Can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

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Objectively, can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

Personally, I don’t see how it is possible but I am looking to get other opinions or Church teaching if possible? Primarily Church teachings! The main reason I hold this thought is because of the state our Blessed Mother Mary was in all her life as the new Arc of the Covenant. Likewise, our bodies are a tabernacle of the Lord. Since we must be purified and perfected to be in the presence of the Father, I would think that we would have to be in a state of grace for the Holy Spirit to reside in us. Christ also said that if we abide in Him, then He will abide in us. We believe in circumincession, so how can a person in mortal sin have God dwell in them. I don’t deny that grace still works in our lives, if in this state.

Can some of my brothers or sisters help me out with this one?

Pax Christi
 
This was actually a question St. Teresa of Jesus had; she was first wrongly instructed that God does not dwell within the soul of a person in the state of moral sin, but a more learned priest assured her that, yes, God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) by virtue of His Power is within the soul sustaining it in existence.

Here is her description of the soul in grace and one in sin:
". . .just as all the streams that flow from a crystal-clear fount are also clear, the works of the soul in grace, because they proceed from this fount of life, in which the soul is planted like a tree, are most pleasing in the eyes of both God and man. There would be no freshness, no fruit, if it were not for this fount sustaining the tree, preventing it from drying up, and causing it to produce good fruit. Thus in the case of a soul that through its own fault withdraws from this fount and plants itself in a place where the water is black and foul-smelling, everything that flows from it is equally wretched and filthy.
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“It should be kept in mind here that the fount, the shining sun that is in the center of the soul, does not lose its beauty and splendor; it is always present in the soul, and nothing can take away its loveliness. But if a black cloth is placed over a crystal that is in the sun, obviously the sun’s brilliance will have no effect on the crystal even though the sun is shining on it,” The Interior Castle, I:2
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Makes sense that the Holy Spirit could be found in a soul outside of sanctifying grace. Otherwise, how could that soul ever be repentant?
 
FCEGM said:
This was actually a question St. Teresa of Jesus had; she was first wrongly instructed that God does not dwell within the soul of a person in the state of moral sin, but a more learned priest assured her that, yes, God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) by virtue of His Power is within the soul sustaining it in existence.

Here is her description of the soul in grace and one in sin:

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Interesting. I will have to ponder this one. Do you know if any other writings concerning this matter?

Pax Christi
 
I wonder if the word “dwell” isn’t too strong in this case. Perhaps a better word could’ve been “affect” such as Can the Holy Spirit still have an affect on a person in a state of mortal sin?

I think that answer is obviously yes. What draws the repentant sinner back to confession, even when they’ve been away from the sacraments for decades? We call it a nudge from God or the workings of the Holy Spirit. I don’t remember exactly where I heard this but a priest said that blessings can build up on a person that is in a state of mortal sin, but it doesn’t have its full effect until that person receives absolution from a priest and returns to a state of grace.

I have to believe that the Holy Spirit can still have some affect on a person even when they are at their lowest and most mired in sin. Afterall God’s works and majesty are more powerful than anything we or the devil can put up as an obstacle.

ChadS
 
The important difference is that we don’t earn merit while we are in the state of mortal sin.

For instance, the Holy Spirit can still move me to do something good, but I would not be doing something virtuous and my soul would not increase in holiness because I am in the state of mortal sin.
 
shocktrooper said:
Interesting. I will have to ponder this one. Do you know if any other writings concerning this matter?

Pax Christi
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This from Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma addresses the principle:
“Since the time of [Peter Lombard] theologians more closely determine the omnipresence of God as a presence according to power (per potentiam-dynamic presence), according to knowledge (per praesentiam sive scientiam-ideal presence), and according to essence (per essentiam-essential or substantial presenc). Through this essence He is present substantially in all things, including the created spiritual essences (angels, demons, human souls), as the immediate origin of their existence.”
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“. . .in addition to this general, natural, presence of God, there is also a special supernatural presence or indwelling of God, by the supernatural efficacy of His grace, in the soul of the just man (John 12:23; 1 Cor. 3:16; 6:10). . .”
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So it seems like the consensus thus far is that the answer is “yes”. I was looking at it from a Marian angle but I guess I used a faulty lens since no one on earth, minus our Lord, was or is perfect like the Blessed Mother Mary. Even if in a state of grace, we are still imperfect.

God bless. Thanks for the responses.
 
shocktrooper said:
So it seems like the consensus thus far is that the answer is “yes”. I was looking at it from a Marian angle but I guess I used a faulty lens since no one on earth, minus our Lord, was or is perfect like the Blessed Mother Mary. Even if in a state of grace, we are still imperfect.

God bless. Thanks for the responses.
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Mary and her life is certainly a strong model for any of us to hope to emulate. I can understand why you’d want to look to her. I think I read in Scott Hahn’s “Hail Holy Queen” that the words we so often see and hear translated from the Greek as “full of grace” doesn’t really have the same oomph it does in the orginal. According to him and other Biblical scholars I’ve seen the word mean more accurately something akin to “super abundantly” or has a “super abundance” of grace. This seems like way more grace than is typically available to the average believer.

