the ark of God on a new cart and brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. And Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, were driving the new cart, 4 with the ark of God, and Ahio went before the ark.

Uzzah and the Ark
5 And David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals. 6 And when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. 7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah, and God struck him down there because of his error, and he died there beside the ark of God.

Can’t make the connection.
Help!

 

[openmind77]

openmind77:

goout:

openmind77:

The question is will anti-choice people

Help me out here, I catch on slowly.
What/who are anti-choice people?

Sorry about your slowness. Anti-choice people are those who don’t think people should be able to choose what they wish to do with their own bodies and its contents.

Really?
Give me an example of people who won’t allow pregnant women to vacate their bowel and bladder.
thanks.

I do catch on slowly, really. thanks for your patience.

I did not say they stop pregnant women from doing everything. But certain things like taking pills, for instance mifepristone etc. There are such people who have difficulty minding their own business.

 

[TULIPed]

The OP’s fundamental question is (I think), “Can good intentions offset a sinful act?”. If ever there was a case of “good intentions”, it seems to me that Uzzah’s story is at the top of the list. Uzzah’s intentions - and I would argue, even his actions were, prima facie, “good”, no? After all - he was trying to keep the Ark from falling off the wagon. And he was dealt with harshly in spite of his good intentions.

 

[goout]

goout:

openmind77:

goout:

openmind77:

The question is will anti-choice people

Help me out here, I catch on slowly.
What/who are anti-choice people?

Sorry about your slowness. Anti-choice people are those who don’t think people should be able to choose what they wish to do with their own bodies and its contents.

Really?
Give me an example of people who won’t allow pregnant women to vacate their bowel and bladder.
thanks.

I do catch on slowly, really. thanks for your patience.

I did not say they stop pregnant women from doing everything. But certain things like taking pills, for instance mifepristone etc. There are such people who have difficulty minding their own business.

People are forcing women to stop taking legal medications? Wow!

Had no idea. Do tell please I’d like to be well informed.

and I am a little confused cause you moved from

Anti-choice people are those who don’t think people should be able to choose what they wish to do with their own bodies and its contents

…
to the medication issue.

Am I confused?

 

[openmind77]

I’d say the anti-choicers are actually the ones who verbally threaten and harass teenagers and older women on social media for protesting quietly at abortion clinics or roundhouse kick pro life women for being pro life. Some people don’t like the choice to be pro life it seems.

I am not here to defend anybody who threatens etc. But those women who seek abortion are hardly threatening anyone, They are trying keep as quiet and unnoticeable as possible.

 

[goout]

Sbee0:

I’d say the anti-choicers are actually the ones who verbally threaten and harass teenagers and older women on social media for protesting quietly at abortion clinics or roundhouse kick pro life women for being pro life. Some people don’t like the choice to be pro life it seems.

I am not here to defend anybody who threatens etc. But those women who seek abortion are hardly threatening anyone, They are trying keep as quiet and unnoticeable as possible.

ok on the issue of abortion, a human being is killed, and that should fit the definition of a threat in just about any vocabulary.

What are we missing here?

 

[openmind77]

…Had no idea. Do tell please I’d like to be well informed.

and I am a little confused cause you moved from
…
to the medication issue.

Am I confused?

Read the news.

 

[goout]

goout:

…Had no idea. Do tell please I’d like to be well informed.

and I am a little confused cause you moved from
…
to the medication issue.

Am I confused?

Read the news.

I do. I an asking for you to help me understand. Can we talk?

 

[Sbee0]

Sbee0:

I’d say the anti-choicers are actually the ones who verbally threaten and harass teenagers and older women on social media for protesting quietly at abortion clinics or roundhouse kick pro life women for being pro life. Some people don’t like the choice to be pro life it seems.

I am not here to defend anybody who threatens etc. But those women who seek abortion are hardly threatening anyone, They are trying keep as quiet and unnoticeable as possible.

Ok but I’m also not speaking in hypotheticals, these things actually happened. The anti choice label is freely thrown around but it may not mean what many people think it means.

 

[openmind77]

I do. I an asking for you to help me understand. Can we talk?

Get someone else to help you. I wouldn’t want to confuse you further

 

[openmind77]

openmind77:

Sbee0:

I’d say the anti-choicers are actually the ones who verbally threaten and harass teenagers and older women on social media for protesting quietly at abortion clinics or roundhouse kick pro life women for being pro life. Some people don’t like the choice to be pro life it seems.

I am not here to defend anybody who threatens etc. But those women who seek abortion are hardly threatening anyone, They are trying keep as quiet and unnoticeable as possible.

Ok but I’m also not speaking in hypotheticals, these things actually happened. The anti choice label is freely thrown around but it may not mean what many people think it means.

I am sure they happens. Just as women who seek abortion are actually being harassed, people are standing in their way or yelling things at them (depending on the state, you can get away with such things).

 

[goout]

Sbee0:

I’d say the anti-choicers are actually the ones who verbally threaten and harass teenagers and older women on social media for protesting quietly at abortion clinics or roundhouse kick pro life women for being pro life. Some people don’t like the choice to be pro life it seems.

I am not here to defend anybody who threatens etc. But those women who seek abortion are hardly threatening anyone, They are trying keep as quiet and unnoticeable as possible.

Ok so is killing someone a threat? The abortion ends the life of a unique human being.
Can you explain how this is not a threat?

I know you can do it.

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

But those women who seek abortion are hardly threatening anyone

The most telling sentence ever written on CAF…

 

[openmind77]

openmind77:

Sbee0:

I’d say the anti-choicers are actually the ones who verbally threaten and harass teenagers and older women on social media for protesting quietly at abortion clinics or roundhouse kick pro life women for being pro life. Some people don’t like the choice to be pro life it seems.

I am not here to defend anybody who threatens etc. But those women who seek abortion are hardly threatening anyone, They are trying keep as quiet and unnoticeable as possible.

Ok so is killing someone a threat? The abortion ends the life of a unique human being.
Can you explain how this is not a threat?

I know you can do it.

If you were using my body as a host for survival and I asked that you be removed from my body, I am not threatening you at all.

 

[rosejmj]

I think so, but of course only God knows. I wouldn’t judge anyone, especially when they have good intentions. If they have good intentions I think they are less culpable if they are culpable at all. Also supporting abortion is different than actively participating in an abortion. You may think the act or support is wrong, but whether or not they are guilty is between them and God.

 

[HSTV]

I am sure they happens. Just as women who seek abortion are actually being harassed, people are standing in their way or yelling things at them (depending on the state, you can get away with such things).

people are yelling at them because they are murderers.

 

[FCS]

God gave us the 10 Commandments not to restrict us but so that we could be truly free and happy- always remember that He loves us and wants the best for us.

 

[FCS]

True, but as St Francis de Sales said:

“You can win more converts with a spoonful of honey than a barrelful of vinegar.”

 

[FCS]

It’s not just removal though, it’s actively killing someone. Doing something for the purpose and intention of killing someone (abortion) is wrong, I suggest looking into the three things that make an Act moral. The ends don’t justify the means.