ChadS
 
What the CCC says is opposite what people have been saying here. The person loses sanctifying grace (meaning sharing in the life of the Trinity). I think that is pretty straightforward. That means the Holy Spirit does not dwell in the soul of a person living in mortal sin. The Holy Spirit can work to have the person confess such sin, but it remains in the person’s free will to confess the evil he/she has done and to receive forgiveness. After that, the Holy Spirit will return to share the life of the Trinity in the person’s soul.
 
stmichael19 said:
What the CCC says is opposite what people have been saying here. The person loses sanctifying grace (meaning sharing in the life of the Trinity). I think that is pretty straightforward. That means the Holy Spirit does not dwell in the soul of a person living in mortal sin. The Holy Spirit can work to have the person confess such sin, but it remains in the person’s free will to confess the evil he/she has done and to receive forgiveness. After that, the Holy Spirit will return to share the life of the Trinity in the person’s soul.
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That is the position that I had originally and am still on the fence. It seems like there is always some presence of God, otherwise we would cease to exist, but the Holy Spirit seems to be something additional in my opinion. I agree that if you are in mortal sin, you have no life in you; thus it is hard to believe that the Holy Spirit can be in you. The Holy Spirit seems to be our saving grace and it seems clear from Scripture that you can be without it. But I am by no means an expert on this.

Pax Christi.
 
shocktrooper said:
Do you know if any other writings concerning this matter?
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Christ taught us He would never leave or forsake us … Heb. 13:5 … for he has said, “I WILL NEVER LEAVE NOR FORSAKE YOU.”

So it is written … so it is promised & guaranteed, by the one who cannot lie !

You can come down off the fence now 🙂
 
brb3 said:
Christ taught us He would never leave or forsake us … Heb. 13:5 … for he has said, “I WILL NEVER LEAVE NOR FORSAKE YOU.”

So it is written … so it is promised & guaranteed, by the one who cannot lie !

You can come down off the fence now 🙂
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But isn’t leaving a little different from dwelling inside of you?
 
brb3 said:
Nope !
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So if someone dies in mortal sin and the Holy Spirit is in them, then what happens to the Holy Spirit when that person dies? Does the Holy Spirit stay in that person’s soul and escort them to hell or does He depart from that person upon death?

Pax Christi.
 
I find it repugnant the idea that the Holy Spirit comes and goes. I would like to believe that the Holy Ghost is conferred upon all that are baptised, and is then sealed in those people, only departing if the person dies in final impenitence.

I cannot imagine a single valid idea to suggest that the Holy Ghost - He that moves us and reveals to us God - suddenly departs at the moment of mortal sin, but nevertheless ***shouts at us from afar ***to repent.

No. I say He, the Holy Ghost, is in all the baptised to the point of death, irrespective of the state of our soul.
 
Tannhauser said:
I find it repugnant the idea that the Holy Spirit comes and goes. I would like to believe that the Holy Ghost is conferred upon all that are baptised, and is then sealed in those people, only departing if the person dies in final impenitence.

I cannot imagine a single valid idea to suggest that the Holy Ghost - He that moves us and reveals to us God - suddenly departs at the moment of mortal sin, but nevertheless ***shouts at us from afar ***to repent.

No. I say He, the Holy Ghost, is in all the baptised to the point of death, irrespective of the state of our soul.
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I don’t think depart would be a good word to use. It would be better to say “cast out” and then “welcomed back”. I think He would always be at our door or already inside. How can we ever be in a state of broken relationship with God if the third Person of the Trinity is always in us? I don’t find the fact that the Holy Spirit returns upon repentance to be repugnant at all. We always have to invite Christ into our lives; He does not just come on in and stay plopped on our sofa when He is being asked to leave by us sinning mortally. Am I really wrong in thinking this? Do we really believe that God can dwell in an impure vessel? Why would receiving the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin be an even bigger sin? I find my question about the Holy Spirit dwelling in a person in mortal sin to be the same situation as when Jesus, via the Eucharist comes under our roof. I know the Eucharist remains His BBS&D regardless of my situation but it is considered sacrilege, is it not? Also, the Eucharist does not remain with us always, it stays with us for less than 30 minutes.

Pax Christi.
 
Tannhauser said:
No. I say He, the Holy Ghost, is in all the baptised to the point of death, irrespective of the state of our soul.
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Yes, the unpardonable sin … is to reject the Holy Spirit, that continually stirs within us. To continually ‘quench’ the H.S. is of our choice/will … not Gods. Scripture teaches the Good Shepherd & Church Triumphant are constantly at work … seeking the strays from the flock.
 
shocktrooper said:
I don’t think depart would be a good word to use.
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Perhaps ‘neglect’, or ‘ignore’ , or temporarily ‘lost’ ? Once one is Baptized … they are a new creation IN CHRIST.

Peter sinned, David sinned … yet they promptly repented ! The longer we wait to repent … the harder it gets to do so. The hot Fire of the H.S. slowly dies down to only a small flicker, then only a coal covered in ashes and no longer visible. Yet, a gust of wind, a trial, a hardship … will bring about contrite confession/repentance, and the coal of fire will ignite into a burning flame again.
 
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